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Posted: 2/9/2012 4:34:23 AM EDT
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Hi all. I'm in the process of buying parts for my first AR. I've got most of what I want, except for the upper. Still trying to decide what to go with on that. My budget for the upper is $500-600. That needs to include BCG. I'll add a CH if need be, as I want a Gunfighter or similiar. I'm torn between a used BCM with 1000 rounds thru it, or a new Spikes. The Spikes is a little over my $600 max, but it's NIB. I also like DD, but new is definitely out of my price range, and have not seen anything used so far that I like.
Which would you guys buy between the above two? I'm not sure at what round count I'd likely have to start to replace parts and have reliability issues with the BCM. Also, if there are other places/mfgs I need to be looking at, let me know. I've been looking for too long. And with all the other parts sitting here, I'm ready to 'pull the trigger' on an upper. FYI, must be 16" and prefer a low pro gas block so I can install a different length rail if I want to in the future. But I also like the standard A2 front sight, so I'll probably clamp on one of those too and play with the placement to see what it does to accuracy. Would appreciate feedback/pointers. |
| I'm still trying to figure out where PSA falls as far as quality. They are not included in 'the chart'. I know they had issues but seems they have corrected those. Assuming yes, where do they fall in the quality heirarchy? Is a 1000 round count BCM a better choice than a new PSA or Spikes? |
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I am brand new to AR building. So i cant comment, but I did ask my local AR builders and they all agreed PSA made good quality parts these days. The 20" upper i'm getting for around $500 has a double thick chrome lined bore and chamber and hammer forged barrel.
But honestly im a noob so ask around. In my experience of buying various guns over the years, if a sell says he put 1000 rounds through it, he means 3000 rounds. |
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No, don't have one yet, but have been building up my parts getting ready to build. I'm going to start on the LPK and lower tomm. And have most of the other parts I want to add. Emod/MIAD/RediMag/B.A.D./3 sets of rail covers (couldn't decide!)/Noveske and DD sling attachments/Magpul sling/Maglevel PMags with ranger plates/P.A. M4 and magnifer/JP springs/Tango Down VFG and also Magpul AFG. And a few others. I just need the most important part! Probably will get an upgraded BCG too.
I still need a carbine spring, ST-T2 buffer, flip-to-side mount for the magnifier, and a Battlecomp. I think that will do me. Although I do really like those VTAC TRX Extreme slotted rails. Also still need a soft armor vest too. It will be a gun I want to use for the range, maybe a carbine class, and maybe some compitition if I decide to give that a try. Mostly I'm getting it to be one of my SHTF guns. So 1000 round (stated) BCM or new Spikes? Or others to take a hard loook at? |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Anyone else? Used BCM or new Spikes? I don't understand why it has to be used You can get a new BCM for under $600, $561 with BCG, handguards, $14 shipping I think a new BCM hands down. I had one and loved it. I never see or hear about people complaining about BCM, except things are out of stock. There's a group of people that hate Spikes because they jacked their prices up when obama was elected but I don't think I've ever read anything bad about their quality. You'll find as many bad threads about PSA as you will good threads. |
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A new BCM would cost me nearly twice as much as the used one. Not sure I'm supposed to talk dollars here, so mods, delete if necc. But the new BCM doesn't come with BCG or CH. The used one is $475 vs new = $730. Used comes with rail, BCG and CH. New, only the rail is included. Granted, used has a crappy rail, but looks OK. New has a high quality FF rail. A replacement rail would run close to $200, so if you're going to replace the rail, it becomes more questionable. Then it's $630 used vs $730 new. But add in $150 for a good BCG and $50 for the CH (Gunfighter), and you're at $630 used vs $930 new. That's a $300 premium for new.
And I'm not convinced a FF rail is worth it. I'll be the first to admit I don't know the intricacies of rifle accuracy. But it seems putting a lo pro gas block on there and then moving around the FSB on the barrel to see what different barrel harmonics you can get would work just as well as a FF rail. My question is... how dependable will a good quality AR be after 1000 or so rounds through it? Can I expect 4-5000 rounds before I start buying replacement parts? Would you consider it highly reliable if it functions well after a couple hundred rounds by me with no problems? |
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Quoted:
A new BCM would cost me nearly twice as much as the used one. Not sure I'm supposed to talk dollars here, so mods, delete if necc. But the new BCM doesn't come with BCG or CH. The used one is $475 vs new = $730. Used comes with rail, BCG and CH. New, only the rail is included. Granted, used has a crappy rail, but looks OK. New has a high quality FF rail. A replacement rail would run close to $200, so if you're going to replace the rail, it becomes more questionable. Then it's $630 used vs $730 new. But add in $150 for a good BCG and $50 for the CH (Gunfighter), and you're at $630 used vs $930 new. That's a $300 premium for new. And I'm not convinced a FF rail is worth it. I'll be the first to admit I don't know the intricacies of rifle accuracy. But it seems putting a lo pro gas block on there and then moving around the FSB on the barrel to see what different barrel harmonics you can get would work just as well as a FF rail. My question is... how dependable will a good quality AR be after 1000 or so rounds through it? Can I expect 4-5000 rounds before I start buying replacement parts? Would you consider it highly reliable if it functions well after a couple hundred rounds by me with no problems? Ok. Here goes - First drop all of that barrel harmonics business. You would literally have to be a machine, and have EVERY SINGLE other factor in accuracy crossed out in order to get into the realm that barrel harmonics starts coming into play. To top that off there is like... i think only one company out there that is putting out a TRUE free float design that completely free floats the barrel.. (Larue) Free floating in the real world is just a way for you to put pressure on your handguard (i.e. bipod/sling/barricade/whatever) and not have your barrel being deflected by the force. Even then you need to really be putting on the pressure and be a really good shooter to actually see a difference. Do you need to shoot dimes at 200 yards from a bipod? Or do you need to shoot a dollar bill? Every set up has its strengths and weaknesses and you need to be realistic in what actually you yourself are capable of doing, what you want it to do, and what you need it to do. Moving your FSB from point a to point b is only going to change the sight radius... and if you want to see a benefit from that you need to put it as far out as possible... longer sight radius means less errors in sighting which equals more accuracy. Its like people comparing a snubby revolver with a big long target revolver... the accuracy inherent is not because of the long barrel it is because of the longer sight radius which leads to less user error. You can buy a Spikes/BCM/PSA/LMT/Colt/Noveske/Bushmaster/DPMS/whatever with 10,000 rounds down it and not have to worry about parts failing except possibly some springs that wear over time and maybe a spare bolt for around another 10k rounds when yours breaks. Even if the barrel isn't chrome lined I doubt you would be able to see a significant accuracy drop off for another 10k rounds. You are not going to see a FUNCTIONAL difference in 99% of the brands out there when comparing similar models. The chart is not a ranking system. It is a chart which compares M4 clones to the actual M4 rifle used by the military. It lists the differences compared to the real "M4". It does not rank which things are "better" than others, it does not show real world differences, it does not do anything other than give new users like yourself a confused perspective on things. Milspec is not the best, it is "just good enough" for the military needs and budget restraints. You are not held back by the "milspec" so why let yourself be? Consider it will cost you around half the price of a nice car in order to burn out completely a barrel, a barrel which itself costs a fraction of that, and in order to actually see your barrels true accuracy potential to begin with you will have to be using the most expensive ammo on the market. Trust me, you are making these choices too hard. Buy whatever parts you like, but don't agonize over two things which are functionally equal. You will be well served with any upper sold from any sponsor on this site. |
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I'm going to say BCM hands down. 1,000 rounds is nothing for that upper. My first upper is a BCM and it runs perfectly!
There are several articles about how reliable BCM's are, and almost everyone I've seen that runs a carbine course uses a BCM. Carbine courses push you're rifle to the test with how reliable is and there's a reason why most choose have a BCM. |
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I also am thinking about a Spikes middy. But I want to look for some other used good deals here on ar15.com before I pull the trigger.
Fellas ...... I know that this is such a NOOB question but where the hell can I find the AR (used) classified section on this forum ? Thanks in advance. |
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Quoted: A new BCM would cost me nearly twice as much as the used one. Not sure I'm supposed to talk dollars here, so mods, delete if necc. But the new BCM doesn't come with BCG or CH. The used one is $475 vs new = $730. Used comes with rail, BCG and CH. New, only the rail is included. Granted, used has a crappy rail, but looks OK. New has a high quality FF rail. A replacement rail would run close to $200, so if you're going to replace the rail, it becomes more questionable. Then it's $630 used vs $730 new. But add in $150 for a good BCG and $50 for the CH (Gunfighter), and you're at $630 used vs $930 new. That's a $300 premium for new. And I'm not convinced a FF rail is worth it. I'll be the first to admit I don't know the intricacies of rifle accuracy. But it seems putting a lo pro gas block on there and then moving around the FSB on the barrel to see what different barrel harmonics you can get would work just as well as a FF rail. My question is... how dependable will a good quality AR be after 1000 or so rounds through it? Can I expect 4-5000 rounds before I start buying replacement parts? Would you consider it highly reliable if it functions well after a couple hundred rounds by me with no problems? I still don't understand, you're willing to get a spike's without a rail on it...but you won't get a new BCM without a rail you'd rather have a used one with a, by your admission, crappy rail |
| If you're just looking for a carbine gas system check out marksarmory.com they have 1 spikes carbine left in stock. They usually have middy's too, but they're sold out now. |
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No carbine gas system. It must be a middie.
I said the rail was a crappy one on the used gun. But then I did some research on rails. Now I'm of the opinion that free float rails are more of a marketing tool than anything. I think that was part of what Durabo was trying to point out (correct me if I'm wrong here Durabo). Yes, if you're into precision long range shooting, it MAY be a good idea. But for a tactical short-to-medium range weapon, it's not needed. From what I read, playing around with other things that affect barrel harmonics will make just as much difference. But as noted, that's not something you need to worry too much about for this type of weapon. Bottom line, that non-free float rail I thought was 'crappy' probably will do just fine after all. And after all the consternation and debate, I ended up going with a used 16" DD with a Midwest Industries rail (free float!!). I liked DD to begin with. And finally found a decent deal on a very lightly used one. |
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