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"Combat" Virtual Challenge/Competition Discussion - Military Clones and Non-Clones Welcome (Page 7 of 8)
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Wow. This was great! I can't score this thing but this looks great.
Iron sights and an old guy. 
Nice job 449, very good stuff. Glassless and all. Awesome. |
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That range looks awfully familiar.
ETA: BTW, this isn't the official COF. So scoring your run will only be for data at this point. But I'm sure you read that already. ETA2: This is rough. But I'm confident Augee will agree, and it saves Augee some work. He's a busy man! This is scored using method H. 449 Elapsed time -- 3.31.1 D. 10.8 -- Shots: 3 -- Penalty: 38s E. 5.2 -- Penalty: 3s D. 11.3 -- Shots: 3 -- Penalty: 43s E. 5.6 -- Penalty: 9s D. 9.6 -- Shots: 3 -- Penalty: 26s E. 5.5 -- Penalty: 7.5s D. 8.8 -- Shots: 3 -- Penalty: 18s E. 5.1 -- Penalty: 1.5s D. 13.5 -- Shots: 3 -- Penalty: 65s E. 5.7 -- Penalty: 10.5s D. 8 -- Shots: 4 -- Penalty: 10s E. 5.4 -- Penalty: 6s D. 6.7 -- Shots: 2 E. 5.2 -- Penalty: 3s D. 19.3 -- Shots: 6 -- Penalty: 123s E. 4.3 -- Penalty: 0s HITS: 28 Miss: 2 Elapsed time: 3.31.1 DT Penalties: 5:23 ET Penalties: 0:40.5 Combined Score: 9:34.6 - 1:00(Expert) = 8:34.6 <--- Great Job, and excellent shooting. Augee, are we doing penalties for firing less than 3 shots per bound? I know EVR asked about it earlier. But there wasn't a clear answer. |
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Xtreme762, thanks for scoring it.
Augee, I think it should be started from the prone, with a loaded rifle on safe. I would think if you can run around on your range in red status, you could start that way. Really a moot point though, if everyone starts the same way. The A4 I used was zero’d at 25M for 300M. It's been a year or more since I confirmed at 300 though. I knew I’d be 5 or 6 inches high at 100 yards, so my POA was at the base of the target. In closing with the target, I gradually adjusted my POA, this was not a conscious decision, I just did it. As I got closer, I aimed at the bottom 1/3rd of the target, then at 25 yards and 15 yards, I aimed center mass. Had I maintained my original POA at the base of the target the entire time, I'm pretty sure I would have more misses. Probably why I had so much vertical stringing, or heck maybe it was breathing. If you're using a 25 Meter zero, any deviation from dead center is going to be more at distance, which will cause misses. I thought about zeroing the rifle for 100 yards, but in the end I'm glad I didn't. I know this would've been a real gut-churner if I were wearing IBA with plates, a basic load, 2 canteens of water, and a ballistic helmet. Kudos to you for wearing it when you ran it. Finally, if this thing gets legs and grows, think of the potential. We could have team competitions. I know guys around here that would shoot it with one another. Squad and team events. It could be something hot like IDPA or IPSC. This could be the next great competitive craze. Thanks for taking the time to do this. It really got me energized. 449. |
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1} I have no clue how to read the score on this thing. How do you interpret 449's score? The scores in the right hand column next to the time schedule mean nothing to me. Also, if 449's score is over 14, it can't be "expert", can it?
I'm guessing I am not the only one who is confuzzled here. 2} RE: # shots. Original rule was that you must fire 3 shots within each 25 yard segment AND you must fire at least one for each prone. So you could fire one round each time you go prone IF you go prone three times w/in each 25 yards. Augee himself fired one round from prone. 3} We still don't have a ruling on what to do inside 15 yards. I vote all shooting ceases at 15 simply to prevent mag dumps with the barrel on the target. If that is allowed the whole thing is a waste. It is a little dubious as a scorable exercise to allow rifle shooting at 15....anything close makes it a joke. |
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?
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Originally Posted By EVR:
1} I have no clue how to read the score on this thing. How do you interpret 449's score? The scores in the right hand column next to the time schedule mean nothing to me. Also, if 449's score is over 14, it can't be "expert", can it? I'm guessing I am not the only one who is confuzzled here. 2} RE: # shots. Original rule was that you must fire 3 shots within each 25 yard segment AND you must fire at least one for each prone. So you could fire one round each time you go prone IF you go prone three times w/in each 25 yards. Augee himself fired one round from prone. 3} We still don't have a ruling on what to do inside 15 yards. I vote all shooting ceases at 15 simply to prevent mag dumps with the barrel on the target. If that is allowed the whole thing is a waste. It is a little dubious as a scorable exercise to allow rifle shooting at 15....anything close makes it a joke. 1) It's not complicated. Expert simply means he made more than 27 hits on the target. Thus giving him a 1:00 time advantage. SEE BELOW. 2) You're right. 3) This is something only Augee can rule on. So we'll have to wait till he can post. ETA: Do you mean the table to the right of the times table? Where it says AQT, IMT, and DEDUCT? 
Those are for the shooting portion of the COF. AQT stands for Army Qualification Table; IMT obviously stands for Individual Movement Technique(This COF), and DEDUCT stands for Deduction as in how much time to deduct for how many hits the shooter got. The only columns in that table that really need to be paid attention to are the IMT, and DEDUCT columns. As they're the columns that apply to this COF. |
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Originally Posted By xtreme762:
1) It's not complicated. Expert simply means he made more than 27 hits on the target. Thus giving him a 1:00 time advantage. SEE BELOW. 2) You're right. 3) This is something only Augee can rule on. So we'll have to wait till he can post. ETA: Do you mean the table to the right of the times table? Where it says AQT, IMT, and DEDUCT? http://imageshack.com/a/img912/6128/mCXhqG.png Those are for the shooting portion of the COF. AQT stands for Army Qualification Table; IMT obviously stands for Individual Movement Technique(This COF), and DEDUCT stands for Deduction as in how much time to deduct for how many hits the shooter got. The only columns in that table that really need to be paid attention to are the IMT, and DEDUCT columns. As they're the columns that apply to this COF. Originally Posted By xtreme762:
Originally Posted By EVR:
1} I have no clue how to read the score on this thing. How do you interpret 449's score? The scores in the right hand column next to the time schedule mean nothing to me. Also, if 449's score is over 14, it can't be "expert", can it? I'm guessing I am not the only one who is confuzzled here. 2} RE: # shots. Original rule was that you must fire 3 shots within each 25 yard segment AND you must fire at least one for each prone. So you could fire one round each time you go prone IF you go prone three times w/in each 25 yards. Augee himself fired one round from prone. 3} We still don't have a ruling on what to do inside 15 yards. I vote all shooting ceases at 15 simply to prevent mag dumps with the barrel on the target. If that is allowed the whole thing is a waste. It is a little dubious as a scorable exercise to allow rifle shooting at 15....anything close makes it a joke. 1) It's not complicated. Expert simply means he made more than 27 hits on the target. Thus giving him a 1:00 time advantage. SEE BELOW. 2) You're right. 3) This is something only Augee can rule on. So we'll have to wait till he can post. ETA: Do you mean the table to the right of the times table? Where it says AQT, IMT, and DEDUCT? http://imageshack.com/a/img912/6128/mCXhqG.png Those are for the shooting portion of the COF. AQT stands for Army Qualification Table; IMT obviously stands for Individual Movement Technique(This COF), and DEDUCT stands for Deduction as in how much time to deduct for how many hits the shooter got. The only columns in that table that really need to be paid attention to are the IMT, and DEDUCT columns. As they're the columns that apply to this COF. Thanks. That helps. But where would 449 stand in the ratings in the chart you posted? I think what people want to know is a simple final score for ranking. At this point I can't tell where 449 would place {i recognize his was a slick run but just for comparison}. |
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?
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He would be right behind you I do believe. But again don't quote me on that. Augee has the final word.
Yes 449's score was a slick run, and the above chart says "Full Kit". I used the most current scoring method just for comparison. Your slick run is in there too I think. |
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Originally Posted By xtreme762:
He would be right behind you I do believe. But again don't quote me on that. Augee has the final word. OK. So it appears the main thing to look for is DQ's and combined score. I'm headed up to run this thing again so I'll try to put into practice some of the recommendations and see where it goes. |
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?
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Shot it twice today.
First with my PSA. Rifle here: 
Target: 30 shots fired. 2 misses. Sucks cuz the group is good. This is really poor shooting to throw 2 when the group is otherwise sound; 
Video; https://youtu.be/539fh08Hr3Y Augee; the cof really needs a rule and protocol for close range. I really didn't know what to do so instead of a barrier, I just shot from kneeling, then ran to the target and touched it, then ran back to 100. Feels weird. I almost wonder if we should cease firing at 25 yards or something. Anyway, I tried something different. ************************************************************** Then, as promised, I shot this thing with my Russian M91/30 Mosin Nagant. Now I just got the stripper clips and didn't take the time to prep them. M/N strippers are sort of notorious hard loaders, but this was futile! I would have been better off with a bag of loose ammo. Otherwise, discounting the horrible down time spent trying to load the thing, it came off not too bad. 30 shots fired. 6 misses. Ammo was Prvi factory and it is a bit hot and the bolt locks up a bit as you can see when I had to smack the bolt open. My handloads at more moderate pressures will do better and I should be able to beat this time...if I prep my clips or use a bag! 
Rifle: 
Target. You can see a slight left drift. I need to tap the front sight a smidgen to the left and I think I should be able to get them all on the paper. Honestly, the torture it takes to load the magazine is really not conducive to a shooting cadence at all. Next time I will have to smoke my sights!! 
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2xUVxhrvI4 |
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?
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you have two of the same video. I was wanting to get a laugh at the bolt gun.
You got the concept much much better this go looked really clean. I don't like the end and the game concept of the last 15-25 meters as you mentioned. I think the idea is you are gonna get hit pretty hard with a penalty for that down time that you were shooting all those shots. It is tough to say but the accuracy afforded by being so close with the new scoring might make up for all that down time you had on the last area. I am hoping to get out and run it again tomorrow made the mistake of working legs today so tomorrow might not be fun. |
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Originally Posted By nickforney:
you have two of the same video. I was wanting to get a laugh at the bolt gun. You got the concept much much better this go looked really clean. I don't like the end and the game concept of the last 15-25 meters as you mentioned. I think the idea is you are gonna get hit pretty hard with a penalty for that down time that you were shooting all those shots. It is tough to say but the accuracy afforded by being so close with the new scoring might make up for all that down time you had on the last area. I am hoping to get out and run it again tomorrow made the mistake of working legs today so tomorrow might not be fun. Thanks and thanks for the headsup. I fixed the vid. I'd say open a beer and enjoy but it'll take more like a sixpack before you are done watching that one! 
Yeah, something has to be done with the last 25-15. Although..........as you say, maybe the thing has a built in offset as the down time is going to be terrible for that string so there is a disincentive to dumping a lot of rounds there and reloading and whatnot. I really didn't know what to do so I just did that. I gotta come up with a plan... 
There really is a bit of strategy brewing in this thing. |
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?
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I agree with both of you.
I propose we have a minimum number of bounds, and a requirement to shoot a minimum number or rounds on each bound. Like say 10 bounds in 100yds., and 3 shots on each bound. This doesn't take away from the objective of the COF, and it stops this type of "Gaming" from happening. At the LOA there should be a maximum stand off distance. Like say 15yds.. EVR; I'll score these for you in a bit. We'll see if the gaming at the LOA hurts your score, or not. Remember, every 1 second spent in defilade over 7 equals 10 seconds of penalty. |
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Originally Posted By xtreme762:
I agree with both of you. I propose we have a minimum number of bounds, and a requirement to shoot a minimum number or rounds on each bound. Like say 10 bounds in 100yds., and 3 shots on each bound. This doesn't take away from the objective of the COF, and it stops this type of "Gaming" from happening. At the LOA there should be a maximum stand off distance. Like say 15yds.. EVR; I'll score these for you in a bit. We'll see if the gaming at the LOA hurts your score, or not. Remember, every 1 second spent in defilade over 7 equals 10 seconds of penalty. Yeah, that overtime down close to the target is going to hurt and truthfully, as I am learning this thing and with the big target, I am better off shooting more at distance and shortening my bounds. The only thing keeping me from shooting more at 100 is TIME. But I can better add bounds and shoot a few rounds each. That is the trick. The heck with up close. Next time out {here's the open secret...} is as you say, lots of bounds and low number of shots at each. My problem is that as I get to the target, the ground is terrible and rough. I can see a blown ankle..... I do like touching the target at the end, tho, as it gives everybody the exact same spot to stop and turn around and head for home. Still experimenting... I wish I had my old Long Branch No 4 MK 1* Lee-Enfields. They would clean house in the bolt gun division of this course.
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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?
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Originally Posted By xtreme762:
I agree with both of you. I propose we have a minimum number of bounds, and a requirement to shoot a minimum number or rounds on each bound. Like say 10 bounds in 100yds., and 3 shots on each bound. This doesn't take away from the objective of the COF, and it stops this type of "Gaming" from happening. At the LOA there should be a maximum stand off distance. Like say 15yds.. EVR; I'll score these for you in a bit. We'll see if the gaming at the LOA hurts your score, or not. Remember, every 1 second spent in defilade over 7 equals 10 seconds of penalty. Don't wanna add more rules we already have a bunch. I we already have that you need to shoot 5 @ 100-75 5 @75-50 5 at 50-25 and 5 at 25-0. I was under the impression we were supposed to shoot 5 at the end for the counter attack correct? Maybe we just need to do 5 rounds on the initial contact to account for all 30 rounds that way. Way easier than counting bounds. The pistol part is a bit hazy to me still and I want to try it with pistol when I do. I will try and make it so I shoot 1 or 2 rounds trans pistol for 3 rounds or so for a turn around. The down time should probably stop when you go to pistol if you are doing that at LOA. If you are at limit of advance it is all violence of action at that point there is no getting down etc. |
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Originally Posted By nickforney:
Don't wanna add more rules we already have a bunch. I we already have that you need to shoot 5 @ 100-75 5 @75-50 5 at 50-25 and 5 at 25-0. I was under the impression we were supposed to shoot 5 at the end for the counter attack correct? Maybe we just need to do 5 rounds on the initial contact to account for all 30 rounds that way. Way easier than counting bounds. The pistol part is a bit hazy to me still and I want to try it with pistol when I do. I will try and make it so I shoot 1 or 2 rounds trans pistol for 3 rounds or so for a turn around. The down time should probably stop when you go to pistol if you are doing that at LOA. If you are at limit of advance it is all violence of action at that point there is no getting down etc. Originally Posted By nickforney:
Originally Posted By xtreme762:
I agree with both of you. I propose we have a minimum number of bounds, and a requirement to shoot a minimum number or rounds on each bound. Like say 10 bounds in 100yds., and 3 shots on each bound. This doesn't take away from the objective of the COF, and it stops this type of "Gaming" from happening. At the LOA there should be a maximum stand off distance. Like say 15yds.. EVR; I'll score these for you in a bit. We'll see if the gaming at the LOA hurts your score, or not. Remember, every 1 second spent in defilade over 7 equals 10 seconds of penalty. Don't wanna add more rules we already have a bunch. I we already have that you need to shoot 5 @ 100-75 5 @75-50 5 at 50-25 and 5 at 25-0. I was under the impression we were supposed to shoot 5 at the end for the counter attack correct? Maybe we just need to do 5 rounds on the initial contact to account for all 30 rounds that way. Way easier than counting bounds. The pistol part is a bit hazy to me still and I want to try it with pistol when I do. I will try and make it so I shoot 1 or 2 rounds trans pistol for 3 rounds or so for a turn around. The down time should probably stop when you go to pistol if you are doing that at LOA. If you are at limit of advance it is all violence of action at that point there is no getting down etc. No, it is 3 per bound and 3 at the end, too I think. you can shoot more if you want. i actually thought there was no dt penalty once you got within 25 yards. isn't that right? but xtreme762 says otherwise and he is probably right. somehow i thot dt stopped at 25 and then all shooting from there to the target only impacted total elapsed time. we gotta get a clean and clear set of rules going cuz i'm clueless what they are, now.
I avoided pistol because I am pretty sure I can shoot this thing with a pistol and do OK in that who cares if you miss in the long range portion, get close and dump two mags and run home and launch the last 3. I'm not using a pistol altho I'd be curious to try it. Maybe with my shoulder stocked Browning High Power....
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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?
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Originally Posted By nickforney:
Don't wanna add more rules we already have a bunch. I we already have that you need to shoot 5 @ 100-75 5 @75-50 5 at 50-25 and 5 at 25-0. I was under the impression we were supposed to shoot 5 at the end for the counter attack correct? Maybe we just need to do 5 rounds on the initial contact to account for all 30 rounds that way. Way easier than counting bounds. The pistol part is a bit hazy to me still and I want to try it with pistol when I do. I will try and make it so I shoot 1 or 2 rounds trans pistol for 3 rounds or so for a turn around. The down time should probably stop when you go to pistol if you are doing that at LOA. If you are at limit of advance it is all violence of action at that point there is no getting down etc. Originally Posted By nickforney:
Originally Posted By xtreme762:
I agree with both of you. I propose we have a minimum number of bounds, and a requirement to shoot a minimum number or rounds on each bound. Like say 10 bounds in 100yds., and 3 shots on each bound. This doesn't take away from the objective of the COF, and it stops this type of "Gaming" from happening. At the LOA there should be a maximum stand off distance. Like say 15yds.. EVR; I'll score these for you in a bit. We'll see if the gaming at the LOA hurts your score, or not. Remember, every 1 second spent in defilade over 7 equals 10 seconds of penalty. Don't wanna add more rules we already have a bunch. I we already have that you need to shoot 5 @ 100-75 5 @75-50 5 at 50-25 and 5 at 25-0. I was under the impression we were supposed to shoot 5 at the end for the counter attack correct? Maybe we just need to do 5 rounds on the initial contact to account for all 30 rounds that way. Way easier than counting bounds. The pistol part is a bit hazy to me still and I want to try it with pistol when I do. I will try and make it so I shoot 1 or 2 rounds trans pistol for 3 rounds or so for a turn around. The down time should probably stop when you go to pistol if you are doing that at LOA. If you are at limit of advance it is all violence of action at that point there is no getting down etc. LOL, this list of rules is gonna be 2 pages long. I've read a shit ton of this thread, and have forgotten a lot of it. I don't remember reading a 5 shot at LOA rule. Really you wouldn't have to count bounds. Just rounds. 10 bounds with 3 rounds each equals 30 rounds. Or 9 bounds with 3 rounds equals 27 saving 3 for the final attack to equal 30.
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Originally Posted By xtreme762:
LOL, this list of rules is gonna be 2 pages long. I've read a shit ton of this thread, and have forgotten a lot of it. I don't remember reading a 5 shot at LOA rule. Really you wouldn't have to count bounds. Just rounds. 10 bounds with 3 rounds each equals 30 rounds. Or 9 bounds with 3 rounds equals 27 saving 3 for the final attack to equal 30.
Originally Posted By xtreme762:
Originally Posted By nickforney:
Originally Posted By xtreme762:
I agree with both of you. I propose we have a minimum number of bounds, and a requirement to shoot a minimum number or rounds on each bound. Like say 10 bounds in 100yds., and 3 shots on each bound. This doesn't take away from the objective of the COF, and it stops this type of "Gaming" from happening. At the LOA there should be a maximum stand off distance. Like say 15yds.. EVR; I'll score these for you in a bit. We'll see if the gaming at the LOA hurts your score, or not. Remember, every 1 second spent in defilade over 7 equals 10 seconds of penalty. Don't wanna add more rules we already have a bunch. I we already have that you need to shoot 5 @ 100-75 5 @75-50 5 at 50-25 and 5 at 25-0. I was under the impression we were supposed to shoot 5 at the end for the counter attack correct? Maybe we just need to do 5 rounds on the initial contact to account for all 30 rounds that way. Way easier than counting bounds. The pistol part is a bit hazy to me still and I want to try it with pistol when I do. I will try and make it so I shoot 1 or 2 rounds trans pistol for 3 rounds or so for a turn around. The down time should probably stop when you go to pistol if you are doing that at LOA. If you are at limit of advance it is all violence of action at that point there is no getting down etc. LOL, this list of rules is gonna be 2 pages long. I've read a shit ton of this thread, and have forgotten a lot of it. I don't remember reading a 5 shot at LOA rule. Really you wouldn't have to count bounds. Just rounds. 10 bounds with 3 rounds each equals 30 rounds. Or 9 bounds with 3 rounds equals 27 saving 3 for the final attack to equal 30.
I went back over the damn long thread and have no idea where I got the 5 round crap. I see 3 rounds. I did it that way when I did it and have always had it in my head that it was at least one bound for 3 rounds and a total of 5. oh well that is the way it should be so augee make it happen. "shoot 5 @ 100 for initial contact with 7 seconds from first shot....then 5 @ 100-75 5 @75-50 5 @ 50-25 and 5 at 25-0 make it back to the start and shoot 5 for counter attack at 100 yards in 7 seconds from first shot." That means 30 rounds you could shoot pistol at the loa point if you want inside of 15 yards where the bounding ends. Augee needs to stop doing other things make this happen and give a thumbs up so I can do it this way tomorrow. |
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Originally Posted By nickforney:"shoot 5 @ 100 for initial contact with 7 seconds from first shot....then 5 @ 100-75 5 @75-50 5 @ 50-25 and 5 at 25-0 make it back to the start and shoot 5 for counter attack at 100 yards in 7 seconds from first shot." That means 30 rounds you could shoot pistol at the loa point if you want inside of 15 yards where the bounding ends. Augee needs to stop doing other things make this happen and give a thumbs up so I can do it this way tomorrow. That sounds good. Add touching the target so some don't head home too soon and it's there. I measured today and found out my course adds close to 50 yards in extra running to get clear of the ditches and use smooth ground for part of it. I gotta find a smooth flat spot to run this. Maybe I'll set it up in the woods somewhere on the ranch. Or maybe it's time to borrow my neighbor's dozer... |
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?
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OK, guys, looking at nick's suggestions and thinking about it, how about this as a final set of rules;
Simplify the whole exercise to this set of standard rules; 1} Start at 100 yard line. Sprint to target and touch target, sprint back to 100 yd line. 2} Initial contact = 5 rounds 3} IMT to 25 yards. 4} From 25-15 no more than 5 rounds total may be fired, all must be fired from standing on the move. No shooting within 15 yards. 5} Touch target and sprint back to 100 yardline. 6} Counterattack at 100 = 5 rounds. Leave the rest up to the contestant. So the only rule restriction on the number of rounds is 5 rounds at start, no more than 5 rounds between 25-15 and 5 rounds at 100 finish. That leaves 15 for the IMT portion. If that is not enough, just make Initial Contact 3 rounds and Counterattack 3 rounds. Or 2 and 2. So then you'd have at least 19 rounds for IMT and maybe more if the contestant didn't want to shoot 5 rounds in the walkup to the target. Leave the target scoring at 2x as the difficulty has been raised a little by requiring 10 total rounds to be fired from 100 and 5 rounds from standing on the move at 25-15. As far as I can see this would clean it all up, make it standardized as well as could be and not make it too rigid on what the contestant can or should do between 100 and 25, thus leaving the component of ammo management in as Augee wants. Would force remembering to hold sufficient ammo in reserve for counterattack as well. Walking advance to the target from 25-0 also meets the goal of "closing with". Would also stop the mag dump into the target from 15 yards kneeling, which is stupid. No barrier. No pistol. No kneeling. How's this sound? |
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?
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Ran it today for practice since I know that the rules aren't exactly set right now. I definitely made some horrible gear choices... was kinda just planning to shoot from the bench today but when no one was there i thought i'd go ahead and get it in.
"Gear": Crye Low Profile Belt (which did not stay in place so i need to figure that out for next time) Un-tied Tennis Shoes
Rifle: BCM 11.5" BHF Colt Lower w/ standard milspec trigger EOTech XPS + G33 Ammo: Wolf Gold 55gr 
Video: Please note that I have tendonitis of my quadriceps tendon in my left knee so ridiculous flailing of the left leg when going prone is because i can't drop down very hard on that knee and its also the reason for the shuffling run. I honestly felt kinda stupid but figured that we need people to actually post runs so i'm swallowing my pride and posting  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSO6CG7ig70 Target: 28 hits 2 misses 
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Originally Posted By thornejc:
Ran it today for practice since I know that the rules aren't exactly set right now. I definitely made some horrible gear choices... was kinda just planning to shoot from the bench today but when no one was there i thought i'd go ahead and get it in. "Gear": Crye Low Profile Belt (which did not stay in place so i need to figure that out for next time) Un-tied Tennis Shoes
Rifle: BCM 11.5" BHF Colt Lower w/ standard milspec trigger EOTech XPS + G33 Ammo: Wolf Gold 55gr http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/thornejc23/IMG_0186_zpshn9ekgl9.jpg Video: Please note that I have tendonitis of my quadriceps tendon of my left knee so ridiculous flailing of the left leg when going prone is because i can't drop down very hard on that knee and its also the reason for the shuffling run. I honestly felt kinda stupid but figured that we need people to actually post runs so i'm swallowing my pride and posting
 https://youtu.be/rSO6CG7ig70
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSO6CG7ig70 Target: 28 hits 2 misses http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/thornejc23/IMG_0187_zpspjzearry.jpg Good run man. I regretted going twice the days after because I hit the ground to hard. also I am told that no one could hit anything with wolf ammo so you are being silly. |
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Good job!! Very good run.
And yeah, we gotta clean up the close range stuff. Take a look at my previous post and see what you think about my rules suggestions. Kinda feels like "Uh...What now?" when you get to the 20-25 yard line or so, huh? I think getting up at 25 and walking toward the target shooting makes the most sense. If we clean that up this thing will be set. Again, good run and good shooting! {PS: Don't feel bad about the injury. I'm nursing one and I bet most will have something. If you use it, you'll bruise it, and if you don't use it, you'll lose it! Anyway, nice to see young fellows keeping active and not just laying around on the couch eating Doritos. Kudos! Last Thursday I ran it 3 1/2 x's and 2x's yesterday and then spent the rest of the day with my wife on the horses scouting some new country and did my 5 mile mountain workout hike today. Little by little I'm healing up!}
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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?
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I have a lot of work to do tonight.
EVR's 2 runs, and thornejc's. I'm working on it fellas, bare with me. I put an excel spreadsheet together to do 90% of the math. So it should go fairly quickly. These will be scored using method H regardless of gear. Lancelot, I'm sure once Augee gets everything nailed down. Everything will be in downloadable format. |
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Originally Posted By EVR:
~snip~ {PS: Don't feel bad about the injury. I'm nursing one and I bet most will have something. If you use it, you'll bruise it, and if you don't use it, you'll lose it! Anyway, nice to see young fellows keeping active and not just laying around on the couch eating Doritos. Kudos!}Hey now! I resent that remark...
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Originally Posted By nickforney:
Good run man. I regretted going twice the days after because I hit the ground to hard. also I am told that no one could hit anything with wolf ammo so you are being silly. Originally Posted By nickforney:
Originally Posted By thornejc:
Ran it today for practice since I know that the rules aren't exactly set right now. I definitely made some horrible gear choices... was kinda just planning to shoot from the bench today but when no one was there i thought i'd go ahead and get it in. "Gear": Crye Low Profile Belt (which did not stay in place so i need to figure that out for next time) Un-tied Tennis Shoes
Rifle: BCM 11.5" BHF Colt Lower w/ standard milspec trigger EOTech XPS + G33 Ammo: Wolf Gold 55gr http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/thornejc23/IMG_0186_zpshn9ekgl9.jpg Video: Please note that I have tendonitis of my quadriceps tendon of my left knee so ridiculous flailing of the left leg when going prone is because i can't drop down very hard on that knee and its also the reason for the shuffling run. I honestly felt kinda stupid but figured that we need people to actually post runs so i'm swallowing my pride and posting
https://youtu.be/rSO6CG7ig70
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSO6CG7ig70 Target: 28 hits 2 misses http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/thornejc23/IMG_0187_zpspjzearry.jpg Good run man. I regretted going twice the days after because I hit the ground to hard. also I am told that no one could hit anything with wolf ammo so you are being silly. Ha I know. Knee pads probably would be a nice addition. The shorts didn't help at all... i have no idea what i was doing out there. It will prob be a few weeks before i attempt it again... i'm really not supposed to be running the knee but it has felt pretty decent all weekend so i figured i'd go for it. I sure as hell wasn't going to run it with the T556TNB1 (mk318 i think) that I impulse bought on the way out there  . I historically never gone with anything wolf but i got 1k of this wolf gold stuff a week or two ago and it has been pretty decent stuff so yea... will probably stick with it for range ammo.
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Originally Posted By xtreme762:
I have a lot of work to do tonight. EVR's 2 runs, and thornejc's. I'm working on it fellas, bare with me. I put an excel spreadsheet together to do 90% of the math. So it should go fairly quickly. These will be scored using method H regardless of gear. Lancelot, I'm sure once Augee gets everything nailed down. Everything will be in downloadable format. Dude... i'm not jonesing for my score so take your time man. Thank you. |
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Originally Posted By xtreme762:
I have a lot of work to do tonight. EVR's 2 runs, and thornejc's. I'm working on it fellas, bare with me. I put an excel spreadsheet together to do 90% of the math. So it should go fairly quickly. These will be scored using method H regardless of gear. Lancelot, I'm sure once Augee gets everything nailed down. Everything will be in downloadable format. I'd do it if I had an excell spread sheet that did 99.999% of the math.
Take your time and don't worry about it! 
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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?
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Originally Posted By thornejc:Ha I know. Knee pads probably would be a nice addition. I ductaped an old pair I found buried in my shop on my legs for yesterday's runs. Worked great.
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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?
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Originally Posted By EVR:
Good job!! Very good run. And yeah, we gotta clean up the close range stuff. Take a look at my previous post and see what you think about my rules suggestions. Kinda feels like "Uh...What now?" when you get to the 20-25 yard line or so, huh? I think getting up at 25 and walking toward the target shooting makes the most sense. If we clean that up this thing will be set. Again, good run and good shooting! {PS: Don't feel bad about the injury. I'm nursing one and I bet most will have something. If you use it, you'll bruise it, and if you don't use it, you'll lose it! Anyway, nice to see young fellows keeping active and not just laying around on the couch eating Doritos. Kudos! Last Thursday I ran it 3 1/2 x's and 2x's yesterday and then spent the rest of the day with my wife on the horses scouting some new country and did my 5 mile mountain workout hike today. Little by little I'm healing up!}Haha it definitely did... i had one round left when i got up around 15 or 20 so i kinda walked it in and did the whole mortal kombat 
(kinda) |
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Originally Posted By EVR:
Wolf Gold is good stuff. Brass reloadable and whatnot. Loaded by Prvi Partizan I believe. Its made in a plant in taiwan now so no longer prvi. IIRC this plant was contracted by the US mil to make a few million rounds during a shortage. |
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Originally Posted By thornejc:
Its made in a plant in taiwan now so no longer prvi. IIRC this plant was contracted by the US mil to make a few million rounds during a shortage. Originally Posted By thornejc:
Originally Posted By EVR:
Wolf Gold is good stuff. Brass reloadable and whatnot. Loaded by Prvi Partizan I believe. Its made in a plant in taiwan now so no longer prvi. IIRC this plant was contracted by the US mil to make a few million rounds during a shortage. That is interesting. Have you reloaded it? How is the brass? Primer pockets sized right, etc? |
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?
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Originally Posted By EVR:
That is interesting. Have you reloaded it? How is the brass? Primer pockets sized right, etc? Originally Posted By EVR:
Originally Posted By thornejc:
Originally Posted By EVR:
Wolf Gold is good stuff. Brass reloadable and whatnot. Loaded by Prvi Partizan I believe. Its made in a plant in taiwan now so no longer prvi. IIRC this plant was contracted by the US mil to make a few million rounds during a shortage. That is interesting. Have you reloaded it? How is the brass? Primer pockets sized right, etc? I haven't reloaded it yet because i had it less than two weeks but it should be good to go. I think it has crimped pockets so they will need to be dealt with before you put the primer in. |
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EVR's PSA run:
Elapsed time -- 3.18.6 ----- Click on spoiler tag for your times. DT Penalties: 3:43 ET Penalties: 1:06 Combined Score: 8:07.6 - 1:00(Expert) = 7:07.6 Click To View Spoiler SO it looks like the gaming actually helped your score because you only shot 2 rounds on most of your bounds. Which in turn lowered your defilade penalties exponentially! CHEATER! Great job EVR, as always.
****************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** Originally Posted By EVR:
I'd do it if I had an excell spread sheet that did 99.999% of the math.
Take your time and don't worry about it!
It's about 90% of the math. I wish it was 100% of the work!
Unfortunately only judges will get this sheet. Unless Augee says otherwise. |
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Originally Posted By xtreme762:
EVR's PSA run: Elapsed time -- 3.18.6 Click To View Spoiler HITS: 28 Miss: 2 DT Penalties: 3:43 ET Penalties: 1:06 Combined Score: 8:07.6 - 1:00(Expert) = 7:07.6 SO it looks like the gaming actually helped you score because you only shot 2 rounds on most of your bounds. Which in turn lowered your defilade penalties exponentially! CHEATER! Great job EVR, as always.
THANKS and wow, it worked! Well, a broken clock is right twice a day and I'll take luck over skill any day, etc.
Thanks for scoring it! This thing is fun. It'll be more fun when I get healed up and back in shape. God willing. ETA: Which table did you use? |
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?
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thornejc's run:
Elapsed time -- 3:04.2 ----- Click on spoiler tag for your times. DT Penalties: 1:25 ET Penalties: 2:12 Combined Score: 6:41.2 - 1:00(Expert) = 5:41.2 Click To View Spoiler Excellent run, thornejc. |
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Originally Posted By xtreme762:
thornejc's run: Elapsed time -- 3:04.2 ----- Click on spoiler tag for your times. DT Penalties: 1:25 ET Penalties: 2:12 Combined Score: 6:41.2 - 1:00(Expert) = 5:41.2 Click To View Spoiler Excellent run, thornejc. Yes, indeed!! Very nice job!!! Good run and good shooting! |
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?
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Originally Posted By xtreme762:
thornejc's run: Elapsed time -- 3:04.2 ----- Click on spoiler tag for your times. DT Penalties: 1:25 ET Penalties: 2:12 Combined Score: 6:41.2 - 1:00(Expert) = 5:41.2 Click To View Spoiler Excellent run, thornejc. Thanks man. Appreciate you taking the time to score it. |
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Originally Posted By thornejc:
Thanks man. Appreciate you taking the time to score it. Originally Posted By thornejc:
Originally Posted By xtreme762:
thornejc's run: Elapsed time -- 3:04.2 ----- Click on spoiler tag for your times. DT Penalties: 1:25 ET Penalties: 2:12 Combined Score: 6:41.2 - 1:00(Expert) = 5:41.2 Click To View Spoiler Excellent run, thornejc. Thanks man. Appreciate you taking the time to score it. No problem. That final time of 11.3s exposure is due to there not being a barrier, or not having taken a knee. If I'm not mistaken that counts as exposure time. If that is right; if you had taken a knee, or had a barrier. Your exposure penalty would have been much smaller making your combined score much smaller. |
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Originally Posted By 449:
Thornejc, great run! The bar has been set, shorts! Someone has to run this with a loin cloth and flip-flops! Again, awesome run! I am definitely going to plan it out a little better next time... ordered suspenders for the belt last night so i'll see if that makes any difference whatsoever. Long sleeves and long pants are definitely on the list as well. Hope the knee will be a little better by then too. Its not super painful but supposedly it won't heal correctly if I'm too hard on it so i'm more concerned about turning it into a chronic condition than anything else. Its the first time I've had it. |
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Originally Posted By EVR:
OK, guys, looking at nick's suggestions and thinking about it, how about this as a final set of rules; Simplify the whole exercise to this set of standard rules; 1} Start at 100 yard line. Sprint to target and touch target, sprint back to 100 yd line. 2} Initial contact = 5 rounds 3} IMT to 25 yards. 4} From 25-15 no more than 5 rounds total may be fired, all must be fired from standing on the move. No shooting within 15 yards. 5} Touch target and sprint back to 100 yardline. 6} Counterattack at 100 = 5 rounds. Leave the rest up to the contestant. So the only rule restriction on the number of rounds is 5 rounds at start, no more than 5 rounds between 25-15 and 5 rounds at 100 finish. That leaves 15 for the IMT portion. If that is not enough, just make Initial Contact 3 rounds and Counterattack 3 rounds. Or 2 and 2. So then you'd have at least 19 rounds for IMT and maybe more if the contestant didn't want to shoot 5 rounds in the walkup to the target. Leave the target scoring at 2x as the difficulty has been raised a little by requiring 10 total rounds to be fired from 100 and 5 rounds from standing on the move at 25-15. As far as I can see this would clean it all up, make it standardized as well as could be and not make it too rigid on what the contestant can or should do between 100 and 25, thus leaving the component of ammo management in as Augee wants. Would force remembering to hold sufficient ammo in reserve for counterattack as well. Walking advance to the target from 25-0 also meets the goal of "closing with". Would also stop the mag dump into the target from 15 yards kneeling, which is stupid. No barrier. No pistol. No kneeling. How's this sound? I think you guys are missing the point again. If I understand Augee correctly, he WANTS to have flexibility in how many bounds you make, how many rounds you fire with each bound, AND how many rounds you CHOOSE to end with still in your magazine. He wants this to be a thinking exercise where there can be many variations within a loose-ish set of rules. As he stated earlier, 3 rounds minimum on first contact, 3 rounds minimum in each quarter of the course, but more is OK. If you choose to only fire 1 round per bound, that is OK too, as long as you get at least one bound per quarter with 3 rounds fired. Part of this exercise is ammo management too. You have to figure out your own ammo management. It is not set for you. Depending on what you decide, you will be rewarded or penalized. You figure it out for yourself. Same goes for times and # of bounds. That's the whole point. Not to take away your thinking and specify a rigid COF that you do unthinkingly. Correct me if I'm wrong, Augee. |
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Originally Posted By FAB-10_Guy:
I think you guys are missing the point again. If I understand Augee correctly, he WANTS to have flexibility in how many bounds you make, how many rounds you fire with each bound, AND how many rounds you CHOOSE to end with still in your magazine. He wants this to be a thinking exercise where there can be many variations within a loose-ish set of rules. As he stated earlier, 3 rounds minimum on first contact, 3 rounds minimum in each quarter of the course, but more is OK. If you choose to only fire 1 round per bound, that is OK too, as long as you get at least one bound per quarter with 3 rounds fired. Part of this exercise is ammo management too. You have to figure out your own ammo management. It is not set for you. Depending on what you decide, you will be rewarded or penalized. You figure it out for yourself. Same goes for times and # of bounds. That's the whole point. Not to take away your thinking and specify a rigid COF that you do unthinkingly. Correct me if I'm wrong, Augee. Originally Posted By FAB-10_Guy:
Originally Posted By EVR:
OK, guys, looking at nick's suggestions and thinking about it, how about this as a final set of rules; Simplify the whole exercise to this set of standard rules; 1} Start at 100 yard line. Sprint to target and touch target, sprint back to 100 yd line. 2} Initial contact = 5 rounds 3} IMT to 25 yards. 4} From 25-15 no more than 5 rounds total may be fired, all must be fired from standing on the move. No shooting within 15 yards. 5} Touch target and sprint back to 100 yardline. 6} Counterattack at 100 = 5 rounds. Leave the rest up to the contestant. So the only rule restriction on the number of rounds is 5 rounds at start, no more than 5 rounds between 25-15 and 5 rounds at 100 finish. That leaves 15 for the IMT portion. If that is not enough, just make Initial Contact 3 rounds and Counterattack 3 rounds. Or 2 and 2. So then you'd have at least 19 rounds for IMT and maybe more if the contestant didn't want to shoot 5 rounds in the walkup to the target. Leave the target scoring at 2x as the difficulty has been raised a little by requiring 10 total rounds to be fired from 100 and 5 rounds from standing on the move at 25-15. As far as I can see this would clean it all up, make it standardized as well as could be and not make it too rigid on what the contestant can or should do between 100 and 25, thus leaving the component of ammo management in as Augee wants. Would force remembering to hold sufficient ammo in reserve for counterattack as well. Walking advance to the target from 25-0 also meets the goal of "closing with". Would also stop the mag dump into the target from 15 yards kneeling, which is stupid. No barrier. No pistol. No kneeling. How's this sound? I think you guys are missing the point again. If I understand Augee correctly, he WANTS to have flexibility in how many bounds you make, how many rounds you fire with each bound, AND how many rounds you CHOOSE to end with still in your magazine. He wants this to be a thinking exercise where there can be many variations within a loose-ish set of rules. As he stated earlier, 3 rounds minimum on first contact, 3 rounds minimum in each quarter of the course, but more is OK. If you choose to only fire 1 round per bound, that is OK too, as long as you get at least one bound per quarter with 3 rounds fired. Part of this exercise is ammo management too. You have to figure out your own ammo management. It is not set for you. Depending on what you decide, you will be rewarded or penalized. You figure it out for yourself. Same goes for times and # of bounds. That's the whole point. Not to take away your thinking and specify a rigid COF that you do unthinkingly. Correct me if I'm wrong, Augee. Read my post over again and I think you'll find that everything you want is provided for in the set of rules I outlined. OK. Use Augee's 3 to start and add 3 to end {I'm flexible on that and you can shoot more if you want. 3 or 5 were merely the minimums at start and finish}, and then the only thing that has to be cleaned up is what to do inside 25 yards. The way it is now is goofy and needs to be fixed as he said and I think we all agree. He was experimenting with barrier/pistol/kneeling. A walking and shooting approach to the target approximates his goal of "closing with" better than anything else. A 5 shot limit inside 25 and cease fire at 15 is merely there to prevent mag dumps at close range to boost target score. Other than the three shots per 25 yards {which is going to happen regardless} there would be no limit to bounds or shots. If you want to bound 15 x's and fire one shot each time, go for it. {I might add tho that a one-shot "covering fire" really isn't realistic either, but is allowed.} You are still forced to manage and conserve ammo for the counterattack. The initial contact and counterattack stages have minimums {3 or 5 shots, whatever is decided upon} but you can shoot more if you want. I think the rules as I laid them out are the best compilation since we started this. Read them over again and I think you'll find everything you think should be included is included. So... 1} Run from 100 to target, touch target and run back to 100 yd start line 2} Initial contact = Minimum 3 {or 5} shots 3} Minimum 3 shots per 25 yards 4} No max number of bounds 5} Bounding ceases at 25 yards 6} Limit 5 shots from 25 to 15 yards 7} Cease firing at 15 8} Run from 15 to target, touch target and run back to start line 9} 3 {or 5 shots} counterattack I think this sums up Augee's goals perfectly. Let's see what he thinks. I like 3 shots for initial contact and counterattack and would go for 3 shots maximum walking toward target but the structure of what I have laid out here seems best. No barriers and no kneeling. No mag dumps slam in front of the target. Forces most of the exercise to be the IMT and forces management of ammo in order to make sure enough is left for the counterattack at the end. |
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?
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Originally Posted By EVR:
Read my post over again and I think you'll find that everything you want is provided for in the set of rules I outlined. OK. Use Augee's 3 to start and add 3 to end {I'm flexible on that and you can shoot more if you want. 3 or 5 were merely the minimums at start and finish}, and then the only thing that has to be cleaned up is what to do inside 25 yards. The way it is now is goofy and needs to be fixed as he said and I think we all agree. He was experimenting with barrier/pistol/kneeling. A walking and shooting approach to the target approximates his goal of "closing with" better than anything else. A 5 shot limit inside 25 and cease fire at 15 is merely there to prevent mag dumps at close range to boost target score. Other than the three shots per 25 yards {which is going to happen regardless} there would be no limit to bounds or shots. If you want to bound 15 x's and fire one shot each time, go for it. {I might add tho that a one-shot "covering fire" really isn't realistic either, but is allowed.} You are still forced to manage and conserve ammo for the counterattack. The initial contact and counterattack stages have minimums {3 or 5 shots, whatever is decided upon} but you can shoot more if you want. I think the rules as I laid them out are the best compilation since we started this. Read them over again and I think you'll find everything you think should be included is included. So... 1} Run from 100 to target, touch target and run back to 100 yd start line 2} Initial contact = Minimum 3 {or 5} shots 3} Minimum 3 shots per 25 yards 4} No max number of bounds 5} Bounding ceases at 25 yards 6} Limit 5 shots from 25 to 15 yards 7} Cease firing at 15 8} Run from 15 to target, touch target and run back to start line 9} 3 {or 5 shots} counterattack I think this sums up Augee's goals perfectly. Let's see what he thinks. I like 3 shots for initial contact and counterattack and would go for 3 shots maximum walking toward target but the structure of what I have laid out here seems best. No barriers and no kneeling. No mag dumps slam in front of the target. Forces most of the exercise to be the IMT and forces management of ammo in order to make sure enough is left for the counterattack at the end. Originally Posted By EVR:
Originally Posted By FAB-10_Guy:
Originally Posted By EVR:
OK, guys, looking at nick's suggestions and thinking about it, how about this as a final set of rules; Simplify the whole exercise to this set of standard rules; 1} Start at 100 yard line. Sprint to target and touch target, sprint back to 100 yd line. 2} Initial contact = 5 rounds 3} IMT to 25 yards. 4} From 25-15 no more than 5 rounds total may be fired, all must be fired from standing on the move. No shooting within 15 yards. 5} Touch target and sprint back to 100 yardline. 6} Counterattack at 100 = 5 rounds. Leave the rest up to the contestant. So the only rule restriction on the number of rounds is 5 rounds at start, no more than 5 rounds between 25-15 and 5 rounds at 100 finish. That leaves 15 for the IMT portion. If that is not enough, just make Initial Contact 3 rounds and Counterattack 3 rounds. Or 2 and 2. So then you'd have at least 19 rounds for IMT and maybe more if the contestant didn't want to shoot 5 rounds in the walkup to the target. Leave the target scoring at 2x as the difficulty has been raised a little by requiring 10 total rounds to be fired from 100 and 5 rounds from standing on the move at 25-15. As far as I can see this would clean it all up, make it standardized as well as could be and not make it too rigid on what the contestant can or should do between 100 and 25, thus leaving the component of ammo management in as Augee wants. Would force remembering to hold sufficient ammo in reserve for counterattack as well. Walking advance to the target from 25-0 also meets the goal of "closing with". Would also stop the mag dump into the target from 15 yards kneeling, which is stupid. No barrier. No pistol. No kneeling. How's this sound? I think you guys are missing the point again. If I understand Augee correctly, he WANTS to have flexibility in how many bounds you make, how many rounds you fire with each bound, AND how many rounds you CHOOSE to end with still in your magazine. He wants this to be a thinking exercise where there can be many variations within a loose-ish set of rules. As he stated earlier, 3 rounds minimum on first contact, 3 rounds minimum in each quarter of the course, but more is OK. If you choose to only fire 1 round per bound, that is OK too, as long as you get at least one bound per quarter with 3 rounds fired. Part of this exercise is ammo management too. You have to figure out your own ammo management. It is not set for you. Depending on what you decide, you will be rewarded or penalized. You figure it out for yourself. Same goes for times and # of bounds. That's the whole point. Not to take away your thinking and specify a rigid COF that you do unthinkingly. Correct me if I'm wrong, Augee. Read my post over again and I think you'll find that everything you want is provided for in the set of rules I outlined. OK. Use Augee's 3 to start and add 3 to end {I'm flexible on that and you can shoot more if you want. 3 or 5 were merely the minimums at start and finish}, and then the only thing that has to be cleaned up is what to do inside 25 yards. The way it is now is goofy and needs to be fixed as he said and I think we all agree. He was experimenting with barrier/pistol/kneeling. A walking and shooting approach to the target approximates his goal of "closing with" better than anything else. A 5 shot limit inside 25 and cease fire at 15 is merely there to prevent mag dumps at close range to boost target score. Other than the three shots per 25 yards {which is going to happen regardless} there would be no limit to bounds or shots. If you want to bound 15 x's and fire one shot each time, go for it. {I might add tho that a one-shot "covering fire" really isn't realistic either, but is allowed.} You are still forced to manage and conserve ammo for the counterattack. The initial contact and counterattack stages have minimums {3 or 5 shots, whatever is decided upon} but you can shoot more if you want. I think the rules as I laid them out are the best compilation since we started this. Read them over again and I think you'll find everything you think should be included is included. So... 1} Run from 100 to target, touch target and run back to 100 yd start line 2} Initial contact = Minimum 3 {or 5} shots 3} Minimum 3 shots per 25 yards 4} No max number of bounds 5} Bounding ceases at 25 yards 6} Limit 5 shots from 25 to 15 yards 7} Cease firing at 15 8} Run from 15 to target, touch target and run back to start line 9} 3 {or 5 shots} counterattack I think this sums up Augee's goals perfectly. Let's see what he thinks. I like 3 shots for initial contact and counterattack and would go for 3 shots maximum walking toward target but the structure of what I have laid out here seems best. No barriers and no kneeling. No mag dumps slam in front of the target. Forces most of the exercise to be the IMT and forces management of ammo in order to make sure enough is left for the counterattack at the end. What's the point of touching the target? I don't get that. Also, Augee specified barrier was optional, and to place it no closer than 15yd. Kneeling OK at the barrier. Then shooting while moving to no closer than 5yd. These are things he already specified. Why do you want to change them? |
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Originally Posted By FAB-10_Guy:
What's the point of touching the target? I don't get that. Also, Augee specified barrier was optional, and to place it no closer than 15yd. Kneeling OK at the barrier. Then shooting while moving to no closer than 5yd. These are things he already specified. Why do you want to change them? He'll have to weigh in but he has already said we need to clean up the last 15 yards. Touching the target simply makes everybody start BACK from the same point. As it uis now where to turn around and head back is unclear. The barrier and kneeling were up for grabs from the beginning. I don't see how either add anything positive to the exercise. This cleans it up and adds a bit of challenge where there is none {kneeling on a big target at 15 yards is silly}. Anyway, it is Augee's thing so he'll have to comment on my suggestions. I mean, these are just my ideas. If you have suggestions have at it. |
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?
|
Originally Posted By EVR:
He'll have to weigh in but he has already said we need to clean up the last 15 yards. Touching the target simply makes everybody start BACK from the same point. As it uis now where to turn around and head back is unclear. The barrier and kneeling were up for grabs from the beginning. I don't see how either add anything positive to the exercise. This cleans it up and adds a bit of challenge where there is none {kneeling on a big target at 15 yards is silly}. Anyway, it is Augee's thing so he'll have to comment on my suggestions. I mean, these are just my ideas. If you have suggestions have at it. Originally Posted By EVR:
Originally Posted By FAB-10_Guy:
What's the point of touching the target? I don't get that. Also, Augee specified barrier was optional, and to place it no closer than 15yd. Kneeling OK at the barrier. Then shooting while moving to no closer than 5yd. These are things he already specified. Why do you want to change them? He'll have to weigh in but he has already said we need to clean up the last 15 yards. Touching the target simply makes everybody start BACK from the same point. As it uis now where to turn around and head back is unclear. The barrier and kneeling were up for grabs from the beginning. I don't see how either add anything positive to the exercise. This cleans it up and adds a bit of challenge where there is none {kneeling on a big target at 15 yards is silly}. Anyway, it is Augee's thing so he'll have to comment on my suggestions. I mean, these are just my ideas. If you have suggestions have at it. From early on, the COF has been to advance to the 5yd line before turning around. Whether you shoot from there or not has not been clarified, but everyone should be headed back from the 5yd line. This was clearly stated in the original instructions. The barrier is optional, and adds benefit. On my range, all I did for this was to move a big trash can to that location and shoot from behind it. Doesn't have to be too fancy. |
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Okay... so ended up being a lot more backlogged than I expected after the weekend.
Working my way through catching up on, will have an updated post once I've gone through everything. Sorry if there was any loss of momentum due to my being MIA, but from what I was able to follow here and there on my phone, it sounds like some good stuff going on. ~Augee |
"Combat" Virtual Challenge/Competition Discussion - Military Clones and Non-Clones Welcome (Page 7 of 8)
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