AR Sponsor
AFSOC Para Rescue/PJ Unit LVL Purchase carbine discussion thread (Page 12 of 13)
|
Originally Posted By ek_cruiser_316:
No military background here and very intrigued that PJs would be using NCStar shit. What exactly denotes these are real deal PJs? In no way am I saying they aren't just how can one know 100%? Originally Posted By ek_cruiser_316:
Originally Posted By JJREA:
Originally Posted By sdrake100:
Originally Posted By methical20:
There are some new AFSOC photos that show a NC Star MLOK extended FSP hand guard being used along with some BCM furniture (stock, pistol grip). Does anyone have experience with the NC Star rail? It doesn't look very robust, and I'd be shocked if it could hold a zero with a laser if it was pushed up against a barricade. I'd like to learn more if anyone has experience with it. Pics? http://i.imgur.com/SBVOwhx.jpg No military background here and very intrigued that PJs would be using NCStar shit. What exactly denotes these are real deal PJs? In no way am I saying they aren't just how can one know 100%? I was involved in part of the work to transition PJ training from 19th Air Force to 2nd Air Force, so I had "a little experience" with PJs overall. Those guys sure look legit to me. What I don't understand is why they have a white truck with a DOT # that crosses to Enterprise rental in Birmingham, Alabama... NcStar has a CAGE Code (6PES7), which means they're "in the system," so I think these parts would be relatively simple to get through standard supply channels. Also, in many cases Air Force units don't get much leeway in how far individual Airmen can "customize" their weapons, and PJs are no exception. Those rails are "drop in" units, which means the unit armorer didn't have to change barrel nuts (you'd have to do that with the Geissele rail, but not with a Knights RIS), so they didn't require any special permission, either. If you look carefully, you can see that the guy in the background on the left has the same rail on his rifle. I'm thinking the unit may have had to set up some weapons that they didn't have "better respected" rails for, maybe just to participate in this clearly staged publicity picture. |
"--you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."
Heinlein
NRA Life Member
Glock Certified Armorer
Certified AR15 Armorer
Certified M1911 Armorer
Heinlein
NRA Life Member
Glock Certified Armorer
Certified AR15 Armorer
Certified M1911 Armorer
|
Originally Posted By GHPorter:
I was involved in part of the work to transition PJ training from 19th Air Force to 2nd Air Force, so I had "a little experience" with PJs overall. Those guys sure look legit to me. What I don't understand is why they have a white truck with a DOT # that crosses to Enterprise rental in Birmingham, Alabama... NcStar has a CAGE Code (6PES7), which means they're "in the system," so I think these parts would be relatively simple to get through standard supply channels. Also, in many cases Air Force units don't get much leeway in how far individual Airmen can "customize" their weapons, and PJs are no exception. Those rails are "drop in" units, which means the unit armorer didn't have to change barrel nuts (you'd have to do that with the Geissele rail, but not with a Knights RIS), so they didn't require any special permission, either. If you look carefully, you can see that the guy in the background on the left has the same rail on his rifle. I'm thinking the unit may have had to set up some weapons that they didn't have "better respected" rails for, maybe just to participate in this clearly staged publicity picture. Originally Posted By GHPorter:
Originally Posted By ek_cruiser_316:
Originally Posted By JJREA:
Originally Posted By sdrake100:
Originally Posted By methical20:
There are some new AFSOC photos that show a NC Star MLOK extended FSP hand guard being used along with some BCM furniture (stock, pistol grip). Does anyone have experience with the NC Star rail? It doesn't look very robust, and I'd be shocked if it could hold a zero with a laser if it was pushed up against a barricade. I'd like to learn more if anyone has experience with it. Pics? http://i.imgur.com/SBVOwhx.jpg No military background here and very intrigued that PJs would be using NCStar shit. What exactly denotes these are real deal PJs? In no way am I saying they aren't just how can one know 100%? I was involved in part of the work to transition PJ training from 19th Air Force to 2nd Air Force, so I had "a little experience" with PJs overall. Those guys sure look legit to me. What I don't understand is why they have a white truck with a DOT # that crosses to Enterprise rental in Birmingham, Alabama... NcStar has a CAGE Code (6PES7), which means they're "in the system," so I think these parts would be relatively simple to get through standard supply channels. Also, in many cases Air Force units don't get much leeway in how far individual Airmen can "customize" their weapons, and PJs are no exception. Those rails are "drop in" units, which means the unit armorer didn't have to change barrel nuts (you'd have to do that with the Geissele rail, but not with a Knights RIS), so they didn't require any special permission, either. If you look carefully, you can see that the guy in the background on the left has the same rail on his rifle. I'm thinking the unit may have had to set up some weapons that they didn't have "better respected" rails for, maybe just to participate in this clearly staged publicity picture. I bet that is a rental vehicle because they are away from their home base, training. It's been known it to happen, to use civilian vehicles in training. It even happens in real missions. Again, no need to over think things. |
| Could be a private class. I went to a select fire class back in 2006 in Florence, Alabama and there were a few PJs in it. Had the M4s and M9s locked up in pelican cases on a g ride. They were running M4 with aimpoints gooseneck and rails attached to the hand guards, not even RAS. I remember because one of them was was the size of an ogre and broke the bottom hand guard off during a run. |
|
Originally Posted By GHPorter:
I was involved in part of the work to transition PJ training from 19th Air Force to 2nd Air Force, so I had "a little experience" with PJs overall. Those guys sure look legit to me. What I don't understand is why they have a white truck with a DOT # that crosses to Enterprise rental in Birmingham, Alabama... NcStar has a CAGE Code (6PES7), which means they're "in the system," so I think these parts would be relatively simple to get through standard supply channels. Also, in many cases Air Force units don't get much leeway in how far individual Airmen can "customize" their weapons, and PJs are no exception. Those rails are "drop in" units, which means the unit armorer didn't have to change barrel nuts (you'd have to do that with the Geissele rail, but not with a Knights RIS), so they didn't require any special permission, either. If you look carefully, you can see that the guy in the background on the left has the same rail on his rifle. I'm thinking the unit may have had to set up some weapons that they didn't have "better respected" rails for, maybe just to participate in this clearly staged publicity picture. It is very common to rent vehicles when TDY and use them as needed . Don't read too much into the cage code thing- anyone can get a code. It doesn't mean you do/did business with the government, just that you've taken one step toward the process |
|
Originally Posted By Metro6:
Don't read too much into the cage code thing- anyone can get a code. It doesn't mean you do/did business with the government, just that you've taken one step toward the process Good point. I was just trying to make sense of this particular choice. I have this thing about me - weird stuff needs some sort of explanation... It makes things harder for me sometimes. 
|
"--you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."
Heinlein
NRA Life Member
Glock Certified Armorer
Certified AR15 Armorer
Certified M1911 Armorer
Heinlein
NRA Life Member
Glock Certified Armorer
Certified AR15 Armorer
Certified M1911 Armorer
Needs a bump.
 CALLSIGN: PEDRO |
|
Originally Posted By tonyxcom:
This thread needs some love. Here is my attempt. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4481604/forum-pics/pj-ar.jpg |
Mark it Zero!!
The laws of science be a harsh mistress.
Joined:
Sep 2012
Posts:
1374
EE: 100% (3)
USA
|
Time for a bump.
From teh google: Attached File Attached File |
|
Originally Posted By Augee:
Not sure if this one's been in this thread, but it's a USAFSOC carbine: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5051/5477155873_11c2f3833b_z.jpg From the Air Force's Flickr. ~Augee ETA: Found it https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5178/5477151319_96e45260a0_b.jpg |
|
Originally Posted By Make_Mine_Moxie:
Time for a bump. From teh google: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/314713/c37c32474283c67290c26a9d75ae9179--usaf-pj-the-hindu-324868.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/314713/maxresdefault-324869.JPG |
I'm not an addict,I just have a growing collection
Joined:
Apr 2014
Posts:
1927
EE: 100% (794)
NC, USA
|
Had some spare time today so I thought I'd take some pictures of my PJ clone rifle
While I was in the Army, did see a few PJs from time to time as they traveled to our little region of Afghanistan. I mainly spent time with Air Force EOD, got roped in as their driver on multiple missions so they would all dismount for big operations while I stayed with their truck. Good group of guys This started life as a Colt Expanse, mainly cause I wanted the upper and lower and ditched the BCG and barrel since they weren't true Colt. Has slowly expanded over the years into what you see now. Still need to get an optic, but that's on the to do list Colt LE marked M4 lower complete SPIKES T2 buffer Vltor FDE stock Tango Down FDE grip Colt "C" marked upper MagTech BUIS Colt BCG BCM Mod4 CH Colt 14.5" barrel pinned/welded by Adco Daniel Defense Omega rail KAC multicam rail panels Magpul AFG Surefire 951 FDE (need to replace the head cause it strobs) Vickers NSN sling Only thing I deviated on was having a Magpul enhanced trigger guard, seekins precision mag release button, and the MagPul BAD Attached File Attached File |
Blackfoot Company 2-23 IN 4/2 SBCT
OEF 12-13
"Stay classy gentleman, and don't touch my snickers bars" Cpt Barry Ammons, best damn CO I ever had
OEF 12-13
"Stay classy gentleman, and don't touch my snickers bars" Cpt Barry Ammons, best damn CO I ever had
The laws of science be a harsh mistress.
Joined:
Sep 2012
Posts:
1465
EE: 100% (3)
USA
|
Bump. I can't figure out how to embed the linked video from my phone, but there's some AFSOC carbine goodness after the jump: http://soldiersystems.net/2018/02/27/83rd-eprs/ |
-Captain Mark K. Weber, 29, of Colorado Springs, Colorado. -Captain Andreas B. O'Keeffe, 37, of Center Moriches, New York. -Captain Christopher T. Zanetis, 37, of Long Island City, New York. -Master Sergeant Christopher J. Raguso, 39, of Commack, New York. -Staff Sergeant Dashan J. Briggs, 30, of Port Jefferson Station, New York. -Master Sergeant William R. Posch, 36, of Indialantic, Florida. -Staff Sergeant Carl P. Enis, 31, of Tallahassee, Florida. 
|
|
Originally Posted By Gonzaar24:
Hey y'all I'm trying to get started on a Pj/afsoc clone I didn't read all the pages but isn't a an afsoc clone basically a block 1 but with different furniture |
If U can't Truck It F!@k It!
|
Originally Posted By imdBman: Good news for you, the AF unit level purchase leaves a large variety of aftermarket options open for a build. Could be a Blk I, Blk II M4A1 or a Mk18. I have seen all of those with them. I just left an AFSOC graduation that had 2 newer FN M4A1 Blk I on display. 1 had an M68 Aimpoint and the otber had a Trijicon reflex sight. The airman at the display said he had never seen that reflex sight before. This was a training facility not operational. |
|
Originally Posted By Gonzaar24: So does the afsoc community put whatever they want on their rifles? Or is there a specific requirement. Like I've seen nothing but dd omega and kac rails and what do you mean by unit level purchases? Different pots of money is all; the sky is nearly the limit for variation, as long as the commander signs off on it. The AF may issue Surefire lights, but a unit may decide they want a different brand or a light with a different capability, and purchase them for their guys. Same with things like the Vltor stocks. |
|
Originally Posted By Make_Mine_Moxie:
Whatever they want is a bit of a stretch, but many units on AFSOC have much more leeway for mounting different items. The cool guy units have massive budgets compared to conventional units, so they end up with a larger variety of gear and weapons accessories. Some of it is issued by the AF, some of it is purchased by individual units from their own funds. Different pots of money is all; the sky is nearly the limit for variation, as long as the commander signs off on it. The AF may issue Surefire lights, but a unit may decide they want a different brand or a light with a different capability, and purchase them for their guys. Same with things like the Vltor stocks. |
|
Originally Posted By Make_Mine_Moxie: Whatever they want is a bit of a stretch, but many units on AFSOC have much more leeway for mounting different items. The cool guy units have massive budgets compared to conventional units, so they end up with a larger variety of gear and weapons accessories. Some of it is issued by the AF, some of it is purchased by individual units from their own funds. Different pots of money is all; the sky is nearly the limit for variation, as long as the commander signs off on it. The AF may issue Surefire lights, but a unit may decide they want a different brand or a light with a different capability, and purchase them for their guys. Same with things like the Vltor stocks. Much simpler than that with the Vltor stocks: 1010-01-586-2718, VLTOR EMOD TAN 1010-01-586-2722, VLTOR EMOD BLACK 1010-01-586-2723, VLTOR EMOD GREEN 1010-01-586-3601, VLTOR IMOD STD TAN 1010-01-585-9988, VLTOR IMOD STD BLACK 1010-01-585-9994, VLTOR IMOD STD GREEN |
The cost of treason isn't paid in Dollars.
Joined:
Sep 2012
Posts:
2407
EE: 100% (3)
USA
|
Originally Posted By 2011BLDR: Much simpler than that with the Vltor stocks: 1010-01-586-2718, VLTOR EMOD TAN 1010-01-586-2722, VLTOR EMOD BLACK 1010-01-586-2723, VLTOR EMOD GREEN 1010-01-586-3601, VLTOR IMOD STD TAN 1010-01-585-9988, VLTOR IMOD STD BLACK 1010-01-585-9994, VLTOR IMOD STD GREEN Pic thread:  |
|
Originally Posted By Make_Mine_Moxie: Learn something new every day. Pic thread: https://www.airforce.com/version/1588838749/data/indemand/social-image-14.jpg Looks more CCT than PJ. |
The cost of treason isn't paid in Dollars.
Joined:
Sep 2012
Posts:
2408
EE: 100% (3)
USA
|
Cool thread, subscribed! I was surprised to see this pop up in active threads, I have never seen it before. Some cool builds here and I love the AF, being retired after 27 years. I was under the 129th RQW out of Moffett FAF, CA for most of my career but at a smaller GSU, squadron level. When 9/11 happened I got assigned to Security Forces/Force Protection at Moffett for several months. I was a young TSGT and didn't own an AR at the time. I'm pretty sure we were issued A2's but swore they were safe/semi/full. I got to go full auto a couple times after shooting expert, but that may have been an A1. The PJ's, CATM and SF didn't have a unit level armorer so we had this Army guy that would show up every few months to work on the PJ's gun. He was always setting off the vault alarm and we'd have to respond Code 3. Once we got there and called all clear I usually hung out a bit and observed. I mean, who doesn't want to hang out with PJ's and their guns! I mostly remember them having M4's and was always wishing I could get a collapsible stock and quad rail. I don't recall the specifics but I remember a pretty standard config and most had lights and lasers. There was this PJ who showed up at our M9 qualification course one day with a 1911. The other PJ's were giving him a bad time about it but I thought it was cool. I remember him sitting down about 15 yards behind the firing line on the bleachers and shooting at the 50 yard line targets. He was making hits and shot better than some of the other PJ's with their 9's. The RSO cut the PJ's a lot of slack, the closest thing to SOF to visit his range. The PJ's were super busy during this time and since we spent a lot of time on the flight line we got to watch them train on fast-rope, touch-and-goes, etc. The 129th also has C-130's and those guy were always flying everywhere and practicing drops, etc. It was good duty. I got to work days and as a NCO I was mostly assigned to patrol so I didn't have to watch rivets too much. No rifle pic, although I have some other clones that are close, but here is me one rare day when the Pave Hawks were parked. 
|
|
(copied from the MK18/CQBR thread) Geissele MK16 9.3" spotted in the wild. Notice the 1/2 MLOK slot on the gun just to the right of the blue jacket. MK16 9.3" rails = kosher(?) Attached File Mine: Attached File |
Deep State Timeline - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cialWWJ907vV3b9HPS2lhEspZh0WoPHqixUuKed_hFI/edit#gid=125747095
|
Close up: Attached File Geissele MK16 9.3" Attached File EDIT: Further digging states that these are PJs from the 48th Rescue Squadron.
Attached File High-Res image: https://external-preview.redd.it/4UhEm5u7VrIK9o5SBG21-ewXa2JbHMZpdMAM5UM7LQE.jpg?auto=webp&s=4646319daf854d986740c62a5512698a1734299a |
Deep State Timeline - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cialWWJ907vV3b9HPS2lhEspZh0WoPHqixUuKed_hFI/edit#gid=125747095
The cost of treason isn't paid in Dollars.
Joined:
Sep 2012
Posts:
2426
EE: 100% (3)
USA
|
Originally Posted By PFran42: (copied from the MK18/CQBR thread) Geissele MK16 9.3" spotted in the wild. Notice the 1/2 MLOK slot on the gun just to the right of the blue jacket. MK16 9.3" rails = kosher(?) https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/309598/D28-DC089-8231-43-B1-A4-D4-B50322502-E19-1486046.JPG Mine: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/309598/IMG_20200416_152707_jpg-1486048.JPG |
|
Originally Posted By Make_Mine_Moxie: The pistol grip on the carbine on the far right in the foreground looks a bit unusual, almost like horizontal serrations. I can't tell if it is actually a non-standard grip of some sort, or just dust and crud flying around in the photo. M249 Attached File Attached File |
Deep State Timeline - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cialWWJ907vV3b9HPS2lhEspZh0WoPHqixUuKed_hFI/edit#gid=125747095
AFSOC Para Rescue/PJ Unit LVL Purchase carbine discussion thread (Page 12 of 13)
AR Sponsor