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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Fail Zero (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 9/16/2011 6:17:41 AM EDT
| Sorry my search fu is weak. My neighbor asked me about it, and I had never heard of it. Snake oil, or the real deal? Sounds to good to be true, not having to lube. |
| I just ordered my 2nd Spikes NiB carrier and bolt from AIM. They are coated by Fail Zero. First one I bought convinced me it was worth it. I don't run them without lube, but you could. I have no fear now of a round not cycling. And they are super easy on cleanup. |
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Fail Zero no longer coats individual parts. But a few of the people from Fail Zero broke off and started a new company... I don't know much about them but I do know that one of the people who broke off I have spoken too many times when he worked with Fail Zero and I think he is a pretty stand up guy.
I plan on sending my PredatAR to them for a upper/forearm/lower coating. The company is called WMDguns i think. |
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Custom Coatings -WMD Guns
While I haven't had them do any work yet, I plan on it. Very fast at responding, just shoot them an email. |
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For the $140.00 difference in price you can buy a several lifetime supply of lube. |
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Custom Coatings -WMD Guns While I haven't had them do any work yet, I plan on it. Very fast at responding, just shoot them an email. I had them do two complete BCG's for me at $100 each. Cleanup is super easy on the NiB coating...works nice. Only one range trip so far. |
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Custom Coatings -WMD Guns While I haven't had them do any work yet, I plan on it. Very fast at responding, just shoot them an email. I had them do two complete BCG's for me at $100 each. Cleanup is super easy on the NiB coating...works nice. Only one range trip so far. What kind of turn around do these guys have? |
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Custom Coatings -WMD Guns While I haven't had them do any work yet, I plan on it. Very fast at responding, just shoot them an email. I had them do two complete BCG's for me at $100 each. Cleanup is super easy on the NiB coating...works nice. Only one range trip so far. What kind of turn around do these guys have? It was about three weeks. Shoot them an email, they'll let you know. |
| did my whole sig 220 in NP3......absolutely the best finish in my opinion, over 5 years with countless rounds in it....no wear what so ever, slick as snot and cleaning it means just wiping it down....I have not oiled it since the NP3 and rust will never be an issue |
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I have a Fail Zero on my 10.5 RRA SBR and it runs like a champ. I have shot that upper suppressed, on a FA HK416 lower and I love it. The only problem I had with mine was changing out the extractor. I went with the upgraded extractor from Brownells, and no jueno. Put the factory RRA extractor back in it and never a hiccup since. Well worth the money you will spend. |
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I had a fail zero bolt on my Full Auto, It failed after about 1000 rounds suppressed. It started really slowing down and binding as I shot more. I assume from the extra little bit of coating.
Went back to a regular bolt but still use the fail zero carrier, no problems now. |
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I was told specifically by Noveske not to run a failzero carrier as the coating is too hard and actually will wear the inner upper receiver.Just FWIW - not bashing FZ products This is also why no one recommends chromed (externally chrome plated) bolt carriers. An extra hard carrier rubbing inside soft aluminum receiver is not good. |
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I was told specifically by Noveske not to run a failzero carrier as the coating is too hard and actually will wear the inner upper receiver.Just FWIW - not bashing FZ products This is also why no one recommends chromed (externally chrome plated) bolt carriers. An extra hard carrier rubbing inside soft aluminum receiver is not good. I wonder if getting the upper receiver coated would help this. If it's really enough of a problem to be concerned about. I assume that the Fail Zero, other NiB, or chrome is harder than the anodizing that is done and wearing through to bare aluminum faster? |
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Yea, NP3 is nickel teflon vs. the nickel boron, so should in theory be even smoother. based on what? Not baiting, curious. Because teflon has the lowest coefficient of friction known to man. Boron is more durable, but not as slick. Both are very smooth though. As far as receiver wear, I wouldn't worry about it. the carrier can only wear the receiver so much as it is stuck on a consistent track. It will reach a point where it will wear no further. It's not like the carrier keeps pushing itself further and further up, eventually trying to work itself out of your receiver. It stays on the same track / path and that's it. |
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Custom Coatings -WMD Guns While I haven't had them do any work yet, I plan on it. Very fast at responding, just shoot them an email. I had them do two complete BCG's for me at $100 each. Cleanup is super easy on the NiB coating...works nice. Only one range trip so far. What kind of turn around do these guys have? It was about three weeks. Shoot them an email, they'll let you know. Maybe a stupid question, but would they do a magwell or would it be worth it? The reason I ask is my lower was having trouble dropping pmags and I did a little sanding. They now drop free but I don't like the finish. Would this coating be worth it in the magwell, does it even work like that? |
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I was told specifically by Noveske not to run a failzero carrier as the coating is too hard and actually will wear the inner upper receiver.Just FWIW - not bashing FZ products This is also why no one recommends chromed (externally chrome plated) bolt carriers. An extra hard carrier rubbing inside soft aluminum receiver is not good. I wonder if getting the upper receiver coated would help this. If it's really enough of a problem to be concerned about. I assume that the Fail Zero, other NiB, or chrome is harder than the anodizing that is done and wearing through to bare aluminum faster? Aren't the inside of POF uppers coated with a Fail Zero-like coating? If upper wear with a Fail Zero carrier was an issue, I would think just a normal phospate coated BCG would also cause excessive wear. The steel of a normal BCG is much, much harder than the aluminum of the upper receiver surrounding it... Just a thought. |
| I own 2 Fail Zero bolts and they work as advertised. They are extremely easy to clean if you ever decide to clean them. I have a buddy who ran just over 2000 rounds in an 11.5 sbr and ran it suppressed for half of it. He didn't clean nor did he lube. He did it as a torture test to see how good they were. I can honestly say that I feel very comfortable knowing my rifle will work when I need it. If you have an SBR I suggest it and if you are running that rifle suppressed than I suggest it strongly too. It will make a standard rifle much easier to maintain too. |
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I was told specifically by Noveske not to run a failzero carrier as the coating is too hard and actually will wear the inner upper receiver.Just FWIW - not bashing FZ products This is also why no one recommends chromed (externally chrome plated) bolt carriers. An extra hard carrier rubbing inside soft aluminum receiver is not good. I have a fail zero upper I use with mine. Its coated on the inside and cerakoted black on the outside. I'm not doubting they told you that or there's not some reason, but it seems like the same could be said with a regular BCG as well. Steel is harder than aluminum last time I checked... |
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I was told specifically by Noveske not to run a failzero carrier as the coating is too hard and actually will wear the inner upper receiver.Just FWIW - not bashing FZ products This is also why no one recommends chromed (externally chrome plated) bolt carriers. An extra hard carrier rubbing inside soft aluminum receiver is not good. I have a fail zero upper I use with mine. Its coated on the inside and cerakoted black on the outside. I'm not doubting they told you that or there's not some reason, but it seems like the same could be said with a regular BCG as well. Steel is harder than aluminum last time I checked... Do you see an advantage of having the exterior of the bolt carrier fail zero coated or the inside of the upper? I've hand cycled POFs with a similar setup, and they were extremely smooth. A majority of the nasty fouling I've cleaned off my DI guns is inside the BCG, on the bolt, and on the firing pin. I run a LMT enhanced bolt in my 20" DI gun which is coated with a fail zero like coating.. I believe the inside of the BCG of that gun is chrome lined, as well as the gas key. I was thinking of sending my BCG into WMD to have it coated as well, but didn't know if it was worth it or not. |
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did my whole sig 220 in NP3......absolutely the best finish in my opinion, over 5 years with countless rounds in it....no wear what so ever, slick as snot and cleaning it means just wiping it down....I have not oiled it since the NP3 and rust will never be an issue Can we see it? Pics FTW! That really sounds awesome! |
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I was told specifically by Noveske not to run a failzero carrier as the coating is too hard and actually will wear the inner upper receiver.Just FWIW - not bashing FZ products This is also why no one recommends chromed (externally chrome plated) bolt carriers. An extra hard carrier rubbing inside soft aluminum receiver is not good. I have a fail zero upper I use with mine. Its coated on the inside and cerakoted black on the outside. I'm not doubting they told you that or there's not some reason, but it seems like the same could be said with a regular BCG as well. Steel is harder than aluminum last time I checked... Do you see an advantage of having the exterior of the bolt carrier fail zero coated or the inside of the upper? I've hand cycled POFs with a similar setup, and they were extremely smooth. A majority of the nasty fouling I've cleaned off my DI guns is inside the BCG, on the bolt, and on the firing pin. I run a LMT enhanced bolt in my 20" DI gun which is coated with a fail zero like coating.. I believe the inside of the BCG of that gun is chrome lined, as well as the gas key. I was thinking of sending my BCG into WMD to have it coated as well, but didn't know if it was worth it or not. I feel like the whole thing is smoother. I also got the Fail Zero charging handle and the Spikes trigger set in it. It may be all in my head, but the operation feels very clean and the trigger seems a little more crisp. I put a drop or two of slip 2000 before use and it works like a charm. I did add an O-ring to the bolt due to 1 FTE early on, but its been 100% since. This rifle looks like the Bravo filthy 14 but has a DD barrel and all Fail Zero upgrades. Its one of my later home builds. I shot about 150 American Eagles from walmart (had a number of FTF, but I think thats ammo related) and cleanup took all of 2 minutes with nothing more than a paper towel and a few drops of slip. |
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I contacted WMD and asked them a few questions about the process and what was applicable. Here are my questions and their answers in red.
1. You're probably familiar with the MRP, but it is a monolithic upper receiver that the rail system is apart of the upper receiver. Is this an issue for coating the upper? Any additional cost? It depends on whether we can plug the barrel or not. 2. Can barrel extension be coated on an existing barrel? If so, how much would this cost? usually yes if we can remove the barrel, we would coat the entire barrel 3. Since my MRP is piston operated, I would like to have the gas piston coated as well. What would this cost? $15 if I’m current on my price sheet 4. Have you coated any receiver extensions internally? I have a PWS 416 billet extension that I think would benefit from having this coating. yes, many. 5. Have you coated any buffers? yes, but not usually, if you are speaking of recoil buffers. 6. I'd like to have the core of my BAD ASS 45 degree selector coated, would this be an issue? it is a dip process so the whole part would be subject 7. Any issues with coating the Geissele SSA trigger group? no 8. Any experience coating parts of a Benelli M4? Would it be possible to coat the receiver? I can remove the receiver extension if needed. The extension is stainless steel and it would benefit from an internal coating along with the plunger that reciprocates inside it. Can you coat titanium? I'd like to have the magazine tube's interior and follower coated as well. The bolt carrier group would benefit obviously. The hammer too. none on the Benelli, we could examine it for coating possibilities and call you with recommendations 9. What kind of time frames are you looking at for completing these jobs? usually 4 weeks. Can you imagine how many rounds a LMT MRP piston operated rifle could handle before cleaning would be required with all the internals coated in Nickel Boron? People claim there is no benefit to coating the lower. This is not correct. Magazines drop free better. Bolt releases less less gritty when debris is beneath it. Push pins feel smoother. Have your receiver extension done and it will lessen spring noise. Add a LWRC ACB and a POF roller cam to further enhance the reliability and smoothness. Nickel Boron on the barrel extension? Sign me up for that! |
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I recently orderd a Spikes NiB BCG for my next build along with one of their lowers with the coated FCG.
Now with this talk of coating other parts, l'll have to re-think a few other things. I would question though the coating of the barrel extension. Yea the bolt gets coated(for ease of cleaning?), but does anyone think doing the extnesion as well could lead to premature unlocking due to the camming surfaces on the extension and bolt being extra slick? Those surfaces are designed to keep the bolt locked until the psi drops off enough for safe cycling, I wonder if it could cause it to unlock too early, or am I just overthinking things again? 
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I recently orderd a Spikes NiB BCG for my next build along with one of their lowers with the coated FCG. Now with this talk of coating other parts, l'll have to re-think a few other things. I would question though the coating of the barrel extension. Yea the bolt gets coated(for ease of cleaning?), but does anyone think doing the extnesion as well could lead to premature unlocking due to the camming surfaces on the extension and bolt being extra slick? Those surfaces are designed to keep the bolt locked until the psi drops off enough for safe cycling, I wonder if it could cause it to unlock too early, or am I just overthinking things again? probably overthinking. All of Spikes Tactical Lothar Walther barrels have the extension coated and ive never heard of any issues. i REALLY want one of those barrels... but they won't sell as anything other than the complete upper. 
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I recently orderd a Spikes NiB BCG for my next build along with one of their lowers with the coated FCG. Now with this talk of coating other parts, l'll have to re-think a few other things. I would question though the coating of the barrel extension. Yea the bolt gets coated(for ease of cleaning?), but does anyone think doing the extnesion as well could lead to premature unlocking due to the camming surfaces on the extension and bolt being extra slick? Those surfaces are designed to keep the bolt locked until the psi drops off enough for safe cycling, I wonder if it could cause it to unlock too early, or am I just overthinking things again? You're talking a DI gun right? The gas pressure is what keeps the bolt itself forward until pressure drops off enough. Until that pressure drops the two sets of lugs don't even touch. When the gas enters the expansion chamber in the carrier, it pushes forward on the bolt, holding it in place, and back on the carrier until the carrier (not the bolt, but the carrier alone) moves back far enough for the two gas ports to let the gas vent. By that time the bolt has rotated enough that it's lugs will clear the ones on the barrel extension. |
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I contacted WMD and asked them a few questions about the process and what was applicable. Here are my questions and their answers in red. 6. I'd like to have the core of my BAD ASS 45 degree selector coated, would this be an issue? it is a dip process so the whole part would be subject ! This is an interesting idea. I might have this done to some internals. I especially like the idea of coating the inside of the upper receiver but based on the quote it sounds like the whole receiver would have to be dipped.... wonder if dura coat or something similar would stick to the outside to get it back to black or what ever color you want. |
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I recently orderd a Spikes NiB BCG for my next build along with one of their lowers with the coated FCG. Now with this talk of coating other parts, l'll have to re-think a few other things. I would question though the coating of the barrel extension. Yea the bolt gets coated(for ease of cleaning?), but does anyone think doing the extnesion as well could lead to premature unlocking due to the camming surfaces on the extension and bolt being extra slick? Those surfaces are designed to keep the bolt locked until the psi drops off enough for safe cycling, I wonder if it could cause it to unlock too early, or am I just overthinking things again? You're talking a DI gun right? The gas pressure is what keeps the bolt itself forward until pressure drops off enough. Until that pressure drops the two sets of lugs don't even touch. When the gas enters the expansion chamber in the carrier, it pushes forward on the bolt, holding it in place, and back on the carrier until the carrier (not the bolt, but the carrier alone) moves back far enough for the two gas ports to let the gas vent. By that time the bolt has rotated enough that it's lugs will clear the ones on the barrel extension. Thanks. Guess my brain is on overtime! While browsing the AR15 Brownells catalog I noticed they sell barrel extensions with this coating, as well as upper receivers, charging handles, BCG's, FCG etc. Did'nt notice any lowers with it though. Whats involved with changing a barrel extension? I've built numerous AR's and have the tools to change barrels, check headspace etc, but not to change the extension itself. Is it a tough job? I don't recall ever seeing anyone selling barrels without them already mounted on. I would think one could run into indexing/headspace issues? |
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changing a barrel extension on a barrel with a gas port already drilled is NOT worth the trouble.
yes you can paint the outside of NiB coated things... light prep scuffing and its ready to go. 
left to right - NiB coated upper with clear anodized lower - NiB coated upper with OD cerakote and OD gunkoted lower - NiB coated upper and standard black lower |
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Yeah, it took about ten minutes of fondling my first NiB BCG and LPK to start looking around thinking, hmmm.. This would be cool to have coated.. and this.. and this..
and maybe this.. etc, etc, etc. I'm lucky nobody local does it or I'd have a lot of slick corrosion free stuff around, and much less money. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Fail Zero (Page 1 of 2)
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