AR Sponsor
Posted: 11/7/2012 9:42:45 AM EDT
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Good afternoon- first time poster here.
I'd like to purchase my first AR-15 but I'm a total newbie. There are many things regarding the AR platform that still reflect my ignorance. Anyway, I'm leaning towards buying a complete rifle from a reputable manufacturer since this will be my first AR. From my brief study of the subject, I believe I want a 16 inch barrel with a 1:7 twist chambered for .556. I'd like the ability to place a scope on it so I don't know if I want one preconfigured with the fixed front (triangle) sight. My budget is $1600 or so. Based on some cursory web/forum surfing and a few sportings shows that I watch on TV, it seems that Daniel Defense has a good reputation. For my price range is this the way to go or am I better served by looking at an offering from S&W, Ruger, etc.? Thanks for your time! Bob |
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PSA 16" PA-15CR MOE Carbine
This rifle is the best deal on the market right now IMO. It has all the specs as a Daniel Defense (with the exception that the barrel is not hammer forged––not a big deal at all, it is still one of the highest quality barrels available) and is 900$. I also love that rail system. I would buy it soon... |
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Sounds like you're looking for this:
http://www.impactguns.com/bushmaster-orc-m4-optics-ready-carbine-16in-bcwvmf-16m4orc-604206086693.aspx No rail on the gas block though, so if you ever wanted to mount a standard front sight you'd have to replace it. However if you're looking to mount an optic, there'd be no co-witnessing problems, and you save about $700 to put toward a nice optic and some ammo. |
| Lmt mrp. You could get it done for 1700-1800. I bought the mrp upper and paired it with a spikes lower. Great rifle. 1:7 twist, 16 in barrel without sight post. Plently of rail space on the rifle length. The monolitic rail (rail is attached to reciever, not separate) allows for ideal conditon to mount optics with 0 possible wobble. Well, all of this and it looks awesome. |
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PSA 16" PA-15CR MOE Carbine This rifle is the best deal on the market right now IMO. It has all the specs as a Daniel Defense (with the exception that the barrel is not hammer forged––not a big deal at all, it is still one of the highest quality barrels available) and is 900$. I also love that rail system. I would buy it soon... This. Emphasis on soon. Spend the leftover on a quality optic and light and the rest on ammo. |
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Sounds like you're looking for this: http://www.impactguns.com/bushmaster-orc-m4-optics-ready-carbine-16in-bcwvmf-16m4orc-604206086693.aspx No rail on the gas block though, so if you ever wanted to mount a standard front sight you'd have to replace it. However if you're looking to mount an optic, there'd be no co-witnessing problems, and you save about $700 to put toward a nice optic and some ammo. Guy has a $1600 budget and is looking at DD, some very high quality stuff, and you suggest a bushmaster? 
OP, DD makes some fantastic rifles in your price range. The PSA rifle linked also is a great buy. Another company to check out is Bravo Company but it looks like they have suspended taking in orders for complete rifles right now. As for optics, if you're going to run a red dot then having the a fixed front sight isn't a huge deal. If you're running a scope then it's still not a major deal but in a lower power scope you might have some blur in the bottom of the scope. |
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Sounds like you're looking for this: http://www.impactguns.com/bushmaster-orc-m4-optics-ready-carbine-16in-bcwvmf-16m4orc-604206086693.aspx No rail on the gas block though, so if you ever wanted to mount a standard front sight you'd have to replace it. However if you're looking to mount an optic, there'd be no co-witnessing problems, and you save about $700 to put toward a nice optic and some ammo. This is not ideal at all. Every defensive AR needs a front sight, or a mounting system capable of accommodating one. It also costs the same as the PSA, which has better internals, a top-end rail system, front and rear MBUS sights, and Magpul furniture. |
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Good afternoon- first time poster here. I'd like to purchase my first AR-15 but I'm a total newbie. There are many things regarding the AR platform that still reflect my ignorance. Anyway, I'm leaning towards buying a complete rifle from a reputable manufacturer since this will be my first AR. From my brief study of the subject, I believe I want a 16 inch barrel with a 1:7 twist chambered for .556. I'd like the ability to place a scope on it so I don't know if I want one preconfigured with the fixed front (triangle) sight. My budget is $1600 or so. Based on some cursory web/forum surfing and a few sportings shows that I watch on TV, it seems that Daniel Defense has a good reputation. For my price range is this the way to go or am I better served by looking at an offering from S&W, Ruger, etc.? Thanks for your time! Bob ignore everything posted above. buy the cheapest AR you can find (despite what all of these forum junkies think, almost all rifles are pretty much the same quality) and spend the rest on ammo and training. |
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Thanks guys for all the advice. I started this investigation with little to no knowledge of PSA AR-15's. I've now included them in my review along with the Daniel Defense line.
I know Ruger has a .556 for roughly the same price but I don't know much about their offering. |
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PSA 16" PA-15CR MOE Carbine This rifle is the best deal on the market right now IMO. It has all the specs as a Daniel Defense (with the exception that the barrel is not hammer forged––not a big deal at all, it is still one of the highest quality barrels available) and is 900$. I also love that rail system. I would buy it soon... Come on man.... with a $1600 budget you can do better. If you are planning on buying a few ARs, you can buy a decent rifle from PSA at a good price. If you are looking for a rock solid, base your life on it AR I would go with: LMT, Colt, DD, or BCM in that price range. I personally like 14.5" better than the 16s just because I like them to be as compact as possible and still maintain proper ballistics. I would go with an LMT 14.5". I have owned KAC, DD, PSA, Colt, Noveske, Bushmaster, Olympic Arms, BCM, LWRCi, and LMT and for a DI rifle, I prefer LMT. They are "combat" rifles and despite my interest in other high end ARs, I always fall back on my LMT. LWRCi is an excellent company but a little pricey and their piston system might be a little complicated for a first time AR owner. Good luck!!! |
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You could buy a good rifle for 1k, then add a few add ons, optics, magazines, ammo, sling, light, ect.. Not much fun having a kick ass $1600 rifle, but no ammo, and mags. ^This^ Irons are nice to have, but if this is something you'll be taking to the range to plink with and also have in the closet for home defense, they're probably not necessary. Unless you're worried about someone dropping mortars in your living room at three in the morning. 
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Before you put the cart before the horse why don't you tell us what this rifle will be used for? If you simply say I want a AR, you answers will be all over the place, just look above. Are we looking for 800 yard accuracy, sub MOA, truck rifle, plinker, ground hog killer, etc.................................................................... ????????????????
If you want a solid AR rifle used for plinking and God forbid the zombies attack, I would look at a Colt 6920, VTAC padded sling, ElZetta 1500 light mount with the M60 light, ammo, mags and a carbine class. |
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NCHornet,
That's a good point that I should've addressed in my original post. I'd like to use the AR for fun at the range, varmint hunting, and an occasional deer hunt. Most likely it would be used primarily at the range but I want it to be flexible enough to handle some basic hunting needs. Thanks - Bob |
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So I think I'm getting closer. I saw a Sig 516 Patrol model (piston driven) last night that was $1580. I really liked it - flip-up front/rear sights. I questioned whether it would have a bit more recoil being piston driven but the salesman said he owned one and couldn't tell a discernable difference.
So it's down to a DD, PSA as mentioned above, or the Sig. Any thoughts from the experts? Thanks, Bob |
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I never spent your kinda cash on ONE rifle.
BUT... I would do this with your kind of money. 
1.Upper one- midlength gas system 16" LW barrel 5.56 1 in 9 twist. Flat top upper. Matech rear BUIS. 2, Upper two- 16" 9 m.m. flat top upper ramped bolt. RRA mag block. 3. Lower- decent G.I. trigger like an ALG with rounded hammer, ambi controls and great features like a AGP arms lower. 4. A CMMG .22 converter. 5. Mags for all.5.56 PMags.-.22 Blackdogs- 9 m.m. ASC stainless. It will cost a little more. But you have 3 options for ammo that may be harder to get in the future. 2 of the 3 are as low cost as you will find, and easy to suppress !! |
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Sig makes good ARs, so does Colt, DD, and quite a few others.
Not all are created equal though. Steer clear of; Olympic, Vulcan, Blackthorne, Hesse, and gun show franken rifles. Chrome lined barrels are a really good idea. Sig has a few features I like, such as the QD sling swivels built into the receiver. DD has about everything anyone could want. Colt has a long track record for sturdy weapons. PSA has a good rep here, but I have no dog in that hunt. Before you consider hunting deer with the 5.56mm, check your state gaming laws on minimum cal. and max mag capacity. |
| Can't go wrong with a DD. I have a V5 and love it. It is very lightweight and has the highest quality parts all the way around. Plus in th erare case something goes wron g they have if not the best then very close to the best customer service in the business. It comes with a DD rail already installed (DDs rails are top notch are currentyl beign used by Special Forces). It is rock solid and is free floated which helps accuracy and creates a steadier platform. It also comes with a Magpul MOE stock and DD vertical foregrip. I have added a Streamlight TLR1s, Aimpoint PRO, Magpul MBUS flip up sights and a Vickers VCAS sling. Equipped like it is I have right at $1,700 in it but you can skip the optic for awhile and get used to iron sights(I would recommend this to see what you want) You can use that extra $400 or so and buy a 1,000 rds of ammo. My rifle has ate everything from cheapo Tula and Wolf all the way to TAP rounds and Black Hills. I pack it everyday while on duty(I work as deputy sheriff) If you have the funds you can not go wrong with a DD. I have a Colt 6920, a Stag Model 1 and a LMT 10.5" SBR and I much prefer the DD over any of them. If you look around you should be able to find one for $1300. |
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ignore everything posted above. buy the cheapest AR you can find (despite what all of these forum junkies think, almost all rifles are pretty much the same quality) and spend the rest on ammo and training. [/quote] Please ignore this guy's advice about your next AR purchase. Use what the Pro's, military and cops use. I will give you a clue. It ain't Olympic, Model 1 sales, Bushmaster. Buy a top quality AR. Colt, LMT, Noveske, BCM, Daniel Defense, LaRue. PSA if you are on a budget. Don't buy the cheapest one out there. |
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Good afternoon- first time poster here. I'd like to purchase my first AR-15 but I'm a total newbie. There are many things regarding the AR platform that still reflect my ignorance. Anyway, I'm leaning towards buying a complete rifle from a reputable manufacturer since this will be my first AR. From my brief study of the subject, I believe I want a 16 inch barrel with a 1:7 twist chambered for .556. I'd like the ability to place a scope on it so I don't know if I want one preconfigured with the fixed front (triangle) sight. My budget is $1600 or so. Based on some cursory web/forum surfing and a few sportings shows that I watch on TV, it seems that Daniel Defense has a good reputation. For my price range is this the way to go or am I better served by looking at an offering from S&W, Ruger, etc.? Thanks for your time! Bob ignore everything posted above. buy the cheapest AR you can find (despite what all of these forum junkies think, almost all rifles are pretty much the same quality) and spend the rest on ammo and training. Ignore this guy he's an idiot. Not all ar's are the same. Why don't you build yourself one? You could piece together a badass gun for that |
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ignore everything posted above. buy the cheapest AR you can find (despite what all of these forum junkies think, almost all rifles are pretty much the same quality) and spend the rest on ammo and training. [/quote] Please ignore this guy's advice about your next AR purchase. Use what the Pro's, military and cops use. I will give you a clue. It ain't Olympic, Model 1 sales, Bushmaster. Buy a top quality AR. Colt, LMT, Noveske, BCM, Daniel Defense, LaRue. PSA if you are on a budget. Don't buy the cheapest one out there. [/quote] Ive seen lots of leo`s with bushmaster carbines. |
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ignore everything posted above. buy the cheapest AR you can find (despite what all of these forum junkies think, almost all rifles are pretty much the same quality) and spend the rest on ammo and training. Please ignore this guy's advice about your next AR purchase. Use what the Pro's, military and cops use. I will give you a clue. It ain't Olympic, Model 1 sales, Bushmaster. Buy a top quality AR. Colt, LMT, Noveske, BCM, Daniel Defense, LaRue. PSA if you are on a budget. Don't buy the cheapest one out there. Ive seen lots of leo`s with bushmaster carbines. I know a lot of LEO's that don't have any idea how to use their carbine (many who do but many who don't). I think it is more important to note that Blackwater used Bushmasters in Iraq... much more unforgiving environment than the back of a squad car IMO. I would go with the LMT MRP. The whole "buy the cheapest AR you can find" is TERRIBLE advice. A higher price does not necessarily mean better quality, but reputation does say a lot about a company. Noveske, LMT, Colt, DD, BCM, KAC, LaRue, LWRC, ect ect.... there are a lot of options out there from manufacturers that have a solid reputation. With a $1600 budget you can count out Noveske, LaRue, LWRC, and KAC but that's ok because I have owned all of them (other than LaRue) and my MRP is still my go to rifle. The lock-up between the upper and lower is incredible, I like how easy it is to change the barrel (I could go from 5.56 to 6.8 in less than 5min). They are accurate, reliable, and I think they look badass too. An LMT lower will run you between 350-550 depending on which one you get and you can get the upper on here for around 1K. I owned a Bushmaster as one of my first ARs... I put a lot of rounds through it and it worked well. It started giving me some minor issues about 4k rounds deep but was a good rifle nonetheless. That being said, my confidence in my MRP is exponentially greater. |
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I know a lot of LEO's that don't have any idea how to use their carbine (many who do but many who don't). I think it is more important to note that Blackwater used Bushmasters in Iraq... much more unforgiving environment than the back of a squad car IMO. I would go with the LMT MRP. The whole "buy the cheapest AR you can find" is TERRIBLE advice. A higher price does not necessarily mean better quality, but reputation does say a lot about a company. Noveske, LMT, Colt, DD, BCM, KAC, LaRue, LWRC, ect ect.... there are a lot of options out there from manufacturers that have a solid reputation. With a $1600 budget you can count out Noveske, LaRue, LWRC, and KAC but that's ok because I have owned all of them (other than LaRue) and my MRP is still my go to rifle. The lock-up between the upper and lower is incredible, I like how easy it is to change the barrel (I could go from 5.56 to 6.8 in less than 5min). They are accurate, reliable, and I think they look badass too. An LMT lower will run you between 350-550 depending on which one you get and you can get the upper on here for around 1K. I owned a Bushmaster as one of my first ARs... I put a lot of rounds through it and it worked well. It started giving me some minor issues about 4k rounds deep but was a good rifle nonetheless. That being said, my confidence in my MRP is exponentially greater. It takes you 5 min to change to 6.8? I can do it in about 30 seconds on my standard AR. You see, there are these two pins that hold the upper on..... |
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I know a lot of LEO's that don't have any idea how to use their carbine (many who do but many who don't). I think it is more important to note that Blackwater used Bushmasters in Iraq... much more unforgiving environment than the back of a squad car IMO. I would go with the LMT MRP. The whole "buy the cheapest AR you can find" is TERRIBLE advice. A higher price does not necessarily mean better quality, but reputation does say a lot about a company. Noveske, LMT, Colt, DD, BCM, KAC, LaRue, LWRC, ect ect.... there are a lot of options out there from manufacturers that have a solid reputation. With a $1600 budget you can count out Noveske, LaRue, LWRC, and KAC but that's ok because I have owned all of them (other than LaRue) and my MRP is still my go to rifle. The lock-up between the upper and lower is incredible, I like how easy it is to change the barrel (I could go from 5.56 to 6.8 in less than 5min). They are accurate, reliable, and I think they look badass too. An LMT lower will run you between 350-550 depending on which one you get and you can get the upper on here for around 1K. I owned a Bushmaster as one of my first ARs... I put a lot of rounds through it and it worked well. It started giving me some minor issues about 4k rounds deep but was a good rifle nonetheless. That being said, my confidence in my MRP is exponentially greater. It takes you 5 min to change to 6.8? I can do it in about 30 seconds on my standard AR. You see, there are these two pins that hold the upper on..... hah yea yea... i can change calibers in less than 5 sec by picking up a different rifle
I wasn't counting switching out the entire upper / rifle ... |
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I know a lot of LEO's that don't have any idea how to use their carbine (many who do but many who don't). I think it is more important to note that Blackwater used Bushmasters in Iraq... much more unforgiving environment than the back of a squad car IMO. I would go with the LMT MRP. The whole "buy the cheapest AR you can find" is TERRIBLE advice. A higher price does not necessarily mean better quality, but reputation does say a lot about a company. Noveske, LMT, Colt, DD, BCM, KAC, LaRue, LWRC, ect ect.... there are a lot of options out there from manufacturers that have a solid reputation. With a $1600 budget you can count out Noveske, LaRue, LWRC, and KAC but that's ok because I have owned all of them (other than LaRue) and my MRP is still my go to rifle. The lock-up between the upper and lower is incredible, I like how easy it is to change the barrel (I could go from 5.56 to 6.8 in less than 5min). They are accurate, reliable, and I think they look badass too. An LMT lower will run you between 350-550 depending on which one you get and you can get the upper on here for around 1K. I owned a Bushmaster as one of my first ARs... I put a lot of rounds through it and it worked well. It started giving me some minor issues about 4k rounds deep but was a good rifle nonetheless. That being said, my confidence in my MRP is exponentially greater. It takes you 5 min to change to 6.8? I can do it in about 30 seconds on my standard AR. You see, there are these two pins that hold the upper on..... hah yea yea... i can change calibers in less than 5 sec by picking up a different rifle
I wasn't counting switching out the entire upper / rifle ... All kidding aside, how we does it hold zero when switchig barrels? |
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You could buy a good rifle for 1k, then add a few add ons, optics, magazines, ammo, sling, light, ect.. Not much fun having a kick ass $1600 rifle, but no ammo, and mags. ^This^ Irons are nice to have, but if this is something you'll be taking to the range to plink with and also have in the closet for home defense, they're probably not necessary. Unless you're worried about someone dropping mortars in your living room at three in the morning. Agreed |
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Thanks to everyone for the advice and commentary!
I purchased a Daniel Defense M4-V5 last night from Vance in Columbus, OH for $1400. I thought it was a great price compared to what I was seeing online as well as other dealers in the southwest Ohio area. Now, I need to learn general maintenance, take-down, etc. Can you all recommend any books to help speed the learning curve? Thanks again - Bob |
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PSA 16" PA-15CR MOE Carbine This rifle is the best deal on the market right now IMO. It has all the specs as a Daniel Defense (with the exception that the barrel is not hammer forged––not a big deal at all, it is still one of the highest quality barrels available) and is 900$. I also love that rail system. I would buy it soon... Agreed, great set-up. Pick up either an Aimpoint T-1 or PRO, a dozen quality magazines, and ammo. While I prefer the T-1 to the PRO, I own both, the PRO is a much better value and will leave you more money for ammo. Even better, see if you can find a used Comp M2 on the EE. I've bought several with mounts for $250. |
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Thanks to everyone for the advice and commentary! I purchased a Daniel Defense M4-V5 last night from Vance in Columbus, OH for $1400. I thought it was a great price compared to what I was seeing online as well as other dealers in the southwest Ohio area. Now, I need to learn general maintenance, take-down, etc. Can you all recommend any books to help speed the learning curve? Thanks again - Bob Check out the Cleaning & Maintainance Forum. It will give you more than enough info. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Glad you got your first AR. WalMart is selling the Colt 6920 for a grand, hard rifle to beat at that price.
Don't get all crazy on the infinite amount of tacticool mall ninja crap. As I said before get a good light and mount and a good sling and sign up for a carbine class. It won't take you long to realize what you really need on your rifle and what you don't. Nobody knows your needs but you. There is a reason why newbies give in to all the cool accessories only to resort back to a KISS carbine once they know and understand the rifle and how to properly use it. YMMV? |
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Glad you got your first AR. WalMart is selling the Colt 6920 for a grand, hard rifle to beat at that price. Don't get all crazy on the infinite amount of tacticool mall ninja crap. As I said before get a good light and mount and a good sling and sign up for a carbine class. It won't take you long to realize what you really need on your rifle and what you don't. Nobody knows your needs but you. There is a reason why newbies give in to all the cool accessories only to resort back to a KISS carbine once they know and understand the rifle and how to properly use it. YMMV? Some things are gimmicky, others are must haves in my opinion. You have to have a pistol grip. I think the A2 sucks. I was a Hogue fan, but now I swear by Magpul MIAD. I like being able to fit it o my hand, and the grip core which stores a spare bolt and firing pin are must haves. I have models with and without the enhanced trigger guard, but that is another must have whether integrated into the grip or a stand alone. The BCM Gunfighter charging handle is another must have. Rock solid, with extra real estate to manipulate under stress. Stock is a personal choice. I think the M4 stock is crap. I have a CTR on one carbine, but the others have M93 stocks. The M93 is heavy, but it gives a ton of adjustment in length, locks up solid, and is beefy enough that I'd feel comfortable using it for a good butt stroke. Rails? Personal thing. Some people don't like em, some swear by them. I've owned KAC, UTG (on a .22 upper), DD, LaRue, Troy, and some with standard M4 hand guards. If you're not going to mount a VFG, and have an A2 FSB, you probably don't need a rail. They make some nice light mounts for the A2 FSB. I for one hate a fixed front sight, I don't like anything obscuring my red dot - I just want to see my FOV and the dot. Again personal thing. VFG? I'm a believer, either an AFG or LaRue FUG. Necessary? No, not at all, but I am used to them now and hate not having one. Back up sights? If you don't have fixed sights, you can't skimp on these. With a good optic you'll likely never need them, but you should have them and know how to shoot them. I think a set of polymer sights are fine, no need to spend $200 on a set of Troy or GG&G. I buy used Arms 40s on the EE for $60 or so. I can't stress enough, shop the EE for accessories. A lot of folks buy the latest and greatest and find they don't like them. Deals can be had if you look. Things like the Magpul BAD? I like them personally, but not a must have. Magnifiers for red dots? I have a flip to side with a Hensoldt that I picked up used to test. Honestly, if you want magnification in the 3X range, but a 1-4 with an illuminated reticle. Just my opinion, but it seems to remove the need for multiple components with multiple mounts hanging on the same rifle. Light, must have. You don't need to go crazy. A Surefire G2 with a drop in LED lamp is pretty cheap. Don't need a fancy mount if you have a rail, you can get by with a cheap scope ring until you can afford better. Surefire 950 light with pressure switches and mounts are frequently on the EE for $100ish. Sling... A good sling is worth dropping a few bucks on. I used o swear by single point slings, then I got into two point slings. Now I like the MS3 for the ease of transitioning between the two styles. If you are made of money... I'm not... Night vision, thermal, IR lasers are all nice. I'd love good night vision, and may save up for it, but I'd focus on the basics like NCHornet said. For me, the add ons would be in this order to a stock rifle. Quality red dot Back up sights if not standard with the rifles Light Sling Upgraded charging handle Upgraded grip with trigger guard Upgraded stock if you don't like the M4 or A2 Rail Just my two cents which becomes worth less with each Quantitative Easing. 
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[/quote] ignore everything posted above. buy the cheapest AR you can find (despite what all of these forum junkies think, almost all rifles are pretty much the same quality) and spend the rest on ammo and training. [/quote] Ignore this person! Forum junkies usually have a lot of experience to back up what they are saying. If you are going to buy the cheapest you can find and buy a lot of ammo and training then you might want to learn how to throw that ammo by hand and the training should be using a knife. Buy a quality AR first. Not the most expensive means the best either. Many quality ARs will come in around 1K. Then outfit it with some really good optics because you want to hunt with it. A sling will be very useful as it will get heavy carrying it to and from a stand. Most importantly you need to be happy with which one your purchase. My questions to narrow it down would be.....What ammo do I plan to shoot? If its going to be constantly shooting something above 70gr. then you may want to look at ones that are a1:7 or a 1:8 twist. What is the dependability of the rifle? What is the companies Customer Service like? No gun is a One Size Fits All so find the one that works best for you and your needs. I personally use them for the same reason you do but I still went with the one that met my criteria. Before I purchased I did what I had to to put my hands on them and see which one I liked best. 
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Just received my Rainier Arms RUC and am very pleased with it. They are easy to do business with. Yes, I would buy from them again , in a heartbeat. Good luck with your decision.
Well, for $1500, I think I'm going to settle on the Daniel Defense M4-V5 and add a red-dot sight and 2 pt sling. Now, I need to find a place that has them in stock. Has anyone purchased a rifle from Rainier Arms or Rifle Gear? Thanks - Bob |
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