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11/23/2012 4:37:35 AM EDT
Did a search but found nothing. Do the current 6920"s have the sear block? Wife had to work Thanksgiving so she gets extra 10% off our normal 10% discount. Grandson may be looking at a new Colt for his 1st CHRISTMAS. Thanks
11/23/2012 4:38:37 AM EDT
[#1]
They do not have a sear block.
11/23/2012 5:18:10 AM EDT
[#2]
how about the sear web machined in vs a pinned in sear block.

sear block


sear web


Mark
11/23/2012 5:56:36 AM EDT
[#3]
Yes they do.
11/23/2012 6:15:04 AM EDT
[#4]
That's what I thought. My A3 tactical carbine lower (AR6721) has the sear web. I think they have permanently done away with the pin in block and stuck with the sear web as it is an easier anwer to an non-existent problem that they appear to be the only one concerned about (likely to appease some form of back door deal with the gov't) - I may be wrong though.

Mark
11/23/2012 6:25:48 AM EDT
[#5]
mine does.


Bought it last weekend
11/23/2012 6:52:21 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
That's what I thought. My A3 tactical carbine lower (AR6721) has the sear web. I think they have permanently done away with the pin in block and stuck with the sear web as it is an easier anwer to an non-existent problem that they appear to be the only one concerned about (likely to appease some form of back door deal with the gov't) - I may be wrong though.

Mark


Yes, that's exactly what it is.  

What grade of tin foil do you guys use up in Canada to make your hats?  Can you get the high quality, heavy duty Reynolds like we can here?  Or is it regulated by ITAR?

~Augee
11/23/2012 1:13:18 PM EDT
[#7]
Alcan is up here too Augee! we have some good stuff up here

So I take it I am off on that remark...any clarification would be good.

Mark
11/23/2012 1:34:51 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Did a search but found nothing. Do the current 6920"s have the sear block? Wife had to work Thanksgiving so she gets extra 10% off our normal 10% discount. Grandson may be looking at a new Colt for his 1st CHRISTMAS. Thanks


Your question has been answered, just curious why it matters?  Is it a deal breaker?  None of the receivers out there these days have "mil spec" internal dimensions.

I know that some aftermarket triggers have had issues with the old sear blocks, but that's all.
11/23/2012 4:17:52 PM EDT
[#9]
Tactical Concepts nailed it with pictures.  The web is current production, the Colt block is old school.
11/23/2012 4:51:48 PM EDT
[#10]
Dremel it out if it bothers you.
11/23/2012 5:38:06 PM EDT
[#11]
Colt introduced the web in the mid '90s, when it replaced the much-hated sear block (which was only in use for 6-to-8 years).
11/24/2012 4:11:40 AM EDT
[#12]
The reason I asked , the "1" piece drop in trigger group will not fit with the web,correct me if I'm wrong. One of my colts has a jewell so I don't have a problem withe normal trigs but was thinking about all the different ones out there.
11/24/2012 9:49:07 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Alcan is up here too Augee! we have some good stuff up here

So I take it I am off on that remark...any clarification would be good.

Mark


Hmmm, is that like Reynolds-Canada?  

Whether you agree with their practices or like the company or not - suggesting that they did it because of some "back door government deal" sounds like gun show gossip to me - as I've mentioned in other threads - unless grossly marked up - Colts usually offer a lower profit margin to most dealers, making them unpopular stock with gun shop proprietors, and fodder for many rumors intended to persuade customers to purchase other makes and models.  

Either way - the thing to remember is that when Colt started producing AR15s for the commercial market, they were not just "a" manufacturer producing "assault weapons" for the commercial market - they were the mainstream manufacturer of commercial "assault weapons."  

Given the BATF's stance on what constitutes a "machine gun," including the installation of any "machine gun parts," as well as their tendency to do go to ridiculous lengths and using questionable practices to make semi-automatic firearms "run away" or double, Colt, in order to get the SP1 approved for commercial sale made some modifications to ensure that they would not be liable for the "illegal conversion" of commercial weapons into machine guns, hence the large pivot pins, and upper without the sear relief.  

The commercial market being what it was of course, prior to GCA '86 and the ban of new machine guns for civilians, many companies came up with new and innovative ways to make the SP1 design into a machine gun, with things like the Lightning Link and DIAS that could be easily installed, the FCG changed out, and a machine gun manufactured.  

When the '94 AWB did come about, it wasn't fly by night legislation that caught everyone by surprise - it was in the works for quite some time.  Again, Colt was the major mainstream manufacturer of assault weapons, and very much in the proverbial crosshairs of the AWB.  Not wanting to be legislated out of business, Colt attempted to stay "ahead" of the legislation by using its best guesses at what would ultimately be banned, and trying to remove themselves from the hot seat.  

They correctly foresaw that certain cosmetic features would be banned, and began shaving bayonet lugs.  Furthermore, as this was post GCA '86, new machine gun conversions were illegal.  In order to avoid the accusations of producing weapons "easily convertible to full automatic," they had to again adjust to what was available.  The SP1 had originally been released with a semi-auto carrier lacking the length to trip a military auto sear.  The Lightning Link now requires this carrier, because it was designed for it.  Now, LLs are not difficult things to make - I won't go any further than that.  But in a "standard" SP1 configuration, all it would take is the installation of the appropriate FCG and an illegal homemade LL.  Same with the DIAS - more complicated than the LL, but still, not a terribly complicated piece of machinery, meaning that current production, big hole Colts were "readily convertible to full automatic" with no more manufacturing capability than hand tools.  

The late Sporter modifications such as larger FCG pins and "half-moon" carriers came about then to not only avoid the use of military surplus automatic parts - but also of unregistered LLs and DIAS.

While smaller outfits like Sendra or the former Quality Parts of Windham, Maine could get away with not making as drastic modifications, they were barely a blip on anyone's radar, but because Colt was so high profile as a purveyor of assault weapons in a rabidly anti-gun legislature, media, and populace, if they wanted to stay in business, they needed to show some sort of effort to appease the masses calling for their immediate burning at the stake.  Who back then had heard of "Eagle Arms" or "PWA."  Ask a non-gun owner to name gun companies - Colt will be in the top five they name.  

What almost entirely debunks the claim that Colt did any of this as a result of some secret government deal is:

a) their efforts ultimately failed - despite their attempts to anticipate the terms of the AWB - the final '94 AWB banned both the Colt AR-15 and SPORTER by name, one would think that if they had made a backdoor deal - they would have fared better than to have their flagship long gun line identified and banned by name in the legislation.  

b) it's unlikely that a deal was for government contracts, either, as this was during the time Colt was losing M16 contracts to FNMI - you'd think if there was an underground deal, FNMI wouldn't have gotten such a big chunk of M16A2 production.  

During the ban (obviously) every company built ban compliant guns.  Since the sunset, with so many other "mainstream" manufacturers running interference, Colt has begun "upgrading" their commercial line to "milspec," starting with standard size pivot pins even before the ban, captured pivot pins instead of the screws, full weight "M16" carriers, and since 2009 - .154 FCG pins.  

Regarding the hated "sear web," while I am not 100% versed on every single aftermarket trigger assemblies out there - IIRC almost all of the aftermarket triggers available for the AR15 will fit a sear "webbed" Colt lower.  Yes - the sear block interfered with the installation of some aftermarket triggers, but most should not be affected by the sear "web."  

Also, as I've mentioned before - no AR15 lower is compatible with a military auto sear.  Meaning the only issue remaining is the use of an RDIAS.

Yes - Colt lowers with a sear web must be machined before the installation of an RDIAS.  So must every other "high shelf" AR15 lower out there, which includes quite a few of the other "mainstream" commercial brands like ArmaLite, Stag, S&W, and RRA.  Yet, you don't hear quite the same gnashing of teeth and hatred over their non-DIAS compatible lowers as you do over the Colt sear "web."  

Why not?

Because most people have no clue what the sear web even does, what or how an RDIAS, RLL, or M16 sear even works, or what is even involved in a full auto conversion (hint - it's not "filing the sear").  They've been conditioned to hate sear blocks by dealers trying to make more money by encouraging the sale of other manufacturers, and continue to blindly rage against the sear block and spew invective against Colt while buying a no more RDIAS compatible RRA instead because they were told by their dealer that Colt made secret backdoor deals with the government to sell out the little guy for more profit, while completely neglecting to mention their own profit motives, and that's why the sear block is there.  

~Augee
11/24/2012 10:05:55 AM EDT
[#14]
Augee, thanks for the lesson.

Mark
11/24/2012 10:32:55 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Alcan is up here too Augee! we have some good stuff up here

So I take it I am off on that remark...any clarification would be good.

Mark


Hmmm, is that like Reynolds-Canada?  

Whether you agree with their practices or like the company or not - suggesting that they did it because of some "back door government deal" sounds like gun show gossip to me - as I've mentioned in other threads - unless grossly marked up - Colts usually offer a lower profit margin to most dealers, making them unpopular stock with gun shop proprietors, and fodder for many rumors intended to persuade customers to purchase other makes and models.  

Either way - the thing to remember is that when Colt started producing AR15s for the commercial market, they were not just "a" manufacturer producing "assault weapons" for the commercial market - they were the mainstream manufacturer of commercial "assault weapons."  

Given the BATF's stance on what constitutes a "machine gun," including the installation of any "machine gun parts," as well as their tendency to do go to ridiculous lengths and using questionable practices to make semi-automatic firearms "run away" or double, Colt, in order to get the SP1 approved for commercial sale made some modifications to ensure that they would not be liable for the "illegal conversion" of commercial weapons into machine guns, hence the large pivot pins, and upper without the sear relief.  

The commercial market being what it was of course, prior to GCA '86 and the ban of new machine guns for civilians, many companies came up with new and innovative ways to make the SP1 design into a machine gun, with things like the Lightning Link and DIAS that could be easily installed, the FCG changed out, and a machine gun manufactured.  

When the '94 AWB did come about, it wasn't fly by night legislation that caught everyone by surprise - it was in the works for quite some time.  Again, Colt was the major mainstream manufacturer of assault weapons, and very much in the proverbial crosshairs of the AWB.  Not wanting to be legislated out of business, Colt attempted to stay "ahead" of the legislation by using its best guesses at what would ultimately be banned, and trying to remove themselves from the hot seat.  

They correctly foresaw that certain cosmetic features would be banned, and began shaving bayonet lugs.  Furthermore, as this was post GCA '86, new machine gun conversions were illegal.  In order to avoid the accusations of producing weapons "easily convertible to full automatic," they had to again adjust to what was available.  The SP1 had originally been released with a semi-auto carrier lacking the length to trip a military auto sear.  The Lightning Link now requires this carrier, because it was designed for it.  Now, LLs are not difficult things to make - I won't go any further than that.  But in a "standard" SP1 configuration, all it would take is the installation of the appropriate FCG and an illegal homemade LL.  Same with the DIAS - more complicated than the LL, but still, not a terribly complicated piece of machinery, meaning that current production, big hole Colts were "readily convertible to full automatic" with no more manufacturing capability than hand tools.  

The late Sporter modifications such as larger FCG pins and "half-moon" carriers came about then to not only avoid the use of military surplus automatic parts - but also of unregistered LLs and DIAS.

While smaller outfits like Sendra or the former Quality Parts of Windham, Maine could get away with not making as drastic modifications, they were barely a blip on anyone's radar, but because Colt was so high profile as a purveyor of assault weapons in a rabidly anti-gun legislature, media, and populace, if they wanted to stay in business, they needed to show some sort of effort to appease the masses calling for their immediate burning at the stake.  Who back then had heard of "Eagle Arms" or "PWA."  Ask a non-gun owner to name gun companies - Colt will be in the top five they name.  

What almost entirely debunks the claim that Colt did any of this as a result of some secret government deal is:

a) their efforts ultimately failed - despite their attempts to anticipate the terms of the AWB - the final '94 AWB banned both the Colt AR-15 and SPORTER by name, one would think that if they had made a backdoor deal - they would have fared better than to have their flagship long gun line identified and banned by name in the legislation.  

b) it's unlikely that a deal was for government contracts, either, as this was during the time Colt was losing M16 contracts to FNMI - you'd think if there was an underground deal, FNMI wouldn't have gotten such a big chunk of M16A2 production.  

During the ban (obviously) every company built ban compliant guns.  Since the sunset, with so many other "mainstream" manufacturers running interference, Colt has begun "upgrading" their commercial line to "milspec," starting with standard size pivot pins even before the ban, captured pivot pins instead of the screws, full weight "M16" carriers, and since 2009 - .154 FCG pins.  

Regarding the hated "sear web," while I am not 100% versed on every single aftermarket trigger assemblies out there - IIRC almost all of the aftermarket triggers available for the AR15 will fit a sear "webbed" Colt lower.  Yes - the sear block interfered with the installation of some aftermarket triggers, but most should not be affected by the sear "web."  

Also, as I've mentioned before - no AR15 lower is compatible with a military auto sear.  Meaning the only issue remaining is the use of an RDIAS.

Yes - Colt lowers with a sear web must be machined before the installation of an RDIAS.  So must every other "high shelf" AR15 lower out there, which includes quite a few of the other "mainstream" commercial brands like ArmaLite, Stag, S&W, and RRA.  Yet, you don't hear quite the same gnashing of teeth and hatred over their non-DIAS compatible lowers as you do over the Colt sear "web."  

Why not?

Because most people have no clue what the sear web even does, what or how an RDIAS, RLL, or M16 sear even works, or what is even involved in a full auto conversion (hint - it's not "filing the sear").  They've been conditioned to hate sear blocks by dealers trying to make more money by encouraging the sale of other manufacturers, and continue to blindly rage against the sear block and spew invective against Colt while buying a no more RDIAS compatible RRA instead because they were told by their dealer that Colt made secret backdoor deals with the government to sell out the little guy for more profit, while completely neglecting to mention their own profit motives, and that's why the sear block is there.  

~Augee


Good read and also thanhs for the lesson. The new hated for Colts now is the “back door deal" with Walmart
11/24/2012 10:56:28 AM EDT
[#16]
I would GLADLY buy a Colt at a walmart in Canada if they carried them. Unfortunately they would likely add a 500.00 bohica fee if they did.

Mark
11/24/2012 11:39:47 AM EDT
[#17]
I agree with Augee on how all that went down. Immense pressure was applied on Colt during those strange days. And it was a very real issue. I remember going to OR gun shows back then and there were tables full of FA mod kits for AR and AKs. Anyone could buy the drilling template for drilling the needed holes in the receiver to accommodate the FA parts which were also cheaply available on the next table over.

Although the hatred could be considered "blind" by some I think more of it stemmed from the change to non standard FCG pins than the sear block itself. A very real frustration for those desiring the ever important "mil spec" spare parts. Colt enthusiasts can sympathize with that I'm sure. The sear block was simply lumped in with the "hatred" because during those times firearm enthusiasts were feeling a lot of heat much like manufacturers and rightly resented any change forced upon them. It sucked having to accept those neutered Colts back then even though for the most part function really was not affected. There were no drop in trigger pack upgrades available back then so the sear block didn't cause problems in that respect. It probably did irritate those interested in doing an illegal conversion I suppose.

Although I have thoroughly enjoyed the few times I have got to shoot a FA weapon when invited to OR to do so, I never had a desire to own one. I consider FA on ARs of little value other than the fun factor. Other reason I don't have the desire for one is although I make a fairly good living, it would have to be more than I'm making now to keep one of those properly fed. Unique, bad and confusing time in US firearm history which I truly hope we never revisit.
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