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Posted: 3/25/2012 4:51:04 PM EDT
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Hey everyone, just wanted to say I learned a lot from this forum and want to thank everyone for taking the time to read this. Ok now, onto the good stuff. I know thus question has been asked a million times on here and I read as many threads as I can find... But I am still unable to make up my mind in what to do. Either build vs complete. I rather just buy one ready to roll. Next I read everyone saying the same responses the m&p15, stag, spikes, bravo co., and of course colt. I started with wanting the mp15 because of the price, then saw my buddy's stag(but more in price ). The more I read the more I learn that I shouldnt be cheap if I want a quality gun that will never let me down. From what I read, am i right to think that spikes st 15 midlength m4 is the way to go for the price of $850? This will get me a gun that is milspec and a lifetime warranty whereas if I built one I get no warranty and wouldnt be able to get milspecs for cheaper than 1000.
I also heard usautoweapons.com sells lowers that are mil spec starting ar $300. However I haven't found any threads mentioning that company. Anyone know about them? Basically I want a gun that is more than just a range gun with milspecs for under a 1000. Any suggestions ? Seems like bravo, Daniel defense , and colt are up there in price whereas spike is lower in price and basically just as good as the big names. Someone correct me and point in the right direction. I'm new here and this is my first AR purchase. I'm On the waiting list for an MP15 at my local gun shop. So as im waiting I'm trying to find bigger, badder and better for under 1000. Why a 1000? Because I can't afford it. I would love to be able to bc I saw somewhere colts 6920 going for $950. So $850 Is my price cap. Sorry for the typos. I Typing from the iPhone. Anyone care to share? |
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$330 is steep for a complete standard lower compared to a PSA compete standard for $239.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/lower-parts/lower-receivers/complete-psa-ar-15-lower-classic-edition.html |
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Classic Arms has PSA
scroll down a bit on that page. if you do order from them, make sure you CALL to confirm the item is in stock. |
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The PSA deals are good, but they aren't running $50 stripped lowers right now, so if you want a complete lower, check this out.
DSA Complete Lower - $200 OR, you can build your own with a DSA stripped lower - $75 and a PSA MOE lower build kit - $139.99 if the MOE furniture interests you. ~$25 extra gets you ~$80 worth of furniture. OR, if the MOE doesn't interest you and you still want to build it, get the DSA stripped lower and a PSA Classic lower build kit - $99.99 to build yourself a mil-spec complete lower for under $200. Either way, this leaves you with around $800 to build/buy your upper and the stuff to go with it. $800 is plenty to get yourself a very nice upper that can be built to the exact specifications that you desire and for the specific role that you want it to fill. Hope it helps. |
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The PSA deals are good, but they aren't running $50 stripped lowers right now, so if you want a complete lower, check this out. DSA Complete Lower - $200 OR, you can build your own with a DSA stripped lower - $75 and a PSA MOE lower build kit - $139.99 if the MOE furniture interests you. ~$25 extra gets you ~$80 worth of furniture. OR, if the MOE doesn't interest you and you still want to build it, get the DSA stripped lower and a PSA Classic lower build kit - $99.99 to build yourself a mil-spec complete lower for under $200. Either way, this leaves you with around $800 to build/buy your upper and the stuff to go with it. $800 is plenty to get yourself a very nice upper that can be built to the exact specifications that you desire and for the specific role that you want it to fill. Hope it helps. Problem with DSA is that they unable to deliver anything in under a few months right now. Why not just buy the PSA lower for $80 and then buy the MOE lower build kit for $140 and be about the same money and have a lower in a couple weeks versus several months. |
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if you want mil-spec, then dont get a middy. 
a colt 6920 can be had for $1000 and will have the new "M4 Carbine" rollmark *drools* If you must go cheaper, then I'd go Spikes or PSA. Thanks for the response! Why isnt the mid length mil spec? their specs say the mid length's barrel is mil spec and the BCG is a mil spec m16 BCG. I would love to buy the colt but i can barely afford the $860 dollar price tag. From what I read here and a couple other gun forums, owners are amazingly happy with their STs and also read on purchasing the mid length over the Carbine because of smoother gas flow since its longer that the recoil is smoother than the carbines. I also have long arms and would like to get the extra length for a more comfortable grip. Why are the Carbines mil spec whereas mid lengths arent? Just wondering. trying to learn as much as I can about the differences. |
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$330 is steep for a complete standard lower compared to a PSA compete standard for $239. http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/lower-parts/lower-receivers/complete-psa-ar-15-lower-classic-edition.html well the complete standard lower at Spike's is $290 ($275 with the ARFCOM 5% discount at checkout) I've searched and found dealers selling them for around $260, but of course everything Spike's is on backorder everywhere i looked. If its not it's being sold for hundreds over priced. Right now I'm still not sure about building one. I tried pricing the uppers and lowers parts seperately to build them from scratch and it seems it would be more cost effective to buy the complete gun. I had to price in shipping (20 dollars for ground , 170 over night) and transfer fee. (15-50 depending on the what dealer i go to) |
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Why are the Carbines mil spec whereas mid lengths arent? Just wondering. trying to learn as much as I can about the differences. The military does not field a "middy" They do carbine and rifle. On your budget, with what you want, the two best mentions were either Spikes or PSA. The others were either over your budget or lower in quality. |
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if you want mil-spec, then dont get a middy.
a colt 6920 can be had for $1000 and will have the new "M4 Carbine" rollmark *drools* If you must go cheaper, then I'd go Spikes or PSA. A 16" barrel with a carbine gas system is also not "mil-spec".  are 16" barrels in general not mil spec? i thought about the shorter barrels but I figured getting a longer barrel will be better for shooting longer distances with a bettter accuracy. All Spike's says in the specs for the upper is that the BCG , barrel and LPK are mil spec and the barrel is government profile, with the mid length gas system. so are the carbines and mid length by Spike's not truely a mil spec gun?? thanks for your reply too! |
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those specs look exactly the same as the spikes ar-15 for 860.00. EXCEPT the optics and im not sure about the carpenter bolt . i dont know about the spikes barrel being double chromed. just chromed is all i know. SWEET GUN though. wish i could spend that but I got bills! |
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Bought my PSA lower for $49 , MOE build kit$124 Just got my PSA upper. 14.7 M4 bbl, MOE HG, YHM FH, +BCG and CH for $502 shipped So for less than $700 I got a complete rifle with a LIFETIME warranty. YMMV  is PSA all or mostly mil spec? Those prices are def. ideal. I havent read into the PSA ARs yet.. only looked at STAG, BCM, COLT, SPIKES, and S&W. I was going to build one but seems like after i priced all the parts they came out to more than buying the complete gun from the manufacturer. (included shipping and transfer costs.) I tried pricing the upper (being the more expensive component of the two. spike jacked their uppers up to $560 but found dealers selling them for $480) parts separately but not sure if i included too little or too less. I priced the barrel, handguard, flash hider, upper forged m4 flat receiver, gas seat, and a delta ring/barrel nut. Am i missing anything? I'm still wondering if I should build this or just save the hassle and buy it complete. If i build then that means no warranty right? Another thing i forgot to mention is the one dealer does layaway so im just going to make payments for a complete as my pay checks come in.. OR just buy the different parts as the pay checks come in which would be more fun to have them in my possession but then that means paying transfer fees for each part correct? |
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The PSA deals are good, but they aren't running $50 stripped lowers right now, so if you want a complete lower, check this out. DSA Complete Lower - $200 OR, you can build your own with a DSA stripped lower - $75 and a PSA MOE lower build kit - $139.99 if the MOE furniture interests you. ~$25 extra gets you ~$80 worth of furniture. OR, if the MOE doesn't interest you and you still want to build it, get the DSA stripped lower and a PSA Classic lower build kit - $99.99 to build yourself a mil-spec complete lower for under $200. Either way, this leaves you with around $800 to build/buy your upper and the stuff to go with it. $800 is plenty to get yourself a very nice upper that can be built to the exact specifications that you desire and for the specific role that you want it to fill. Hope it helps. Thanks for the suggestions! However i only am saving up 800 and some change. I see if i bought the stripped lower and the moe lower build kit ill spend more than just buying the complete for 200. which would leave me with $600 and some change for an upper. but i have to remember the shipping and transfer costs. Is DSA ARs assemblies Mil Spec as well? |
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is PSA all or mostly mil spec? Those prices are def. ideal. I havent read into the PSA ARs yet.. only looked at STAG, BCM, COLT, SPIKES, and S&W. PSA is unique in that they offer very high quality, tested (milspec) components at prices that almost no other vendor can match. I was going to build one but seems like after i priced all the parts they came out to more than buying the complete gun from the manufacturer. (included shipping and transfer costs.
Plus $150 worth of tools...... Buy the Spikes or PSA already. |
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Why are the Carbines mil spec whereas mid lengths arent? Just wondering. trying to learn as much as I can about the differences. The military does not field a "middy" They do carbine and rifle. On your budget, with what you want, the two best mentions were either Spikes or PSA. The others were either over your budget or lower in quality. hmm. well Spikes classifies their mid length as the ST-15 Mid length LE Carbine, and I guess you can say they classify their Carbine as the ST-15 M4 LE Carbine. So is the mid length an actual Carbine? most of the ones i looked at were 16" barrels as well so the only differences quickly seen were just the hand grips length. or is their M4 the true Carbine? I didnt notice any ARs by Spikes that were just classified as a standard rifle. so whats the big difference between the military's rifle and a mid length? Should i just look into Carbines and not mid lengths then? I read that many owners are loving their mid lengths Spikes over their other ARs they own(ed). |
| One bit of advice I have is that if you're on a budget, factor in costs like shipping, FFL transfer, etc. because you could easily end up paying quite a bit more proportionally to your build. Also look at the costs of anything else you'll end up needing if this is your first AR. I mean things like magazines, ammo, cleaning, case, anything else applicable to your situation. When buying my first AR, I didn't take into account the extras and right now it's sitting in two pieces in the cardboard box Palmetto shipped it in because I didn't factor in the cost of a case. And I can't take it to my range without a case. So my ability to shoot my new AR rests in my inability to properly account for the cost of extras. |
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Another question.. I hope someone knows the answer to.. Would it be quicker for me to order directly from the manufacturer or to have a dealer place the order? I feel like the manufacturers are giving dealers first dibs just to fill the massive orders than to put the seperate single customers with their small orders on top of their lists.
I already looked at PSA too and they're just as backed up as all the Dealers ive looked into. So i guess no matter what i have to wait awhile so im now trying to shorten that long while (up to 3 months wait.. Damn you Doomsday preppers!) |
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hmm. well Spikes classifies their mid length as the ST-15 Mid length LE Carbine, and I guess you can say they classify their Carbine as the ST-15 M4 LE Carbine. So is the mid length an actual Carbine? Be advised that when you see "mid-length" or "carbine" that is a reference to gas system length and not necessarily barrel length. Carbines are usually on 14.5" barrels with pinned flash hiders (to make them legal barrel length) Middys are usually on 16 " barrels Rifles are almost always 20" barrels There are exceptions. most of the ones i looked at were 16" barrels as well so the only differences quickly seen were just the hand grips length. or is their M4 the true Carbine?
Again, check the gas system length...that's the difference. I didnt notice any ARs by Spikes that were just classified as a standard rifle. so whats the big difference between the military's rifle and a mid length?
I answered above, but I'll repeat... Middy, a civilian variant of the AR15 that typically has a 16" barrel, a mid length gas system and a 9" handguard. Rifle can be military or civilian and typically has a 20" barrel, rifle-length gas sytem and 12" handguard. Should i just look into Carbines and not mid lengths then? I read that many owners are loving their mid lengths Spikes over their other ARs they own(ed).
Strictly preference. My order of like is mid, rifle, carbine. |
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hmm. well Spikes classifies their mid length as the ST-15 Mid length LE Carbine, and I guess you can say they classify their Carbine as the ST-15 M4 LE Carbine. So is the mid length an actual Carbine? Be advised that when you see "mid-length" or "carbine" that is a reference to gas system length and not necessarily barrel length. Carbines are usually on 14.5" barrels with pinned flash hiders (to make them legal barrel length) Middys are usually on 16 " barrels Rifles are almost always 20" barrels There are exceptions. most of the ones i looked at were 16" barrels as well so the only differences quickly seen were just the hand grips length. or is their M4 the true Carbine?
Again, check the gas system length...that's the difference. I didnt notice any ARs by Spikes that were just classified as a standard rifle. so whats the big difference between the military's rifle and a mid length?
I answered above, but I'll repeat... Middy, a civilian variant of the AR15 that typically has a 16" barrel, a mid length gas system and a 9" handguard. Rifle can be military or civilian and typically has a 20" barrel, rifle-length gas sytem and 12" handguard. Should i just look into Carbines and not mid lengths then? I read that many owners are loving their mid lengths Spikes over their other ARs they own(ed).
Strictly preference. My order of like is mid, rifle, carbine. Thanks for the information! Good to know. I knew there were different lengths barrels just not aware what each length was for.. only knew the 20 inch barrels had to be for some long ass shots. Now that I think of it... I rather the mid length over the two. Not too short, and not too long.. just perfect. I dont plan on joining a swat team busting down doors and running through tight hallways anytime soon so i dont think ill need a shorter barrel. haha Spikes has their Carbines equipped with 16" barrels so that's why I didnt know about the Carbines typical barrel length. Never thought about the different gas systems. sorry for the questions that i couldve easily googled but if you saw my browser window right now with around 15 web sites opened hunting down the cheapest Spikes and one that is actually in stock... is occuping all my time at the moment. |
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Colt 6921 is about the close to a mil spec M4 Its still semi auto only You can buy close copies of the M4 semi auto LMT 14.5 BCM if its really 14.5 
Noveske N4 14.5 DD 14.5 Stag 14.5 to get a 14.5 you must get a tax stamp or pin weld a FH to make it 16. forgive my NEWB questions, but why does one have to do that to get a 14.5 length? I I read somewhere about someone having to weld a FH but i thought it was only because of their particular state laws. I live in PA which I believe doesnt have any restrictions compared to states close by like MA, NY and NJ. Thank god. Another reason why I'm trying to get this gun ASAP before someone in congress passes a law restricting our toys as well. There's been rumors that PA might be next in the list. I doubt it though because PA is full of gun loving good ol' boys! |
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Colt 6921 is about the close to a mil spec M4 Its still semi auto only You can buy close copies of the M4 semi auto LMT 14.5 BCM if its really 14.5
Noveske N4 14.5 DD 14.5 Stag 14.5 to get a 14.5 you must get a tax stamp or pin weld a FH to make it 16. forgive my NEWB questions, but why does one have to do that to get a 14.5 length? I I read somewhere about someone having to weld a FH but i thought it was only because of their particular state laws. I live in PA which I believe doesnt have any restrictions compared to states close by like MA, NY and NJ. Thank god. Another reason why I'm trying to get this gun ASAP before someone in congress passes a law restricting our toys as well. There's been rumors that PA might be next in the list. I doubt it though because PA is full of gun loving good ol' boys! Because any barrel length less than 16" is considered a short barreled rifle. When you pin/weld a muzzle device of sufficient length, it becomes part of the barrel and is considered in the overall length. |
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