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2/25/2012 5:44:57 PM EDT
I've a dpms sportacle. i know they are not popular so i dont want to hear that please. I have a quick question. My AR has no forward assist or dust cover just fyi. I 've put around 400 rounds through it and lately it seems like almost every other shot when it ejects the spent shell, it does not load another one when the bolt goes back forward. i've tried 3 different mags and they all do it. Every once in a while the bolt will catch and not go all the way forward. Am i not using enough oil or something? i put oil on everything the manual says to. It was cleaned about 2 weeks ago and then i went and shot it again yesterday and the first 20 rounds or so were flawless and then it was doing this again. i dont get it. Any ideas? thanks guys!
2/25/2012 5:59:37 PM EDT
[#1]
What ammo are you using?

Have you tried different ammo?
2/25/2012 5:59:58 PM EDT
[#2]
What ammo are you using?
2/25/2012 6:04:52 PM EDT
[#3]
I have had the same problem a couple of different times.  Make sure that your gas block is tight against your end cap and it tightened down.  Mine was loose allowing gas to escape-not allowing the bolt to be pushed far enough back to strip a round off the mag.
2/25/2012 6:09:11 PM EDT
[#4]
are you cleaning after every shooting?
2/25/2012 6:44:30 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
I have had the same problem a couple of different times.  Make sure that your gas block is tight against your end cap and it tightened down.  Mine was loose allowing gas to escape-not allowing the bolt to be pushed far enough back to strip a round off the mag.


^^^^This.

They are notorious for this.  Aluminum gas block expands more than steel.  When they heat up they let go, and this is a common problem.  Definitely check this.  And if it's not loose take one set-screw out at a time and replace with loc-tite to prevent it from happening.  If it's not happening now, trust me it will.  Ask me how I know.
The other suggestions are very good.  Keep it simple when trying to diagnose.  Ammo, mags, and in your case, gas-block are the first and easiest things to check.

As far as lube suggestions, I have never seen an AR that ran worse when lubed heavily.  They like a lot of oil, especially if it's a newer gun.  
Sounds like a minor problem.  

So, what kind of ammo??
2/25/2012 6:52:59 PM EDT
[#6]
My bet is on ammo...

Start there at least
2/25/2012 7:53:37 PM EDT
[#7]
as far as ammo,  its all been pmc bronze. i know its not the best stuff, but its not steel cased and there should be no reason why my ar wont eat it right? i'll check the gas block when i get off work. how can i tell if its loose? i just read something about using high temp wheel bearing grease on the bolt? i've never used anything but regular gun oil? should i be using grease?
2/25/2012 8:27:14 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
as far as ammo,  its all been pmc bronze. i know its not the best stuff, but its not steel cased and there should be no reason why my ar wont eat it right? i'll check the gas block when i get off work. how can i tell if its loose? i just read something about using high temp wheel bearing grease on the bolt? i've never used anything but regular gun oil? should i be using grease?


PMC Bronze is decent ammo.  I have run and do run it fairly regularly.  A couple of things to remember about it though....

1.  The PMC is known for being very underpowered.
2.  Any underpowered ammo will cause the exact problems you describe especially is the gun is tight (fairly new) or a little dry.
3.  You could very well have gotten a bad batch of PMC as well.
4.  Try something like some full power 5.56rds to eliminate this as a variable, especially if the gun doesn't have many rds on it yet.

Ok, now we got my opinion on that out of the way.

Stay away from grease on the bolt.  In my humble opinion a quality gun oil, or even motor oil will be much, much, better....and a helluva lot less messy and easier to clean.
Grease does well on triggers.  Other than that I would recommend staying away from it.

As far as your gas block, you can reach up there and basically just give it a good twist.  Keep in mind yours may be expanding and causing the problem after it heats up.  This is common.  Although once they do loosen they generally loosen enough to stay loose so that twist check is a good starting point.  Make sure it's perfectly aligned straight down the barrel as well.

It should have two set screws.  Make sure they are snug so the gas block won't move when you do what's coming next.  
If you have made sure they are snug and the block is aligned remove one of the set screws with an allen wrench.  Now put a drop or two of loctite on it and replace.  I normally wouldn't suggest red loctite on any gun part, but in this case it will work best due to the heat.  Now reinsert and snug.  Do the same procedure to the other screw.

Now you have said what your running, my best guess is an ammo/lube issue.  Soak the bolt and carrier with a quality lube and wipe off any excess.  Leave it wet.  Get some known full-power rounds and tell us what you find out.  I hope this helps.  
2/25/2012 10:38:56 PM EDT
[#9]
@foursixty      Great info and i really appreciate you talking english about it lol I will check the gas block when i get home from work. as far as the 5.56 ammo - my rifle does say .223/5.56 so the hot stuff should be g2g right? and one more thing - when you said "soak" the bolt carrier in lube do you literally mean let it soak in it? sorry i'm way new to the AR world. I do clean it after every time i shoot, but i would definately not say that i over lube this thing. apparently i should be.
2/25/2012 10:45:23 PM EDT
[#10]
never over lube you gun just a waste of gun oil use it on the sleds that touch the buffer tube/ upper reciever on the bcg, check that gas block, and buy some quality ammo like remington fmj 55gr or try federal XM193f 55gr.
2/25/2012 10:46:35 PM EDT
[#11]
i bought the pmc bronze for the price to be honest. anything better for close to the same price?
2/25/2012 10:48:52 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
@foursixty      Great info and i really appreciate you talking english about it lol I will check the gas block when i get home from work. as far as the 5.56 ammo - my rifle does say .223/5.56 so the hot stuff should be g2g right? and one more thing - when you said "soak" the bolt carrier in lube do you literally mean let it soak in it? sorry i'm way new to the AR world. I do clean it after every time i shoot, but i would definately not say that i over lube this thing. apparently i should be.


Your quite welcome.  It makes me feel good to help a fellow enthusiast.  I am one of those people that doesn't know everything,––far from it, but I will be straight up with you and tell you what I know.

As far as using 5.56 you should be good to go.  Very few of the DPMS models are .223 only anymore.  And the majority of the ones that are .223 only are the hunting/varmint oriented rifles.  If you look at the underside of the barrel it should say something like " DPMS 1-9 5.56".  As long as it says 5.56 on the barrel you are good.

And the "soak" was just my lamens attempt to get you to understand wet.  I know that sounds dumb but if your using a spray lube just hose that thing down.  I mean dripping wet bolt and carrier.  Then just wipe off the excess gently and that's what I consider "wet".  Everybody has their own methods, and this is probably "too" much.  But in my experience there is no such thing as too much.  AR's love the oil.  I think you said you had 400rds or so down the pipe??  After you get some more it should smooth up and cycle even easier/better.  Keep in mind the only method I can give you is my method, and that by no means is the only method.  It's just what has worked well for me.  

You will not hurt it using too much lube.  If anything you might get a spray in the face when it cycles or slick hands.  My guns are wet enough after I clean them that oil seeps out of the safety selector, trigger pins, and upper and lower joint.  Don't hurt a thing.  Just wipe it down.

ETA:  Also, as far as ammunition goes:
I have had real good luck with the AR Amercian Eagle both in 5.56 and .223 and the Federal bulk packs.  You can find these at Walmart if your local wally world sells ammo.  They will usually be the same price or even cheaper than the PMC.  And the American Eagle and Federal Bulk packs are pretty much the same bullet.  I can tell absolutely no difference.  These aren't precision perfect MOA capable rounds, but in my experience they have proven reliable, affordable, and consistent performers.
2/25/2012 10:57:27 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
never over lube you gun just a waste of gun oil use it on the sleds that touch the buffer tube/ upper reciever on the bcg, check that gas block, and buy some quality ammo like remington fmj 55gr or try federal XM193f 55gr.


Although admittedly there are hundreds if not thousands of ways to lube a gun, pretty much any "authority" (if you believe in that type of thing) will tell you they recommend and run theirs "wet".  Just saying.

The thread below contains a lot of opinions.  Some I consider much more valuable than others.  Oiling/lubing is covered extensively....
here...

Also Mr. Roger's very informative article here:  

Keep it running..
2/25/2012 11:55:22 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
@foursixty      Great info and i really appreciate you talking english about it lol I will check the gas block when i get home from work. as far as the 5.56 ammo - my rifle does say .223/5.56 so the hot stuff should be g2g right? and one more thing - when you said "soak" the bolt carrier in lube do you literally mean let it soak in it? sorry i'm way new to the AR world. I do clean it after every time i shoot, but i would definately not say that i over lube this thing. apparently i should be.


Your quite welcome.  It makes me feel good to help a fellow enthusiast.  I am one of those people that doesn't know everything,––far from it, but I will be straight up with you and tell you what I know.

As far as using 5.56 you should be good to go.  Very few of the DPMS models are .223 only anymore.  And the majority of the ones that are .223 only are the hunting/varmint oriented rifles.  If you look at the underside of the barrel it should say something like " DPMS 1-9 5.56".  As long as it says 5.56 on the barrel you are good.

And the "soak" was just my lamens attempt to get you to understand wet.  I know that sounds dumb but if your using a spray lube just hose that thing down.  I mean dripping wet bolt and carrier.  Then just wipe off the excess gently and that's what I consider "wet".  Everybody has their own methods, and this is probably "too" much.  But in my experience there is no such thing as too much.  AR's love the oil.  I think you said you had 400rds or so down the pipe??  After you get some more it should smooth up and cycle even easier/better.  Keep in mind the only method I can give you is my method, and that by no means is the only method.  It's just what has worked well for me.  

You will not hurt it using too much lube.  If anything you might get a spray in the face when it cycles or slick hands.  My guns are wet enough after I clean them that oil seeps out of the safety selector, trigger pins, and upper and lower joint.  Don't hurt a thing.  Just wipe it down.

ETA:  Also, as far as ammunition goes:
I have had real good luck with the AR Amercian Eagle both in 5.56 and .223 and the Federal bulk packs.  You can find these at Walmart if your local wally world sells ammo.  They will usually be the same price or even cheaper than the PMC.  And the American Eagle and Federal Bulk packs are pretty much the same bullet.  I can tell absolutely no difference.  These aren't precision perfect MOA capable rounds, but in my experience they have proven reliable, affordable, and consistent performers.


Will definately break her down and try all this. does the federal and american eagle .223 stuff run hotter than the pmc bronze?

2/26/2012 12:12:07 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
@foursixty      Great info and i really appreciate you talking english about it lol I will check the gas block when i get home from work. as far as the 5.56 ammo - my rifle does say .223/5.56 so the hot stuff should be g2g right? and one more thing - when you said "soak" the bolt carrier in lube do you literally mean let it soak in it? sorry i'm way new to the AR world. I do clean it after every time i shoot, but i would definately not say that i over lube this thing. apparently i should be.


Your quite welcome.  It makes me feel good to help a fellow enthusiast.  I am one of those people that doesn't know everything,––far from it, but I will be straight up with you and tell you what I know.

As far as using 5.56 you should be good to go.  Very few of the DPMS models are .223 only anymore.  And the majority of the ones that are .223 only are the hunting/varmint oriented rifles.  If you look at the underside of the barrel it should say something like " DPMS 1-9 5.56".  As long as it says 5.56 on the barrel you are good.

And the "soak" was just my lamens attempt to get you to understand wet.  I know that sounds dumb but if your using a spray lube just hose that thing down.  I mean dripping wet bolt and carrier.  Then just wipe off the excess gently and that's what I consider "wet".  Everybody has their own methods, and this is probably "too" much.  But in my experience there is no such thing as too much.  AR's love the oil.  I think you said you had 400rds or so down the pipe??  After you get some more it should smooth up and cycle even easier/better.  Keep in mind the only method I can give you is my method, and that by no means is the only method.  It's just what has worked well for me.  

You will not hurt it using too much lube.  If anything you might get a spray in the face when it cycles or slick hands.  My guns are wet enough after I clean them that oil seeps out of the safety selector, trigger pins, and upper and lower joint.  Don't hurt a thing.  Just wipe it down.

ETA:  Also, as far as ammunition goes:
I have had real good luck with the AR Amercian Eagle both in 5.56 and .223 and the Federal bulk packs.  You can find these at Walmart if your local wally world sells ammo.  They will usually be the same price or even cheaper than the PMC.  And the American Eagle and Federal Bulk packs are pretty much the same bullet.  I can tell absolutely no difference.  These aren't precision perfect MOA capable rounds, but in my experience they have proven reliable, affordable, and consistent performers.


Will definately break her down and try all this. does the federal and american eagle .223 stuff run hotter than the pmc bronze?



Yes' sir.  While it's definitely not the hottest it should cycle just fine.  You will be able to tell a difference as soon as you pull the trigger.  I have several boxes of the PMC Bronze because it's decent stuff for the money and shoots very smoothly in my gun.....i.e.––shoots very softly because it's noticeably weaker.

I actually had to drop my front sight post further than I expected to get my zero back with the PMC vs. American Eagle.
American Eagle is definitely not the best in the world.  But it shoots very consistently out of my gun, is always in stock at my Wal-Mart, and is $5.97 a box at said Wal-Mart.
It is made by Federal.  I like Federal quite a bit.  They sell a 100rd Federal bulk pack right beside the American Eagle for $39.95.  As far as I can tell it's the same exact round.  I cannot tell a difference.
So you can buy 5 boxes = 100rds for roughly 30 bucks.  Save $10 over the bulk pack for the same bullet.  It's a win-win for me.

If you can't get it at Wal-Mart there are various other retailers, especially online, that sell them at a comparable price.  Although, if I was going to have to order some anyway, I would just order the 5.56
I buy cheap Rem-Oil at Wal-Mart too.  It's definitely not the best, but I buy it because it works for range sessions and is right beside the bullets.  One-stop shop.  Convenience is all.
Mobil 1 synthetic in a light weight works extremely well on AR's.  And it won't take nearly as much of it because it's thicker, and will stay on there longer.  So there's another option.

If you haven't shot any full-power 5.56 loads yet, you will be quite surprised.  They have quite a bit more "punch".  Usually people like to use them breaking in or troubleshooting a gun because they have enough punch to reliably cycle the action while the gun is still tight.  

I have never had any trouble with the others I have mentioned earlier though.  I can run the PMC bronze too.  But keep in mind I have about 2500rds on my odometer so my gun is probably a bit looser than yours, and I still say you could have got some from a bad batch as well.  The PMC's are weak regardless though.

2/26/2012 12:37:27 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
never over lube you gun just a waste of gun oil use it on the sleds that touch the buffer tube/ upper reciever on the bcg, check that gas block, and buy some quality ammo like remington fmj 55gr or try federal XM193f 55gr.


Trying to pinpoint little areas to apply lube will end in your gun not being properly oiled.

Oil isn't that expensive.

I have fixed a lot of other peoples' firearms at the range/matches/quals by adding copious amounts of lube. They usually tell me that they did the exact lubing procedure that was in the manual or that their Drill Sgt told them to do - that's all a load of crap. These, and most guns, like to run wet.
2/26/2012 3:53:07 AM EDT
[#17]
I've always had good luck with PMC...no misfires, FTF or FTE.

Yes, it's not M855...but for the money it's GTG.
2/26/2012 4:11:42 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
i bought the pmc bronze for the price to be honest. anything better for close to the same price?

Look for "5.56 NATO". The NATO specs run hotter than .223 SAAMI.

Here are a few places to start:
Gun-Deals.com
AmmoEngine.com
GunBroker.com
2/26/2012 4:21:36 AM EDT
[#19]
might check your Key maybe its loose
2/26/2012 4:37:12 AM EDT
[#20]
i'm assuming this means the gas key? and thats on top of the BCG right?
2/26/2012 6:24:24 PM EDT
[#21]
well i checked the gas block and key and they both seem tight. and also it says dpms 5.56 1 9 on the barrell so the hot stuff should be g2g right?
2/26/2012 6:33:24 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
never over lube you gun just a waste of gun oil use it on the sleds that touch the buffer tube/ upper reciever on the bcg, check that gas block, and buy some quality ammo like remington fmj 55gr or try federal XM193f 55gr.


Trying to pinpoint little areas to apply lube will end in your gun not being properly oiled.

Oil isn't that expensive.

I have fixed a lot of other peoples' firearms at the range/matches/quals by adding copious amounts of lube. They usually tell me that they did the exact lubing procedure that was in the manual or that their Drill Sgt told them to do - that's all a load of crap. These, and most guns, like to run wet.


yea sorry I  run grease on BCG I meant on sleds and I wet the surface of the BCG with gun oil I don't leave excess oilI  just have it wet

2/26/2012 6:57:58 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
well i checked the gas block and key and they both seem tight. and also it says dpms 5.56 1 9 on the barrell so the hot stuff should be g2g right?


Yep.  

Barrel is what you go by every time when in doubt.  

If the block and key seem tight we're doing good.  Means we're eliminating variables.  
I would try to lube it heavier and try a different ammo.  Although the PMC works great in lots of guns you may have gotten a weaker batch then usual.  Like I say, even the PMC I run in mine without problems is noticeably weaker...VERY.

Basically any gun is a simple machine.  Some more complicated than others.  But they are simple machines nonetheless.  Before you look any deeper than necessary, eliminate the ammo as a variable.  Who knows, after you get her running and get a few more rounds through it you may very well be able to come back and burn up that PMC without a problem.  Stuff like this happens.
2/27/2012 5:44:12 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
well i checked the gas block and key and they both seem tight. and also it says dpms 5.56 1 9 on the barrell so the hot stuff should be g2g right?


Yep.  

Barrel is what you go by every time when in doubt.  

If the block and key seem tight we're doing good.  Means we're eliminating variables.  
I would try to lube it heavier and try a different ammo.  Although the PMC works great in lots of guns you may have gotten a weaker batch then usual.  Like I say, even the PMC I run in mine without problems is noticeably weaker...VERY.

Basically any gun is a simple machine.  Some more complicated than others.  But they are simple machines nonetheless.  Before you look any deeper than necessary, eliminate the ammo as a variable.  Who knows, after you get her running and get a few more rounds through it you may very well be able to come back and burn up that PMC without a problem.  Stuff like this happens.


ok well if the weather cooperates i'll go shoot her with some different ammo tommorrow. i broke her all down today before work and oiled everything according to the article you posted. btw i got you email but it wouldnt let my reply to it for some reason. thanks again! i'll post when i find anything out.
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