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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - LMT versus Colt (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 3/13/2015 11:09:34 PM EDT
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So the one local gun shop is trying hard to sell me on an LMT AR15 versus the Colt AR15 that I am looking at. Wanted to get the pros and cons of both AR15 models.
I am also considering a basic AR15 rifle like the M&P15 Sportster. My goals are 100-300 range distance, entry level scope, iron sights, future expansion options and good accuracy and reliability. I did read the sticky and had few questions on what would be a good starter to mid range AR15 rifle for under 2K. Obviously if I had 5K then something high end like a SCAR 17S or AR10 would be nice but I don't need a whizbang sniper rifle for a while. |
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If you're in the PRK, buy whatever they you can.
Buy a complete lower receiver group locally and then buy a complete upper receiver group from an on-line vendor. The upper will then have all the features you want so that you don't need to upgrade later (BCM, PSA, etc) eta: example of a complete PSA upper group (more features than SW Sport) http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/19114/s/psa-16-midlength-pencil-stainless-steel-5-56-nato-1-7-freedom-moe-fde-upper-with-bcg-and-ch/category/4220/ BCM http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR-15-16-Mid-Length-Group-s/27.htm |
| I've heard good things about LMT but not sure how good of resale value and how quality compares to Colt and other high end AR15 makers. I like the options to easy change barrels and receivers but I thought that most AR have that ability? Of course the LMT has simple torx screw to do that. |
| LMT ARs are some of the best you can buy. I have had a few of them. I would put them over a Colt any day. LMT was founded in 1980 to provide the U.S. military, law enforcement, and government agencies with high quality weapons, components, and modular weapon systems. Their stuff is top notch. |
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Thanks for the feedback! The LMT has good reviews as a quality produced AR15 and my firearms instructor who has trained tons of military, police and civilians is also a big fan of the LMT products.
Now I just need to find a friend in northern California with an LMT who can let me try it out before spending the cash. |
| Just beware, I was issued an LMT where I work and it was so horribly unreliable, along with 10+ other guns we bought from them, that LMT came to our range to attempt to fix them. We even sent mine back to the factory and it still was not fixed when it returned. LMT MRP 14.5in rifles with FTFeed every five rounds or so. I never did get an answer from our armorer as to whether they were ever fixed or not, but LMT could not seem to figure it out. This is not to say they are all bad weapons. Most of ours have functioned flawlessly, it just seems like we got a terrible batch one time around. |
| To the average person Colt will be a better resale but you can't go wrong with either. Colt, LMT, BCM, DD, Noveske, and maybe a few others are gonna be great DI rifles. The Smith sporter is the cheapest most reliable AR on the market it will shoot the cheap shit all day long. Maybe not the best option for a guy or gal that will upgrade his all the time but for the average shooter best option. But buy once cry once. |
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No noticeable difference. Owned several of both. Colt checks more boxes on the list if that matters to you. One difference to me. I can get a Colt AR6720 for $799 right now at PSA. AR6721s are out there for $840, just helped someone find one. Please show me any LMT rifle for under $1000. |
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One difference to me. I can get a Colt AR6720 for $799 right now at PSA. AR6721s are out there for $840, just help someone find one. Please show me any LMT rifle for under $1000. Quoted:
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No noticeable difference. Owned several of both. Colt checks more boxes on the list if that matters to you. One difference to me. I can get a Colt AR6720 for $799 right now at PSA. AR6721s are out there for $840, just help someone find one. Please show me any LMT rifle for under $1000. I'd have to say price would be my deciding factor as well. They are both good rifles, but I can see no reason to pay the premium for the LMT. |
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I'd have to say price would be my deciding factor as well. They are both good rifles, but I can see no reason to pay the premium for the LMT. Quoted:
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No noticeable difference. Owned several of both. Colt checks more boxes on the list if that matters to you. One difference to me. I can get a Colt AR6720 for $799 right now at PSA. AR6721s are out there for $840, just help someone find one. Please show me any LMT rifle for under $1000. I'd have to say price would be my deciding factor as well. They are both good rifles, but I can see no reason to pay the premium for the LMT. PLUS 1 |
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LMT machines a lot of their own parts, to their own high standard, with their own name on the line.
LMT isn't just a rebuilder. They delivered the MRP systems, which are known to be great weapons. So they design systems far above what most of the budget builders could imagine doing. For that, you need knowledge and skill. LMT isn't the type of company (unlike ALL the economy builders) to just over gas all their guns to ensure they don't come back when the customer uses the notoriously underpowered (especially for guns optimized for 5.56) Wolf .223. So they're definitely innovative, and deliver a product that works and works very well; a lot more than any budget maker can claim. I'd choose an LMT over a military grade Colt or FN any day. Also over BCM or DD. There's a few industry pro's out there using LMT's way beyond what most rifles would last. I wouldn't let the Econ-rifle fans sway you into going cheap. You get what you pay for, and why pay anything if a lot of the savings is achieved through getting the cheapest quality parts and cutting corners when building. |
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LMT machines a lot of their own parts, to their own high standard, with their own name on the line. LMT isn't just a rebuilder. They delivered the MRP systems, which are known to be great weapons. So they design systems far above what most of the budget builders could imagine doing. For that, you need knowledge and skill. LMT isn't the type of company (unlike ALL the economy builders) to just over gas all their guns to ensure they don't come back when the customer uses the notoriously underpowered (especially for guns optimized for 5.56) Wolf .223. So they're definitely innovative, and deliver a product that works and works very well; a lot more than any budget maker can claim. I'd choose an LMT over a military grade Colt or FN any day. Also over BCM or DD. There's a few industry pro's out there using LMT's way beyond what most rifles would last. I wouldn't let the Econ-rifle fans sway you into going cheap. You get what you pay for, and why pay anything if a lot of the savings is achieved through getting the cheapest quality parts and cutting corners when building. so you are saying colt, bcm, and dd are cutting corners, going cheap and interested in savings vs a quality rifle? You realize these are the rifles you are citing when comparing lmt to 'econo rifles'? colt is no worst than lmt however the enhance lmt bolt is the bees knees |
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Quoted: LMT ARs are some of the best you can buy. I have had a few of them. I would put them over a Colt any day. LMT was founded in 1980 to provide the U.S. military, law enforcement, and government agencies with high quality weapons, components, and modular weapon systems. Their stuff is top notch. And LMT beat out FN & HK for a British Designated Marksman rifle contract, which is really saying something. LMT makes very nice, high quality guns. I'd take an LMT over a Colt every time....and have. |
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To the average person Colt will be a better resale but you can't go wrong with either. Colt, LMT, BCM, DD, Noveske, and maybe a few others are gonna be great DI rifles. The Smith sporter is the cheapest most reliable AR on the market it will shoot the cheap shit all day long. Maybe not the best option for a guy or gal that will upgrade his all the time but for the average shooter best option. But buy once cry once. How do you figure that a Colt will have a better resale than the LMT? |
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A lot people are saying LMT over Colt, but not saying why? I don't have a dog in the fight either would be gtg. I'd go with Colt because theyre cheaper at the moment. I do have a dog in the fight as I stated earlier. It would be LMT hands down over a Colt. This is what gets me, guys that have no experience with certain ARs and uttering comments about them. |
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LMT machines a lot of their own parts, to their own high standard, with their own name on the line. LMT isn't just a rebuilder. They delivered the MRP systems, which are known to be great weapons. So they design systems far above what most of the budget builders could imagine doing. For that, you need knowledge and skill. LMT isn't the type of company (unlike ALL the economy builders) to just over gas all their guns to ensure they don't come back when the customer uses the notoriously underpowered (especially for guns optimized for 5.56) Wolf .223. So they're definitely innovative, and deliver a product that works and works very well; a lot more than any budget maker can claim. I'd choose an LMT over a military grade Colt or FN any day. Also over BCM or DD. There's a few industry pro's out there using LMT's way beyond what most rifles would last. I wouldn't let the Econ-rifle fans sway you into going cheap. You get what you pay for, and why pay anything if a lot of the savings is achieved through getting the cheapest quality parts and cutting corners when building. 
Well said. |
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In regards to both company's standard base M4 carbine clone varients (Defender 2000 vs. 6920)...
LMT isn't 100% "Mil Spec" according to the chart, but they do have some nice touches that make them surpass a standard M4. They should have more accurate barrels as they are cut oversized prior to chrome plating, not cut and then acided etched down like most others. I think Rock Creek makes LMT's barrels? The LMT rifles also have nicer lowers (aside from the carbine buffer which is easily replaceable) IMHO with teflon coated receiver extensions with drainage holes, and nice small touches such as textured paddle releases and safetys. They also don't have notched hammers and high shelf lowers like Colt. However, LMT has some "drawbacks", for instance they don't come standard with full auto carriers, they don't have double heat sheilded handguards, they don't use taper pins for the FSB and they are not parked underneath the FSB. Their gas keys are also MIM and they don't come with H buffers. How much, if any, difference those "short cuts" make is your call. I find Colt's lowers to have more generous magwell's (more mags will drop free easier), nicer extractor springs (colt gold), full auto standard carrier, H buffer standard, and generally mil spec to the T. They are also very accurate in their own right and dead stone reliable. LMT has a very handsome rollmark, though it's hard to top Colt's "M4 Carbine" proudly displayed alongside the pony. Colt's are also a lot more reasonably priced at the moment. |
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What list? Yours? Quoted:
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No noticeable difference. Owned several of both. Colt checks more boxes on the list if that matters to you. What list? Yours? The DOD contract "list". Quoted:
LMT machines a lot of their own parts, to their own high standard, with their own name on the line. LMT isn't just a rebuilder. They delivered the MRP systems, which are known to be great weapons. So they design systems far above what most of the budget builders could imagine doing. For that, you need knowledge and skill. LMT isn't the type of company (unlike ALL the economy builders) to just over gas all their guns to ensure they don't come back when the customer uses the notoriously underpowered (especially for guns optimized for 5.56) Wolf .223. So they're definitely innovative, and deliver a product that works and works very well; a lot more than any budget maker can claim. I'd choose an LMT over a military grade Colt or FN any day. Also over BCM or DD. There's a few industry pro's out there using LMT's way beyond what most rifles would last. I wouldn't let the Econ-rifle fans sway you into going cheap. You get what you pay for, and why pay anything if a lot of the savings is achieved through getting the cheapest quality parts and cutting corners when building. Don't know what you're talking about as both company's M4 carbine clones use 16" carbine length barrels with "standard" .063 gas port sizes. Each should run wolf, or any other steel case, fine as even though .063 is the "standard" size, it is the standard size with a 14.5" barrel, making them slightly "over gassed" with the longer 16" barrel. Which is a good thing since it should give you a slight extra bit of reliability for when your rifle is very fouled, or if running lower powered ammo. |
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Standard 6920 vs standard lmt, flip a coin. Both are great base carbines. Quoted:
Standard 6920 vs standard lmt, flip a coin. Both are great base carbines. Thats about it right there, for a base carbean they're both great guns. Have a few of both and they're first-rate, nothing to worry about , just rock-solid basic guns. Quoted:
How do you figure that a Colt will have a better resale than the LMT? Just name recognition. EVERYBODY knows Colt and there are the fanboys, not everyone knows LMT. With a flooded market its hard to stand out, but the pony has been around a long time and does so. Not so much so for other manufacturers. |
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Thats about it right there, for a base carbean they're both great guns. Have a few of both and they're first-rate, nothing to worry about , just rock-solid basic guns. Just name recognition. EVERYBODY knows Colt and there are the fanboys, not everyone knows LMT. With a flooded market its hard to stand out, but the pony has been around a long time and does so. Not so much so for other manufacturers. Quoted:
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Standard 6920 vs standard lmt, flip a coin. Both are great base carbines. Thats about it right there, for a base carbean they're both great guns. Have a few of both and they're first-rate, nothing to worry about , just rock-solid basic guns. Quoted:
How do you figure that a Colt will have a better resale than the LMT? Just name recognition. EVERYBODY knows Colt and there are the fanboys, not everyone knows LMT. With a flooded market its hard to stand out, but the pony has been around a long time and does so. Not so much so for other manufacturers. Not everyone knows of LMT because you do not find them on every shelf in the country. They do more sales under government and law enforcement contracts than they do on the retail front. They are a premier manufacturer and not every Tom, Dick, and Harry owns one. Just because you see Colts everywhere and the "name" has been around for ages, it does mean that the Colt has a better resale than a LMT. LMT ARs hold their values extremely well. One thing that LMT has going for them is that they are an in-house manufacturer. They have been at this for 35 years and have built a very good reputation for themselves. They have done more innovative work with ARs than Colt has in over 50 years. Besides, Colt did not design the M16/AR15, Eugene Stoner and Armalite did. Colt just paid for the rights and designs to manufacture them. There will always be Colt fanboys. To them, Colt can do no wrong. They think that Colt is the cream of the crop. They could not be further from the truth. To discount LMT ARs is simply foolish. |
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Haha, as pointed out, LMT and Colt --BOTH-- aren't companies that just overgas their guns. Definitely true. I was refering to all the econ-builders. That plus they'll both cycle Wolf/Tula/cheap 223 just fine. I think another reason econ-guns are originally overgassed so much is to make up for more lax tolerances/specs on the parts. They might not run so smooth, so a little extra force might be needed to cycle, especially again Wolf/Tula 223.
On what route to actually go with LMT... if you can go without a free floated rail, I'd personally go with their M4 type 14.5" complete upper half. They're not terrible on Gunbroker. Only thing is... you mess with the barrel nut or gas block, you've now LOST all the reliability that came with them (very well) assembling that gun. Don't mess with that stuff. Get the MRP or newer slick type MRP types. Sadly, LMT lowers are rather expensive, even for my MRP upper-owning blood. I went with a rather smartly put together lower half from Rainier. Lewis Machine and Tool is a rare type company in a way. Their business is high quality precision machining, and their name isn't even remotely tactical sounding. Not much allure for that reason. So, they're products must speak for themselves, judging by the feedback in this thread. |
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It's funny how contentious discussions get about questions where you really can't loose either way.
LMT makes a great AR. I really wanted one back in the day when Colt only offered rifles with the oversized FCG pins. I still want one but am only passively looking. Like Noveske, LMT was swamped with orders after the '08 panic and again after the panic of '12 result was that their prices went up and never really came back down. Their standard patrol model is still a great no-frills rifle but I'm not sure if it's worth the $1400ish price they are asking for it with all the other great guns that are now on the market. (The quality level of the overall AR market has improved drastically over the last decade). I was no Colt fan back when they had the oversized FCG pins but these days I consider them the best value out there. This is not to say they're the cheapest, I just think you get the highest quality rifle for your buck. Especially with some of the sales that crop up out there or with the new OEM models that strip off all the stuff you'd probably end up replacing right away anyway. Colts have a good resale because there are lots of folks out there who just collect Colts. I'm sure there's some LMT collectors out there as well but they are not as prevalent in the market. Also, as outfits like Ratworx has proven, the Colt can be broken down and parted out for the same price or more than the price of the total gun as there is a strong demand for colt parts, I'm not sure if you could get your money back as easily parting out an LMT defender, but it's possible. Again: YOU CAN"T GO WRONG WITH EITHER! Both are great rifles; whichever you choose you probably won't loose any sleep asking yourself if you made the right choice, and in a long enough timeline if you are bit by the bug you'll probably end up owning one of each. |
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It's funny how contentious discussions get about questions where you really can't loose either way. LMT makes a great AR. I really wanted one back in the day when Colt only offered rifles with the oversized FCG pins. I still want one but am only passively looking. Like Noveske, LMT was swamped with orders after the '08 panic and again after the panic of '12 result was that their prices went up and never really came back down. Their standard patrol model is still a great no-frills rifle but I'm not sure if it's worth the $1400ish price they are asking for it with all the other great guns that are now on the market. (The quality level of the overall AR market has improved drastically over the last decade). I was no Colt fan back when they had the oversized FCG pins but these days I consider them the best value out there. This is not to say they're the cheapest, I just think you get the highest quality rifle for your buck. Especially with some of the sales that crop up out there or with the new OEM models that strip off all the stuff you'd probably end up replacing right away anyway. Colts have a good resale because there are lots of folks out there who just collect Colts. I'm sure there's some LMT collectors out there as well but they are not as prevalent in the market. Also, as outfits like Ratworx has proven, the Colt can be broken down and parted out for the same price or more than the price of the total gun as there is a strong demand for colt parts, I'm not sure if you could get your money back as easily parting out an LMT defender, but it's possible. Again: YOU CAN"T GO WRONG WITH EITHER! Both are great rifles; whichever you choose you probably won't loose any sleep asking yourself if you made the right choice, and in a long enough timeline if you are bit by the bug you'll probably end up owning one of each. good post |
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These "vs" threads are great.
I'm a big LMT fan, but I think the MRP is a bit much for your first AR, I would start off with a basic AR, like a 6920 or standard Defender and go from there, better yet, just buy an upper online. A CA gunshop isn't the place to buy a complete AR. DSG sells LMT 14.5 uppers for $450 |
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Back when Colt had half circle carriers, that sear block, .170" fcg pins, and the screw takedown pin, LMT built a mostly normal AR with just a semi carrier.
Colt really upped their game in '08 with the .154" pins, then in '09 they got rid of the hideous LE/GOV marks. There is no arguing a Defender 2000 ba 6920. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - LMT versus Colt (Page 1 of 3)
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