AR Sponsor
Posted: 7/24/2014 12:03:29 PM EDT
|
I'm interested in getting a new high quality AR15 ; it will be my first AR.
I want the Colt LE6920 M4 carbine with carrier handle but I'm finding it difficult to get that at any local Gunshops. I'm intrigued by Windham and I wonder if their quality is comparable. I'd like the MPC. Anyone have any experience/ views on Windham. |
|
Quality comparisons can be very subjective, so what is listed below is my opinion, and that's it.
Long answer: Windham Weaponry is a company started by the former owner of Bushmaster after he sold Bushmaster to a conglomerate and the conglomerate shut down the facility and moved it out of state. Many of the same employees supposedly work at the plant today. This means that Windham does have some real experience in the AR market and they seem to build a good rifle. I'm not familiar with their MPC product, but I'm sure the quality is fine. From the spec sheet, I would have some questions that would help with the comparison of the two. I would want to know if it is a commercial or mil-spec buffer tube. The mil-spec ones tend to have more stocks available. I have both and I can't say, outside of the availablitiy of stocks, that one is necessarily better than the other. I've never had a problem with either. I would also want to know the specs on the BCG. Specifically, has the BCG been HPT/MPI tested. I do not see that listed on the spec sheet. I do consider that added value, personally. Colt, to me, is a very well made rifle. The company has decades of experience in making them, as well as this little organization called the DOD for testing. I consider them a lithmus test for other rifles when I buy one. Can you buy a better rifle than a Colt? I think so, but Colt makes a solid rifle that will hold up through tough conditions and the design/spec is proven. They also hold resale value very well. Colt also offers a 1:7 twist barrel versus the Windham 1:9 twist. If you prefer to shoot heavy ammo, such as the 77gr Mk262 equivalent, you may want to go with the Colt. The Windham may be able to shoot it, but there is less probabilty that it can do so effectively than the Colt, simply due to the twist rate. Colt also offers HPT/MPI BCGs, which adds value in my eyes. All in all, I would go for the Colt. It will hold value and is a solid rifle. You will have a harder time finding one with a carry handle, as I think that is not a standard accessory now. You may have to buy an aftermarket one. Do be aware that Colts are known to come from the factory with "imperfections" or scratches. Colt is known for not necessarily having the most squeaky clean rifles. That is not to say that you can't find a nice one with no marks, it's simply that there is a higher probablility of getting one with blemishes. I've seen Colts on here going for as low as $850 through certain dealers on sale, so that should more than make up for the purchase of a carry handle, and I think you would have a better, overall, rifle/investment. BTW, don't be surprised if this thread starts a little purse swinging fight. They have a tendancy to do that when discussing which rifle is "better quality" than the other. Short answer: I would buy the Colt for the same money and go buy a carry handle. You won't, necessarily, go wrong with the Windham, though. |
|
You comparing apples to oranges. Colt is tier I and Windham is tier II. Both are very good rifles for their price. Generally speaking, Tier I AR's are Mil-Spec and Tier II are mostly Mil-Spec. FN makes a Tier I rifle that comes with a carry handle. FN also makes the M16's & M4's for the military and is my personal preference. If its too pricy for you, Palmetto State Armory sells uppers (Premium and Cold Hammer Forged) with FN barrels for next to nothing that are outstanding, especially the CHF. |
|
Quoted:
I'm interested in getting a new high quality AR15 ; it will be my first AR. I want the Colt LE6920 M4 carbine with carrier handle but I'm finding it difficult to get that at any local Gunshops. I'm intrigued by Windham and I wonder if their quality is comparable. I'd like the MPC. Anyone have any experience/ views on Windham. Colt has not shipped the 6920 with a carry handle for quite some time now. You can always pick up a mil-spec carry handle at a reputable shop if you really want one. Not hating on WW but they are not comparable to the Colt, different league. |
|
The colt is the better gun, but that's not to say the WW dosent have some things going for it.
WW has better customer service with an active industry rep that will take care of you quickly. If you have an issue. WW will also most likely will have a flawless finish. A lot of people yell that this does not matter, but it should. I wanna put the imperfection through use, not some union working being sloppy. When I put my lower together it was the first time and I didn't leave any marks... Why is it ok for people who do it for a living to? Also IMO HPT is no longer needed and IS a form of destructive testing. So to me I give the edge to the WW here as they MPI everything and do not HPT. Now, the Colt wins with a 7075 T6 reciever extension, H buffer, F marked FSB, 1/7 twist barrel, T marked upper reciever and staked castle nut. Colt also win the "prestige" aware since everyone know Colt, so resale will most likely be better. Everything else the guns are the same. Cept the MPC comes with the carry handle when the Colt does not anymore. The guns are not that far apart, IMO but I'f pay the $200 more for the Colt. |
|
Windham Weaponry is an excellent company and the MPC is the one to go with. You will never have an issue with your MPC. While Colt is known for the AR platform, there are others who manufacture a quality rifle these days. We all know the history of Colt and their buying the rights to the AR, military contracts etc. Mil-spec? I have mil-spec mags and don't use them...most of us use P-mags which aren't mil-spec. The Colt parts are better? Interesting...which ones? The Windham upper and lowers have the same keyhole symbol as the Colt. Enter the MP/HP comment. Bet my carpenter 158 holds up just as good. Buffer tubes? Who cares...been here for years and NEVER heard a commercial tube issue unless one wishes to have 2 less positions to adjust to as with "mil-spec".
Which parts are left? Barrels are the same 4150...oh wait no! Colt has the finish under the front sight. Not good enough yet? Ok the warrior thing. Watch Dallas SWAT on C&I, they have snakes on their rifles..the episodes are pre 2011. WW is the old Bushmaster; same employees great rifles and every bit as good as "tier 1" who ever came up with that. |
|
We have an MPC in the house, it is my son's. Good little rifle, and he is putting the torture to it. He is somewhere around 3000 rounds, now, and yet to clean it. Just some SlipEWL.
It doesn't appear to be overgassed, as heavily reported here. I immediately handed him an H2, because we all know they are overgassed  He actually had a few FTF with PMC Bronze, so we stuck the H back in it.
I am not fond of the commercial RE, but it's his rifle. He has free reign of my safes, and knows how all my ARs are assembled, but he has kept it stock other than changing out the Diamondhead rear sight for a Matech. We had a 6920, and I have several ARs of good quality, so this isn't a defendwhatIbought post, at all. It has just been a well built, clean little rifle. When and if we experience any of the dreaded issues that are thought to occur, I will be the first one here posting about it. I don't think a guy can go wrong by picking one up. If Windham would put a good milspec RE on the damn thing, I think they would have a hit. |
|
I too own a FLAWLESS Windham Weaponry MPC. I too was considering the 6920 but I was sold by the Windham story as well as the excellent customer service behind their lifetime warranty 2-300$ cheaper never hurt either when you're on a budget I've shot at least 5-600 rounds through it including a 40 round dump after it was already hot. No problems at all other than a very warm barrel. I keep it oiled but it has yet to have a failure that wasn't my fault (not seating the mag properly) As far as barrel twists go do some homework and figure out what you want out of the rifle. As far as buffers you should research that as well. The way I understand it is that the H buffer is a band aid to an over gassed rifle and a standard carbine buffer is all that you should need if it's in spec. My rifle doesn't show signs of being over gassed either. Brass is never dinged and again the rifle cycles flawlessly. Standard carbine buffer and whatever stock buffer spring. Don't be fooled by the colt koolaid either. Every company has duds and things that fall throu the cracks. And colt is no exception.
Either rifle will serve you well and you can't go wrong between the two. Buy one, a few pmags and a bunch of ammo and shoot the shit out of it |
|
Colt - bad fit and finish on there rifles , bad customer service , your paying more for less quality ! (resale value is better because colts living off there name )
Windham - perfect fit and finish , lifetime warranty , customer service is top notch , price point for Windham rifles are awesome . Everything is mil spec , except buffer tube which is commercial , barrels are air gauged and bore scoped, chrome lined barrels are better than colts ! |
|
Quoted:
Thank you very much very informative as I try to make the right selection. And Colt resale value can never be discounted- excited to continue my search n your analysis is helpful Thanks Your fooling yourself if you think your going to NOT get BRD and sell your AR. Don't buy an AR worried about resale value; keep it for life. A Colt will almost certainly last you a lifetime with proper maintenance. That said, I like Windham Weaponry. I have a C158 bolt from them that is batch tested MPI as mentioned above that I'm putting thru the paces. It's a fine bolt. I also like Windham's LPK's for my spare parts bin. However, for the money, you can do a decent bit better than Windham; if your paying MSRP of $1040 or thereabouts. A 6920 can be had for around $900 and a Spikes ST-15 for about the same with FFL fee's included and out the door. Both are as close to Mil-Spec as you can get without a happy switch. So I've owned complete rifles and/or parts from all (3) manufacturers. I also believe you can usually get a Complete PSA carbine for a little more than $700 when they are on sale. PSA is almost always having a sale so you don't have to be patient long. I have a 14.7" PSA branded Cold Hammer Forged barrel and Lower Parts Kits installed on my beater rifle it has been very solid as well. I researched for 1-2 months here on ARFcom before I bought my subsequent AR, then have built/assembled some very fine Mil-Spec rifles the rest myself... That said, my first was a Colt... |
|
Quoted:
Colt - bad fit and finish on there rifles , bad customer service , your paying more for less quality ! (resale value is better because colts living off there name ) Windham - perfect fit and finish , lifetime warranty , customer service is top notch , price point for Windham rifles are awesome . Everything is mil spec , except buffer tube which is commercial , barrels are air gauged and bore scoped, chrome lined barrels are better than colts ! You have no idea what your talking about. |
|
Quoted:
You have no idea what your talking about. Quoted:
Quoted:
Colt - bad fit and finish on there rifles , bad customer service , your paying more for less quality ! (resale value is better because colts living off there name ) Windham - perfect fit and finish , lifetime warranty , customer service is top notch , price point for Windham rifles are awesome . Everything is mil spec , except buffer tube which is commercial , barrels are air gauged and bore scoped, chrome lined barrels are better than colts ! You have no idea what your talking about. Can you elaborate? I'm interested in this discussion as well. |
|
Quoted:
Colt - bad fit and finish on there rifles , bad customer service , your paying more for less quality ! (resale value is better because colts living off there name ) Windham - perfect fit and finish , lifetime warranty , customer service is top notch , price point for Windham rifles are awesome . Everything is mil spec , except buffer tube which is commercial , barrels are air gauged and bore scoped, chrome lined barrels are better than colts ! Do you have first hand knowledge of this or are you just repeating stuff from the Internet? You can get Colts for around $800. these days that look just fine. I'm not knocking the Windham guns because I don't have one and haven't closely examined any. However, I don't believe the Colt is a lesser quality gun than the Windham. |
|
Quoted:
I have been nothing but incredibly impressed with my windham SRC. Windham puts out a pretty solid rifle for the money. If your not bothered by several of it's parts being commercial or the 1/9 twist barrel then it's a good rifle for that person. If I ended up with one on a trade I would switch the commercial parts for mil-spec parts and leave the barrel as is. There is nothing wrong with that... |
|
Quoted:
Do you have first hand knowledge of this or are you just repeating stuff from the Internet? You can get Colts for around $800. these days that look just fine. I'm not knocking the Windham guns because I don't have one and haven't closely examined any. However, I don't believe the Colt is a lesser quality gun than the Windham. Quoted:
Quoted:
Colt - bad fit and finish on there rifles , bad customer service , your paying more for less quality ! (resale value is better because colts living off there name ) Windham - perfect fit and finish , lifetime warranty , customer service is top notch , price point for Windham rifles are awesome . Everything is mil spec , except buffer tube which is commercial , barrels are air gauged and bore scoped, chrome lined barrels are better than colts ! Do you have first hand knowledge of this or are you just repeating stuff from the Internet? You can get Colts for around $800. these days that look just fine. I'm not knocking the Windham guns because I don't have one and haven't closely examined any. However, I don't believe the Colt is a lesser quality gun than the Windham. That's because the Colt is NOT of lesser quality than a Windham... |
|
Quoted:
That's because the Colt is NOT of lesser quality than a Windham... Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Colt - bad fit and finish on there rifles , bad customer service , your paying more for less quality ! (resale value is better because colts living off there name ) Windham - perfect fit and finish , lifetime warranty , customer service is top notch , price point for Windham rifles are awesome . Everything is mil spec , except buffer tube which is commercial , barrels are air gauged and bore scoped, chrome lined barrels are better than colts ! Do you have first hand knowledge of this or are you just repeating stuff from the Internet? You can get Colts for around $800. these days that look just fine. I'm not knocking the Windham guns because I don't have one and haven't closely examined any. However, I don't believe the Colt is a lesser quality gun than the Windham. That's because the Colt is NOT of lesser quality than a Windham... Colt is no longer the King of ARs. Many new manufacturers, and some older ones, have really stepped up the game. Now a days, you can buy a good quality AR like the S&W M&P-15 Sport for less than $600. A lot of really good ARs are in the $700-$800 range. Even Colt has had to drop pricing to compete with comparable ARs. Windham Weaponry is a new company, but not new at the AR game. When Bushmaster was sold off to Freedom Group and the manufacturing plant moved out of town, the local gunsmiths cried in unison “screw you guys, we’re starting our own manufacturing company!” Using the skills and techniques learned from years on the Bushmaster assembly line, Windham Weaponry set to work producing AR-15 rifles targeted for the same market that their former corporate overlords were now dominating. CORE15 is another viable AR manufacturer as are many others. These days, the playing field is a lot more level that it use to be. You are still going to have the premier lines of ARs like the ones from LWRC, LaRue Tactical, Noveske, BCM, LMT, Daniel Defense, and a few others. Just to clear the air about one thing, there is no "tier" system. You will see some use this term and it has been around for quite a while. There is even a chart that was compiled by a fellow on M4carbine.net some years ago. It is not an industry supported item. Also, the term "mil-spec" gets thrown around a lot. Unless you are building a weapon in which you are going to battle with, "mil-spec" parts are not that important. When something is "mil-spec" it meets the minimum standard in order to comply with DoD standards. If something is not "mil-spec", it will work just fine and in some cases, much better. It just depends on how it is made regardless of the name on it. "Mil-spec" buffer tubes and stocks are great, but not necessary for the function of an AR. "mil-spec" tubes are made of heavier aluminum and more durable under rigorous use. "Mil-spec" LPKs are just fine and there is nothing wrong with the "mil-spec" FCG. Having a well constructed barrel is important, again, if you are going to battle with the weapon. I like my barrels to at least meet these standards: •M4 Feed Ramp Barrel Extension (USGI) •USGI 1/7 Twist Rates •USGI 5.56 NATO Chambers •Mil-Spec 11595E - Barrel Steel (CMV) •Chrome Lined Bore and Chamber •Manganese Phosphate Barrel Finish •HPT (High Pressure Test) •MPI (Magnetic Particle Inspected). There is nothing wrong with a 1/9 5.56 NATO chrome-moly barrel. I will get the job done, but will not hold up like the better barrels do over a long period of hard use. Again, Windham Weaponry builds a fine AR. With the Colt costing $200 more, I would feel a lot better buy a Windham. |
|
I have never owned a Windham (nor do i care to) but I have owned a Windham made Bushmaster and it was nothing to brag about really. The three rifles that I would buy today would be Noveske (SS barrels only), KAC, and Colt. I don't see much reason to buy anything else unless I am doing a specific build.
Quoted:
I would buy the WW because of their gunsmithing. Any part you buy from them, they will install no charge... I also install all the parts I buy for free
I really wouldn't want to ship my rifle off every time i wanted to put something new on it. That is pretty legit of them tho |
|
Quoted:
You've got to handle both rifles yourself to make the decision. Fan boy comments will cloud your mind Great advice. I never buy anything on what someone else says. Listen. Then make up your own mind. I also seriously question the tier1, tier 2 etc. ratings. With all of the excellent AR's being manufactured today I don't see the guns as tier rated. More the owners are the tiers. |
AR Sponsor