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Posted: 1/18/2014 4:16:34 PM EDT
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Before anyone tells me to just do my own research, I have spent hours researching and speaking to many people but still have been unable to make my decision.
I am looking to buy my first AR15, and I have narrowed it down to 3 different rifles. Looking to get either a Daniel Defense M4 V5, DD M4 V7, or a Smith and Wesson M&P 15T. I know all of them are fine rifles but I have heard of Daniel Defense's quality being worth the extra money. I have found the V5 at $1385, the V7 at $1275, and the M&P at $950. Is the quality and parts that come in the Daniel Defense worth the extra money over the M&P? Also is there a real need for a full quadrail or will the lightweight rail system on the V7 be sufficient? And finally, is a free float barrel reason enough to get the DD over the S&W? Thanks |
FYI, the S&W M&P is cheaper for a reason- barrel and bolt are not MPI or HPT and the bolt is of the enhanced variety not the full-auto bolt. However, they are good reliable rifles they will shoot just fine. If you are going to do A LOT of shooting with this rifle then def get a DD; they also come with a life-time warranty 
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Those DD's are also in Bravo Company and Spikes territory cost wise. It may be worth a little more of your time to do a little more research.
That being said out of your options I would choose the DD v5. It's a really nice rifle and pretty much guaranteed to please. The v7 is usually cheaper. Same quality just no rails. A local pawn shop has one I was looking at earlier today. Price tag was under $1100. Seemed like a great rifle for the money. I just don't care for tubed fore ends. Maybe another thing to consider is checking out the used market for a while and see what pops up. You can get a whole lot of rifle buying used for that kind of money. |
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FYI, the S&W M&P is cheaper for a reason- barrel and bolt are not MPI or HPT and the bolt is of the enhanced variety not the full-auto bolt. However, they are good reliable rifles they will shoot just fine. If you are going to do A LOT of shooting with this rifle then def get a DD; they also come with a life-time warranty Barrel is also only 4140. I would get the M4V7 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just because I love throwing in Spikes rifles for value, This $760 Spikes midlength upper with 12" rail http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Spike_s_Tactical_16_Midlength_Upper_LE_w_12_BAR_p/sp-stu5035-r2s.htm plus this $260 Spikes lower http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/SPIKE_S_TACTICAL_COMPLETE_LOWER_M4_STOCK_STLC200_p/sp-stlc200-sbs.htm $1020 total before adding sights of choice. |
| There are other rifles I would look at in that price point, but of the three, Id go with the V7. Unless you are an operator, and putting a load of stuff on you rifle, you will get tired of the quad rail pretty quick. It looks cool, but it is uncomfortable, and adds weight. There is a reason why the majority of major manufacturers are moving toward the key-mod or some other system. Its all about comfort and putting rail sections only where you need them. |
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There are other rifles I would look at in that price point, but of the three, Id go with the V7. Unless you are an operator, and putting a load of stuff on you rifle, you will get tired of the quad rail pretty quick. It looks cool, but it is uncomfortable, and adds weight. There is a reason why the majority of major manufacturers are moving toward the key-mod or some other system. Its all about comfort and putting rail sections only where you need them. I haven't seen any mass movement to alternatives. I see lots of company's offering key mod in addition to their current railed offerings. There are plenty of us that don't hang a bunch of stuff off our guns that love our quads. I would bet that key mod is still dwarfed in sales compared to the overall sales of full railed systems. I think key mod is here to stay but theres no mass exodus to it. Keep in mind when you visit sites like these that we as a whole are gun nerds and hungry for the latest and greatest. I would not assume we make up any substantial portion of overall ar owners in this country. I do not believe that what we see here is an accurate representation of the majority. |
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I haven't seen any mass movement to alternatives. I see lots of company's offering key mod in addition to their current railed offerings. There are plenty of us that don't hang a bunch of stuff off our guns that love our quads. I would bet that key mod is still dwarfed in sales compared to the overall sales of full railed systems. I think key mod is here to stay but theres no mass exodus to it. Keep in mind when you visit sites like these that we as a whole are gun nerds and hungry for the latest and greatest. I would not assume we make up any substantial portion of overall ar owners in this country. I do not believe that what we see here is an accurate representation of the majority. Quoted:
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There are other rifles I would look at in that price point, but of the three, Id go with the V7. Unless you are an operator, and putting a load of stuff on you rifle, you will get tired of the quad rail pretty quick. It looks cool, but it is uncomfortable, and adds weight. There is a reason why the majority of major manufacturers are moving toward the key-mod or some other system. Its all about comfort and putting rail sections only where you need them. I haven't seen any mass movement to alternatives. I see lots of company's offering key mod in addition to their current railed offerings. There are plenty of us that don't hang a bunch of stuff off our guns that love our quads. I would bet that key mod is still dwarfed in sales compared to the overall sales of full railed systems. I think key mod is here to stay but theres no mass exodus to it. Keep in mind when you visit sites like these that we as a whole are gun nerds and hungry for the latest and greatest. I would not assume we make up any substantial portion of overall ar owners in this country. I do not believe that what we see here is an accurate representation of the majority. Cheese graters are functional, and they will always be around, but they are an old solution to an old problem (IMHO). When everyone had Carbine's all you had was 7 inches of to cover. Back then a quad rail was a good solution - maximize your interface on so littler surface area. As handgaurds have gotten longer, the utility of a 360 railed surface that is 10 to 15 inches long is weak. It's unnecessarily large and usually heavy. Naked tubes (Ex: Troy Alpha, Centurion CMR types) with picitanny inserts and Keymod are the next evolution. Even better - the magnesium alloy Keymod that BCM is coming out with looks fantastic. 7.7 oz for rail and barrel nut combined on a 13 inch rail. For comparison the Centurion C4 12 inch rail: Weight: 15.3oz with standard barrel nut. So the BCM rail is longer, significantly lighter (by half a pound), and cheaper ($269) than a cheese grater rail. Cheese grater is a hard sell at this point. |
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Cheese graters are functional, and they will always be around, but they are an old solution to an old problem (IMHO). When everyone had Carbine's all you had was 7 inches of to cover. Back then a quad rail was a good solution - maximize your interface on so littler surface area. As handgaurds have gotten longer, the utility of a 360 railed surface that is 10 to 15 inches long is weak. It's unnecessarily large and usually heavy. Naked tubes (Ex: Troy Alpha, Centurion CMR types) with picitanny inserts and Keymod are the next evolution. Even better - the magnesium alloy Keymod that BCM is coming out with looks fantastic. 7.7 oz for rail and barrel nut combined on a 13 inch rail. For comparison the Centurion C4 12 inch rail: Weight: 15.3oz with standard barrel nut. So the BCM rail is longer (1 inch), lighter (< 1/2 the weight), and cheaper ($269) than a cheese grater rail. Cheese grater is a hard sell at this point. Quoted:
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There are other rifles I would look at in that price point, but of the three, Id go with the V7. Unless you are an operator, and putting a load of stuff on you rifle, you will get tired of the quad rail pretty quick. It looks cool, but it is uncomfortable, and adds weight. There is a reason why the majority of major manufacturers are moving toward the key-mod or some other system. Its all about comfort and putting rail sections only where you need them. I haven't seen any mass movement to alternatives. I see lots of company's offering key mod in addition to their current railed offerings. There are plenty of us that don't hang a bunch of stuff off our guns that love our quads. I would bet that key mod is still dwarfed in sales compared to the overall sales of full railed systems. I think key mod is here to stay but theres no mass exodus to it. Keep in mind when you visit sites like these that we as a whole are gun nerds and hungry for the latest and greatest. I would not assume we make up any substantial portion of overall ar owners in this country. I do not believe that what we see here is an accurate representation of the majority. Cheese graters are functional, and they will always be around, but they are an old solution to an old problem (IMHO). When everyone had Carbine's all you had was 7 inches of to cover. Back then a quad rail was a good solution - maximize your interface on so littler surface area. As handgaurds have gotten longer, the utility of a 360 railed surface that is 10 to 15 inches long is weak. It's unnecessarily large and usually heavy. Naked tubes (Ex: Troy Alpha, Centurion CMR types) with picitanny inserts and Keymod are the next evolution. Even better - the magnesium alloy Keymod that BCM is coming out with looks fantastic. 7.7 oz for rail and barrel nut combined on a 13 inch rail. For comparison the Centurion C4 12 inch rail: Weight: 15.3oz with standard barrel nut. So the BCM rail is longer (1 inch), lighter (< 1/2 the weight), and cheaper ($269) than a cheese grater rail. Cheese grater is a hard sell at this point. Subjective on the looks part. While that BCM definitely looks better than most It looks horrible to me and if its any where near the diameter of the others available now its too damned skinny. I do think paired with the rail covers they have for it it looks rather spiffy. I don't run bare rails because they get hot. I cant run my attachments on it without adding rail sections which make it just as bulky up front as my c4 rail. The little bit of weight savings from the few inches of missing rail near the receiver would be very little weight wise for me. I'd wind up covering half the tube in rails just adding more weight. I would like to see some quads in the new alloy though. That would peak my interest for sure. Rails also offer something slick tube do not. Excellent grip in less than ideal conditions. I can see the draw for weight savings if you run your rifle slick or with very minimum attachments I just wish there way a way to make them a larger diameter and still be able to attach things with really making it bulky. I guess we have derailed this thread enough. Hopefully the op found what he was looking for before we went astray. |
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Subjective on the looks part. While that BCM definitely looks better than most It looks horrible to me and if its any where near the diameter of the others available now its too damned skinny. I do think paired with the rail covers they have for it it looks rather spiffy. I don't run bare rails because they get hot. I cant run my attachments on it without adding rail sections which make it just as bulky up front as my c4 rail. The little bit of weight savings from the few inches of missing rail near the receiver would be very little weight wise for me. I'd wind up covering half the tube in rails just adding more weight. I would like to see some quads in the new alloy though. That would peak my interest for sure. Rails also offer something slick tube do not. Excellent grip in less than ideal conditions. I can see the draw for weight savings if you run your rifle slick or with very minimum attachments I just wish there way a way to make them a larger diameter and still be able to attach things with really making it bulky. I guess we have derailed this thread enough. Hopefully the op found what he was looking for before we went astray. Quoted:
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There are other rifles I would look at in that price point, but of the three, Id go with the V7. Unless you are an operator, and putting a load of stuff on you rifle, you will get tired of the quad rail pretty quick. It looks cool, but it is uncomfortable, and adds weight. There is a reason why the majority of major manufacturers are moving toward the key-mod or some other system. Its all about comfort and putting rail sections only where you need them. I haven't seen any mass movement to alternatives. I see lots of company's offering key mod in addition to their current railed offerings. There are plenty of us that don't hang a bunch of stuff off our guns that love our quads. I would bet that key mod is still dwarfed in sales compared to the overall sales of full railed systems. I think key mod is here to stay but theres no mass exodus to it. Keep in mind when you visit sites like these that we as a whole are gun nerds and hungry for the latest and greatest. I would not assume we make up any substantial portion of overall ar owners in this country. I do not believe that what we see here is an accurate representation of the majority. Cheese graters are functional, and they will always be around, but they are an old solution to an old problem (IMHO). When everyone had Carbine's all you had was 7 inches of to cover. Back then a quad rail was a good solution - maximize your interface on so littler surface area. As handgaurds have gotten longer, the utility of a 360 railed surface that is 10 to 15 inches long is weak. It's unnecessarily large and usually heavy. Naked tubes (Ex: Troy Alpha, Centurion CMR types) with picitanny inserts and Keymod are the next evolution. Even better - the magnesium alloy Keymod that BCM is coming out with looks fantastic. 7.7 oz for rail and barrel nut combined on a 13 inch rail. For comparison the Centurion C4 12 inch rail: Weight: 15.3oz with standard barrel nut. So the BCM rail is longer (1 inch), lighter (< 1/2 the weight), and cheaper ($269) than a cheese grater rail. Cheese grater is a hard sell at this point. Subjective on the looks part. While that BCM definitely looks better than most It looks horrible to me and if its any where near the diameter of the others available now its too damned skinny. I do think paired with the rail covers they have for it it looks rather spiffy. I don't run bare rails because they get hot. I cant run my attachments on it without adding rail sections which make it just as bulky up front as my c4 rail. The little bit of weight savings from the few inches of missing rail near the receiver would be very little weight wise for me. I'd wind up covering half the tube in rails just adding more weight. I would like to see some quads in the new alloy though. That would peak my interest for sure. Rails also offer something slick tube do not. Excellent grip in less than ideal conditions. I can see the draw for weight savings if you run your rifle slick or with very minimum attachments I just wish there way a way to make them a larger diameter and still be able to attach things with really making it bulky. I guess we have derailed this thread enough. Hopefully the op found what he was looking for before we went astray. Your rationale: - Looks: Ok ... - Heat: See these super lightweight polymer heat shields that offer grip. 
- Grip: See above picture. Also, no one had grip issues for decades with plastic hand guards - Attachments: You don't attach a rail to key mod, you attach directly to it through key mod interface. If you like your big heavy cheese grater that's fine. I see you got your first rifle less than a year ago. As you shoot more you're tastes will evolve. |
| I would and have gone with the DDM4 V5 (mine has the LW profile), the DDM4 rail is not what I would call heavy and is thee exception to the rule when. Sure the BCM KMR is a slick system but I promise you It will get much hotter much quicker than a DDM4 rail which is a major consideration as far as I'm concerned. Either way you can't go wrong with the DD's, if you want to spend less I'd get a Colt 6920 over the M&P, but tahrs just me. |
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Your rationale: - Looks: Ok ... - Heat: See these super lightweight polymer heat shields that offer grip. http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh515/EAG_TACTICAL/Des%20Mines%20COC%20Sept13/DSC_9948_zpse24ac445.jpg - Grip: See above picture. Also, no one had grip issues for decades with plastic hand guards - Attachments: You don't attach a rail to key mod, you attach directly to it through key mod interface. If you like your big heavy cheese grater that's fine. I see you got your first rifle less than a year ago. As you shoot more you're tastes will evolve. Quoted:
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There are other rifles I would look at in that price point, but of the three, Id go with the V7. Unless you are an operator, and putting a load of stuff on you rifle, you will get tired of the quad rail pretty quick. It looks cool, but it is uncomfortable, and adds weight. There is a reason why the majority of major manufacturers are moving toward the key-mod or some other system. Its all about comfort and putting rail sections only where you need them. I haven't seen any mass movement to alternatives. I see lots of company's offering key mod in addition to their current railed offerings. There are plenty of us that don't hang a bunch of stuff off our guns that love our quads. I would bet that key mod is still dwarfed in sales compared to the overall sales of full railed systems. I think key mod is here to stay but theres no mass exodus to it. Keep in mind when you visit sites like these that we as a whole are gun nerds and hungry for the latest and greatest. I would not assume we make up any substantial portion of overall ar owners in this country. I do not believe that what we see here is an accurate representation of the majority. Cheese graters are functional, and they will always be around, but they are an old solution to an old problem (IMHO). When everyone had Carbine's all you had was 7 inches of to cover. Back then a quad rail was a good solution - maximize your interface on so littler surface area. As handgaurds have gotten longer, the utility of a 360 railed surface that is 10 to 15 inches long is weak. It's unnecessarily large and usually heavy. Naked tubes (Ex: Troy Alpha, Centurion CMR types) with picitanny inserts and Keymod are the next evolution. Even better - the magnesium alloy Keymod that BCM is coming out with looks fantastic. 7.7 oz for rail and barrel nut combined on a 13 inch rail. For comparison the Centurion C4 12 inch rail: Weight: 15.3oz with standard barrel nut. So the BCM rail is longer (1 inch), lighter (< 1/2 the weight), and cheaper ($269) than a cheese grater rail. Cheese grater is a hard sell at this point. Subjective on the looks part. While that BCM definitely looks better than most It looks horrible to me and if its any where near the diameter of the others available now its too damned skinny. I do think paired with the rail covers they have for it it looks rather spiffy. I don't run bare rails because they get hot. I cant run my attachments on it without adding rail sections which make it just as bulky up front as my c4 rail. The little bit of weight savings from the few inches of missing rail near the receiver would be very little weight wise for me. I'd wind up covering half the tube in rails just adding more weight. I would like to see some quads in the new alloy though. That would peak my interest for sure. Rails also offer something slick tube do not. Excellent grip in less than ideal conditions. I can see the draw for weight savings if you run your rifle slick or with very minimum attachments I just wish there way a way to make them a larger diameter and still be able to attach things with really making it bulky. I guess we have derailed this thread enough. Hopefully the op found what he was looking for before we went astray. Your rationale: - Looks: Ok ... - Heat: See these super lightweight polymer heat shields that offer grip. http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh515/EAG_TACTICAL/Des%20Mines%20COC%20Sept13/DSC_9948_zpse24ac445.jpg - Grip: See above picture. Also, no one had grip issues for decades with plastic hand guards - Attachments: You don't attach a rail to key mod, you attach directly to it through key mod interface. If you like your big heavy cheese grater that's fine. I see you got your first rifle less than a year ago. As you shoot more you're tastes will evolve. My biggest gripe is diameter and attachments. When people start offering a larger tube and more mounts that directly attach to the keymod without the use of rail sections I will surely be revisiting key mod. Its just not there for me yet. |
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