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Posted: 7/16/2015 1:38:58 PM EDT
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AR15 with a del-ton mid-length heavy barrel kit I built myseklf (yeah, I know, not a big brand, but it has been extremely reliable as long as I don't put the hammer spring back on backwards again). Before optics my rifle is 7.8 pounds ish. I replaced the handguard with a 9" quad rail that actually is lighter than the original handguard.
with a Troy battlesight, primary arms 2.5x ACSS scope (15.5 oz), and a cheap vertical foregrip/deployable bipod it weighs 8.8 whopping pounds. |
| I agree, while I prefer a lighter rifle, it's more about balance in the long run. If your happy with the weight and the balance then don't worry about it. If it's turns out it's too heavy then you can replace the barrel with a lighter profile or send your barrel off to someone like ADCO and have them turn it down to a light profile. |
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mid length (adds weight over carbine)
heavy barrel (adds lots of weight over carbine) Are you comparing it to the lightweight rifle thread? (where those rifles are 5#-6# easily - most of them are carbines) the more you use it & carry it the lighter it will get.. (seemingly of course) |
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mid length (adds weight over carbine) heavy barrel (adds lots of weight over carbine) Are you comparing it to the lightweight rifle thread? (where those rifles are 5#-6# easily - most of them are carbines) the more you use it & carry it the lighter it will get.. (seemingly of course) Wouldn't a mid-length be lighter? It would on a government profile as the skinny part under the handguards is longer. |
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mid length (adds weight over carbine) How would the mid-length gun be heavier than a carbine? The only difference would be the slightly longer gas tube, which I doubt the weight difference matters. If they both have the gov-profile barrel, the mid length would actually be lighter, due to the LW barrel profile under the HG has been increased on the middy gun. |
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Sounds normal, backup sights, bipod, etc all add weight. A heavy barrel starts you at a heavier base weight.
I was happy when my last one came in under 6 pounds bare, then sights, a PA micro dot, a light, and sling and I'm just over 7 1/2. That one has a Spikes 14.5 lightweight barrel. I would personally never go with a heavy barrel again except for my precision rifle, or if I had some other special use in mind. It is all personal preference though, balance and functionality need to figure in as much as the weight for me. |
| Yeah, the profile of the barrel is the biggest issue if you feel it's too heavy. There's just no getting around the fact that HBAR's are heavy and make an AR feel front heavy. I've fondled many a 20" hbar and I was always blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, that's too heavy. I have too many HBARs too. My middie recce is also an hbar and I'm not overly fond of the balance with an adjustable stock. The upside is that HBAR's usually allow you to shoot longer with less worry about shifting POI. And may be a bit more accurate because they are stiffer than a skinny barrel. However, skinny barrels can be accurate too. |
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Wouldn't a mid-length be lighter? Quoted:
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the more you use it & carry it the lighter it will get.. (seemingly of course) Wouldn't a mid-length be lighter? Quoted:
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mid length (adds weight over carbine) How would the mid-length gun be heavier than a carbine? mid weight rifles have longer hand guards (which weigh more than a carbine length handguard of the same length) mid length heavy barrel weighs more than a carbine length heavy barrel.. I can't think of an apples to apples comparison where a mid length system would weigh less than a comparable carbine length system Quoted:
If they both have the gov-profile barrel, the mid length would actually be lighter, due to the LW barrel profile under the HG has been increased on the middy gun. First of all, OP said he has a mid length heavy barrel, but i'll entertain your dribble anyway.. (next time read the OP) go grab two and weigh them.. mid length govt barrels are lighter than carbine length barrels, but the longer tube and the longer handguard more than make up for it.. |
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As others have said, yes it's a little portly but that can be fine. And it will seemingly get lighter the more you handle it.
Balance is king. I have that same Del-Ton middy HBAR upper on a basic waffle stock lower and it is overall much lighter than my M4 carbine barreled upper on a SOPMOD stock lower with an Aimpoint PRO. But the M4 is MUCH handier. I can hold it one-handed doing mag drills far more easily because of the better balance. |
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go grab two and weigh them.. mid length govt barrels are lighter than carbine length barrels, but the longer tube and the longer handguard more than make up for it..
You sure about that? I don't have one of either type to know and weigh. That would be interesting to see. standard hg's don't seem very heavy to me. Yet metal in the barrel makes a big difference. And the gas tube weighing that much more? That seems hard to believe. You could be right though. Do you have uppers that are like this? |
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Quoted: http://<a href=http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo27/jakethomas1997/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20150716_104604_zps9hx9ux3r.jpg~original</a>" /> Here it is so you have a visual  Your rail doesn't seem even with the receiver.IIRC, a standard A2 is about 7.5-8lbs, so a midlength HBAR with accessories ought to be about the same. NBD. |
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A chrome-lined HBAR makes no sense. If it's gonna be carried a lot, then it needs to be light. I toted a Block II for over a year and it sucked hard after an hour or so. The only heavy barrels I put up with are stainless precision barrels. 
My block II is my baby. Probably pushing 12 lbs or so, but I still tote it around anyways. Not for the faint of heart tho. 
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Concerning the carbine vs middy weight comparison...lets compare "std" LW barrels apple to apple. A std LW carbine will absolutely be lighter then a LW middy, all other things being equal. The profile behind the gas block is thicker then in front of it. That of which, is just plain ol longer on the middy. The carbines total length has a longer percentage of that length, being in front of the GB where its thinner. Thats undeniable. Then add the slightly longer gas tube(just a few grams really), hand guards..AND..the weight bias somewhat farther out there(making it feel slightly more nose heavy)... Its heavier.
Yes, one can get an ultra light middy barrel like Faxon LW pencils with the very thin profiles front and back of the GB (I have the 14.5" pencil, myself. crazy light). But...if they made a comparable carbine barrel, it still would be lighter  .
IMO, the bench mark LW "pencil" barrel, the Colt 6720 16"(actually about 16.4". its longer then all my other 16" barrels), since its the same profile as the SP1 carbine, 20" SP1/M16A1, etc. Heres a new sample of such. 
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My block II is my baby. Probably pushing 12 lbs or so, but I still tote it around anyways. Not for the faint of heart tho. Quoted:
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A chrome-lined HBAR makes no sense. If it's gonna be carried a lot, then it needs to be light. I toted a Block II for over a year and it sucked hard after an hour or so. The only heavy barrels I put up with are stainless precision barrels.
My block II is my baby. Probably pushing 12 lbs or so, but I still tote it around anyways. Not for the faint of heart tho. I'm like you my hog gun in 6.8 is about 12.5 lbs. I love that rifle and have carried it all day before. The weight never bothers me it is very well balanced. |
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AR15 with a del-ton mid-length heavy barrel kit I built myseklf (yeah, I know, not a big brand, but it has been extremely reliable as long as I don't put the hammer spring back on backwards again). Before optics my rifle is 7.8 pounds ish. I replaced the handguard with a 9" quad rail that actually is lighter than the original handguard. with a Troy battlesight, primary arms 2.5x ACSS scope (15.5 oz), and a cheap vertical foregrip/deployable bipod it weighs 8.8 whopping pounds. http://www.smokecomposites.com/#!stocks/c6q4 |
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This was my first build at 17 back in 2014, and I knew nothing about rifles back then. I went for del-ton because they were the cheapest at the time (for building, as I could not legally purchase one yet) while still having the upper preassembled so I didn't have to waste time on torquing down a barrel.
About 1200 rounds later with the rifle (and going through a 2.5X then to micro dot, then back to 2.5X for no reason other than mind-changing and philosophy of use changing ), I have been pretty satisfied to clarify. Unfortunately I am between a rock and a hard place when it comes to testing out carrying my rifle, as I have nowhere to carry in Commufornia. Since I am going to school in California and will be starting the NROTC program this fall, I will be unable to move out of state for at least 4 years. I fear gun laws will change dramatically by then, and before dropping $300 on a new barrel that weighs 8- oz lighter I better pick up another few lowers.
Arizona/Nevada/Oregon here I come
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My block II is my baby. Probably pushing 12 lbs or so, but I still tote it around anyways. Not for the faint of heart tho. Quoted:
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A chrome-lined HBAR makes no sense. If it's gonna be carried a lot, then it needs to be light. I toted a Block II for over a year and it sucked hard after an hour or so. The only heavy barrels I put up with are stainless precision barrels.
My block II is my baby. Probably pushing 12 lbs or so, but I still tote it around anyways. Not for the faint of heart tho. Put in some 16 hour days with Jason Falla and get back with us on that. |
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http://<a href=http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo27/jakethomas1997/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20150716_104604_zps9hx9ux3r.jpg~original</a>" /> Here it is so you have a visual Personally, I'd lose that cheap VFG, and maybe lose the optic as well. Just use that rear Troy BUIS and rock on. I like irons and run rear BUIS' with A2 FSB's on all my 14.5" & 14.7" rifles. I even removed the variable powered scope on my Recce and run it just like my 14.5" middy's except it has a matching Troy front BUIS. But I'm old school and that's not for most people here. I'd rather have a TLR-1s or Surefire on my rifle in place of optics/vfg's etc to save weight. My go to 14.5" carbine... 
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hipower: you wrote: "IMO, the bench mark LW "pencil" barrel, (is) the Colt 6720 16"(actually about 16.4". its longer then all my other 16" barrels), since its the same profile as the SP1 carbine, 20" SP1/M16A1, etc"
Just curious, how much does your benchmark pencil barrel weigh? My 16" 6.8 ARP barrel is .700" both fore and aft of the GB, and weighs 28 oz. Getting that profile down to about .600" would take maybe another 8 oz off. Any smaller than that would compromise safety. Perhaps 5.56 barrels can go a little bit smaller, but in any event, 18 oz is about as light as one can expect for a useable 16" AR-15 barrel. For those who seek a lightweight tube, its fairly simple to have Adco or Ar15barrels reprofile a fat barrel to whatever diameters you want, but there is a tradeoff with accuracy on very light barrels. Typically, LW barrels shoot great for the first few rounds before they heat up, but that's OK for most hunting situations. BTW, the path to ultra lightweight AR rifles, outside of pistols and SBRs, is through careful selection of barrels, carriers, buffers and buttstocks. Adjustable gas is a necessary component, IMO. - CW http://ar15barrels.com/ http://www.smokecomposites.com/#!stocks/c6q4 |
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hipower: you wrote: "IMO, the bench mark LW "pencil" barrel, (is) the Colt 6720 16"(actually about 16.4". its longer then all my other 16" barrels), since its the same profile as the SP1 carbine, 20" SP1/M16A1, etc" Just curious, how much does your benchmark pencil barrel weigh? My 16" 6.8 ARP barrel is .700" both fore and aft of the GB, and weighs 28 oz. Getting that profile down to about .600" would take maybe another 8 oz off. Any smaller than that would compromise safety. Perhaps 5.56 barrels can go a little bit smaller, but in any event, 18 oz is about as light as one can expect for a useable 16" AR-15 barrel. For those who seek a lightweight tube, its fairly simple to have Adco or Ar15barrels reprofile a fat barrel to whatever diameters you want, but there is a tradeoff with accuracy on very light barrels. Typically, LW barrels shoot great for the first few rounds before they heat up, but that's OK for most hunting situations. BTW, the path to ultra lightweight AR rifles, outside of pistols and SBRs, is through careful selection of barrels, carriers, buffers and buttstocks. Adjustable gas is a necessary component, IMO. - CW http://ar15barrels.com/ http://www.smokecomposites.com/#!stocks/c6q4 To be honest, I've forgotten what the 6720 barrels wieghs(of course it comes with the barrel nut and FSB also). Concerning thickness, the Faxon pencils are noticeably thinner then the 6720 or my other .625 at the GB LW 16", a DD pencil(looks bascially identical to the 6720 profile)..in both front and behind the GB. I think the 14.5 middy is adverstised as 1.09lb , or 17.44oz(so your estimate sounds right on). Heres the Faxon 14.5 pencil in below pic. Note the seemingly huge step from both ends up to the .625 GB. The GB area is also shorter in length, so a GI type GB won't even fit. The front and rear section(closest to the GB) both "look" about the same thickness as the 1/2" threaded muzzle. If not, its pretty damn close. EDT:they claim 1.19lb for the 16" middy pencil, or 19.04oz. 
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Put in some 16 hour days with Jason Falla and get back with us on that. Quoted:
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A chrome-lined HBAR makes no sense. If it's gonna be carried a lot, then it needs to be light. I toted a Block II for over a year and it sucked hard after an hour or so. The only heavy barrels I put up with are stainless precision barrels.
My block II is my baby. Probably pushing 12 lbs or so, but I still tote it around anyways. Not for the faint of heart tho. Put in some 16 hour days with Jason Falla and get back with us on that. No thanks. I already get my workouts in on my own. |
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