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Posted: 10/8/2010 12:05:24 PM EDT
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I had a question pertaining to the barrel length of an AR-15. I'm looking at a Armalite M15A3. At least that is what I was told. I know it is an Armalite, but not sure on the A3 part. The gun was purchased new about two years ago and has had less than 200 rounds ran through it. My question is as follows.
The rifle has a 20" barrel on it by measuring from the start end of the receiver to the end of the barrel. I assume this is where you measure from because it looks too long to be only a 16" barrel. I have looked on Armalite's website and do not see a rifle with a 20" barrel, only 16" barrels. The rifle is stamped 5.56, which I know means the NATO round as well as it will also shoot .223 rounds. I'm just curious as to what model of rifle it is and if I'm measuring the barrel length correctly. The rifle came as a flat top, but has had a carry handle added. The condition of the rifle is flawless and I can pick it up for $800. Just wondering if I'm getting a good deal and what the rifle actually is. Sorry if these questions are beating a dead horse, but I'm new at this AR stuff. Any information or help anyone can provide will be appreciated. Thank you. |
 I bought an Armalite in 20" & .308 this year.
Armalite may have started making these guns in 20 inch models, but the 16" and shorter are dominating the market right now and they may have dropped that version from their line. I know my FFL doesn't normally stock 20" AR's, but keeps plenty of 16" on the rack. The price is about right. My FFL just sold a 16" new Bushmaster for $750 last week. I think the A3 upper means that you can take off the carry handle. If you buy the 20", I would take off the handle and scope or put an electronic sight on your Armalite. |
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Armalite does make 20" barrels.
If the entire gun came from Armalite then the barrel should be chrome lined. The A3 means it's a flat-top and if the carry handle has been added, you can just take it off and have the flat top again. Armalite makes a really good product. If you are looking to buy an AR the $800 tag is reasonable depending on prices in your area, but you could do better if you shop around. |
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Armalite does make 20" barrels. If the entire gun came from Armalite then the barrel should be chrome lined. The A3 means it's a flat-top and if the carry handle has been added, you can just take it off and have the flat top again. Armalite makes a really good product. If you are looking to buy an AR the $800 tag is reasonable depending on prices in your area, but you could do better if you shop around. Yes, the barrel is chromed lined and the entire weapon is Armalite both upper and lower. Guy has the box, owners manual, has installed a CCA three-point harness also. It has the adjustable stock and as said, doesn't have a scratch on it. |
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Yes Armalite still makes several 20' barreled rifles. They make an SPR and a NM as well as the M15A4.. Price sound o.k.
does it have a standard front sight or is it a flip up BUIS type? Also what do you mean by adjustable stock? Is it a A2 / full stock or is it retractable? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Armalite does make 20" barrels. If the entire gun came from Armalite then the barrel should be chrome lined. The A3 means it's a flat-top and if the carry handle has been added, you can just take it off and have the flat top again. Armalite makes a really good product. If you are looking to buy an AR the $800 tag is reasonable depending on prices in your area, but you could do better if you shop around. Yes, the barrel is chromed lined and the entire weapon is Armalite both upper and lower. Guy has the box, owners manual, has installed a CCA three-point harness also. It has the adjustable stock and as said, doesn't have a scratch on it. hmmmm....probably not a 20" Either way, 20" or 16" only matters to YOU. Do you want a 20" or 16"? I don't see length affecting price as much either way |
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To measure the barrel length, close the bolt and drop a LONG cleaning rod down into the barrel from the muzzle end. When it's all the way down (resting on the bolt face) mark the rod at the end of the flash hider. Now take the rod out and measure from the end that was on the bolt face to the mark. This will be roughly 1-1 1/2" longer than the actual barrel length due to the flash hider, but you will not confuse a 16" barrel for a 20" barrel in this manner.
This, by the way, is the established method for measuring barrel length for legal purposes, except that you'd remove a removable flash hider before making the measurement. |
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Yes Armalite still makes several 20' barreled rifles. They make an SPR and a NM as well as the M15A4.. Price sound o.k. does it have a standard front sight or is it a flip up BUIS type? Also what do you mean by adjustable stock? Is it a A2 / full stock or is it retractable? It has the standard front site I assume. However, the site can be taken off the rifle if you want to. The site is not permanently made on the rifle. As for the adjustable stock, it moves in and out and has different stopping points where you can make it shorter or longer. I counted six different positions on the stock settings. I measured the barrel from the back of the fore grip to the end of the flash suppressor and it was 20". The owners manual said the rifle was equipped with a National match trigger or something also. I'm just trying to figure out exactly what the rifle is. As for the question about the upper and lower, it is matching Armalite. |
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OK, its an Armalite, if it really is. So for Armalite fans, then $800 must sound reasonable. But consider this - you can almost buy brand new BCM, RRA, and other rifles for less. Really, we need pictures if you have any, and more specs. Is the barrel chrome-lined or whatever flavor it comes in nowadays? I'm not going to assume its chrome-lined b/c many decent AR manufacturers will actually price their baseline models without the chrome-lining. Their website is a lot like Dell Computer - once you add in allt he options you should have, its about as much as someoen else's AR with the bells and whistles. Heavy barrel? M4-profile? Railed foreend, free-float? The flattop tells me soemthing has rails on it. Telestock, and who'se telestock? Who'se furntiure for that matter - Armalites? What's at the muzzle - flash suppressor, muzzle brake, or a smooth crowned barrel??? Gas block - std front sight block or low-profile? Railed? What about the upper reciever - condition of the bolt/bcg? Carry handle coudl be worth soemthing, but you never know if it was an after-market one. And as for flawless, you can make any rifle look almost flawless using Birchwood-Casey's Barricade spray or better yet, any brand of epoxy-coat. Check the chamber for cleanliness. Check for excessive wear inside the upper receiver, rear and bottom of the BCG, and buffer tube. Check how bad any dings on the case deflector. Look around the edges of the front gas block for rust peaking out from the barrel. Check the pins (that hold a sling swivel and/or the gas tube) on the front gas block - rust will usually peak out from there if it hasn't been kept too well. But just a hint of rust that comes off from those areas mentioned is nothing to be worried about. But KISS - I wouldn't pay $800 for a rifle that's been fired 200 or so rounds. There's no way you can tell if its 200 or 1K or 2K. I've got a few identical HBAR's - one with ~250rds thru it, one with ~1200-1500rds, one with ~3-4K, and one that's never been fired. The ones with ~250 and ~1200rds clean up and shine the same way - can't tell the difference. NEED MORE DETAILED SPECS |
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Make sure the barrel is stamped 5.56. As for the description you gave it doesn't sound normal for a factory AR15. You should ask the seller for the serial number and either call Armalite and ask for a lookup, or post this in the Armalite Industry section. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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OK, its an Armalite, if it really is. So for Armalite fans, then $800 must sound reasonable. But consider this - you can almost buy brand new BCM, RRA, and other rifles for less. Really, we need pictures if you have any, and more specs. Is the barrel chrome-lined or whatever flavor it comes in nowadays? I'm not going to assume its chrome-lined b/c many decent AR manufacturers will actually price their baseline models without the chrome-lining. Their website is a lot like Dell Computer - once you add in allt he options you should have, its about as much as someoen else's AR with the bells and whistles. Heavy barrel? M4-profile? Railed foreend, free-float? The flattop tells me soemthing has rails on it. Telestock, and who'se telestock? Who'se furntiure for that matter - Armalites? What's at the muzzle - flash suppressor, muzzle brake, or a smooth crowned barrel??? Gas block - std front sight block or low-profile? Railed? What about the upper reciever - condition of the bolt/bcg? Carry handle coudl be worth soemthing, but you never know if it was an after-market one. And as for flawless, you can make any rifle look almost flawless using Birchwood-Casey's Barricade spray or better yet, any brand of epoxy-coat. Check the chamber for cleanliness. Check for excessive wear inside the upper receiver, rear and bottom of the BCG, and buffer tube. Check how bad any dings on the case deflector. Look around the edges of the front gas block for rust peaking out from the barrel. Check the pins (that hold a sling swivel and/or the gas tube) on the front gas block - rust will usually peak out from there if it hasn't been kept too well. But just a hint of rust that comes off from those areas mentioned is nothing to be worried about. But KISS - I wouldn't pay $800 for a rifle that's been fired 200 or so rounds. There's no way you can tell if its 200 or 1K or 2K. I've got a few identical HBAR's - one with ~250rds thru it, one with ~1200-1500rds, one with ~3-4K, and one that's never been fired. The ones with ~250 and ~1200rds clean up and shine the same way - can't tell the difference. NEED MORE DETAILED SPECS Yes, it is an Armalite. We have established that and I'm a pretty good hand to read. As for using Birchwood-Casey on it, I know it has never been touched up because as stated earlier in the post, I know the complete history of this rifle. From the guy who purchased it brand new in the box to the guy I'm buying if from, my father-in-law. I've checked the things you mentioned and it is spotless everywhere. I closed the bolt and inserted a cleaning rod into the barrel, marketing it when it comes out the end of the flash suppressor. It measures just under 21 1/4". I don't know all the small marks between 1/4 and 1/2". I'm assuming the length past 20" is the flash suppressor size. As for the adjustable stock on the rifle, it is a RRA and was added by the original owner as I learned today. I'm going tomorrow to pick up the factory solid Armalite stock that was on the rifle when he bought it new. I have supplied a picture of the rifle below with the added scope rail on top of the top of the rifle. I'm going to call Armalite Monday with the serial number to find out the exact specs of the rifle. Thanks to everyone who has added comments. http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af287/bucknastyoutdoors/DSCN0971.jpg |
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That is indeed what we'd expect you to measure with a 20" barrel. Yeah, I went back and re-read another posters information and he explained the added length of the flash suppressor. I guess my best bet is to call Armalite and give them the serial number to get the exact specs of the rifle. As stated, I'm new to this and am just now getting into the AR field. |
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Well, if you're buying it from your father-in-law, then $800 sounds like a deal. I wouldn't question my father-in-law's assessment then, unles your wife does. He'll probably throw in some extra's anyway, if not now, then in the long run. Looks like a sweet rifle. Not sure how a telestock fits on a 20". I had some 20" HBAR's with the solid A2 stocks but never tried them with a tele. It didn't seem it would balance right. That doesn't look like a standard gas block - more like a low-profile railed one with detachable BUIS - you mentioned that the front "sight is not permanently made on the rifle"... but where's the rear BUIS - well not a big deal...you can always add one. Well, as long as the upper and lower receivers are both Armalite, and you can get the original Armalite stock, you're GTG (in case you want to sell it as a "complete Armalite" in the future). Does it come with any mags? The pic shows what looks like a 10rd mag??? See if your father-in-law will throw in a couple 30rd mags, or better yet, PMags. |
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Well, if you're buying it from your father-in-law, then $800 sounds like a deal. I wouldn't question my father-in-law's assessment then, unles your wife does. He'll probably throw in some extra's anyway, if not now, then in the long run. Looks like a sweet rifle. Not sure how a telestock fits on a 20". I had some 20" HBAR's with the solid A2 stocks but never tried them with a tele. It didn't seem it would balance right. That doesn't look like a standard gas block - more like a low-profile railed one with detachable BUIS - you mentioned that the front "sight is not permanently made on the rifle"... but where's the rear BUIS - well not a big deal...you can always add one. Well, as long as the upper and lower receivers are both Armalite, and you can get the original Armalite stock, you're GTG (in case you want to sell it as a "complete Armalite" in the future). Does it come with any mags? The pic shows what looks like a 10rd mag??? See if your father-in-law will throw in a couple 30rd mags, or better yet, PMags. The front site was added after my father-in-law got the rifle. As for the rear, they are on the carry handle that comes with the rifle and has elevation and windage adjustments on it. It, the carry handle, contains a wheel that turns either counter clock and clock wise to adjust the up and down, as well as left to right on the iron site. The rifle feels real comfortable, to me anyway, with the adjustable stock. I was popping tennis balls from 100 yds with it yesterday spitting out 69gr. Black Hills. Yes, it does have a 10 round mag in the picture, but I do have three 30 rounders with it. I called the original owner of the rifle and am picking up the stock Armalite stock tomorrow. I'm not up to speed on all the AR terminology as you mentioned standard gas block and more like a low profile railed with detachable BUIS. The top of the receiver has a detachable rail that the scope mounts on or you can mount the carry handle onto it. I'm going to call Armalite tomorrow and see if I can get the exact specs on the rifle. Thanks for your information and guidance on the rifle though. As for the wife...It's always better to ask for forgiveness than get permission. But I've been putting in 60+ hours a week for quite a while to save up for a couple different firearms, so the wife didn't say anything..LOL. Now all I have to get is a 23 Glock and an SPS Tactical 700 Remmy in .308 and I'm done for a while..LOL |
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Quoted: Quoted: Well, if you're buying it from your father-in-law, then $800 sounds like a deal. I wouldn't question my father-in-law's assessment then, unles your wife does. He'll probably throw in some extra's anyway, if not now, then in the long run. Looks like a sweet rifle. Not sure how a telestock fits on a 20". I had some 20" HBAR's with the solid A2 stocks but never tried them with a tele. It didn't seem it would balance right. That doesn't look like a standard gas block - more like a low-profile railed one with detachable BUIS - you mentioned that the front "sight is not permanently made on the rifle"... but where's the rear BUIS - well not a big deal...you can always add one. Well, as long as the upper and lower receivers are both Armalite, and you can get the original Armalite stock, you're GTG (in case you want to sell it as a "complete Armalite" in the future). Does it come with any mags? The pic shows what looks like a 10rd mag??? See if your father-in-law will throw in a couple 30rd mags, or better yet, PMags. The front site was added after my father-in-law got the rifle. As for the rear, they are on the carry handle that comes with the rifle and has elevation and windage adjustments on it. It, the carry handle, contains a wheel that turns either counter clock and clock wise to adjust the up and down, as well as left to right on the iron site. The rifle feels real comfortable, to me anyway, with the adjustable stock. I was popping tennis balls from 100 yds with it yesterday spitting out 69gr. Black Hills. Yes, it does have a 10 round mag in the picture, but I do have three 30 rounders with it. I called the original owner of the rifle and am picking up the stock Armalite stock tomorrow. I'm not up to speed on all the AR terminology as you mentioned standard gas block and more like a low profile railed with detachable BUIS. The top of the receiver has a detachable rail that the scope mounts on or you can mount the carry handle onto it. I'm going to call Armalite tomorrow and see if I can get the exact specs on the rifle. Thanks for your information and guidance on the rifle though. As for the wife...It's always better to ask for forgiveness than get permission. But I've been putting in 60+ hours a week for quite a while to save up for a couple different firearms, so the wife didn't say anything..LOL. Now all I have to get is a 23 Glock and an SPS Tactical 700 Remmy in .308 and I'm done for a while..LOL That's right - I forgot about the detachable carry handle with the rear sight on it. If its an Armalite carry handle too, then it adds value to the whole setup - it does, but I'm not sure by how much. All in all, for $800, for original upper, lower, buttstock, 200 or so rounds, with front BUIS and detachable carry handle/rear sight, I'd say its a really good deal. And a great rifle to start your AR experiences with. Play around with the "iron sights" first, like what you're already doing with those tennis balls at 100yds. Since you've got rails already, you are GTG on optics later on. I hear ya about the wifey and forgiveness. usually works every time, but it can get costly...you might have to buy her a nice handbag or shoes first before you can throw some more $$ at a Glock or another long gun w/o her blowing some steam. Works every time for me... in other words, if I want another AR, it actually costs me an AR plus really nice shoes for her. I call it "spouse inflation"  !Have fun! |
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Well, if you're buying it from your father-in-law, then $800 sounds like a deal. I wouldn't question my father-in-law's assessment then, unles your wife does. He'll probably throw in some extra's anyway, if not now, then in the long run. Looks like a sweet rifle. Not sure how a telestock fits on a 20". I had some 20" HBAR's with the solid A2 stocks but never tried them with a tele. It didn't seem it would balance right. That doesn't look like a standard gas block - more like a low-profile railed one with detachable BUIS - you mentioned that the front "sight is not permanently made on the rifle"... but where's the rear BUIS - well not a big deal...you can always add one. Well, as long as the upper and lower receivers are both Armalite, and you can get the original Armalite stock, you're GTG (in case you want to sell it as a "complete Armalite" in the future). Does it come with any mags? The pic shows what looks like a 10rd mag??? See if your father-in-law will throw in a couple 30rd mags, or better yet, PMags. The front site was added after my father-in-law got the rifle. As for the rear, they are on the carry handle that comes with the rifle and has elevation and windage adjustments on it. It, the carry handle, contains a wheel that turns either counter clock and clock wise to adjust the up and down, as well as left to right on the iron site. The rifle feels real comfortable, to me anyway, with the adjustable stock. I was popping tennis balls from 100 yds with it yesterday spitting out 69gr. Black Hills. Yes, it does have a 10 round mag in the picture, but I do have three 30 rounders with it. I called the original owner of the rifle and am picking up the stock Armalite stock tomorrow. I'm not up to speed on all the AR terminology as you mentioned standard gas block and more like a low profile railed with detachable BUIS. The top of the receiver has a detachable rail that the scope mounts on or you can mount the carry handle onto it. I'm going to call Armalite tomorrow and see if I can get the exact specs on the rifle. Thanks for your information and guidance on the rifle though. As for the wife...It's always better to ask for forgiveness than get permission. But I've been putting in 60+ hours a week for quite a while to save up for a couple different firearms, so the wife didn't say anything..LOL. Now all I have to get is a 23 Glock and an SPS Tactical 700 Remmy in .308 and I'm done for a while..LOL That's right - I forgot about the detachable carry handle with the rear sight on it. If its an Armalite carry handle too, then it adds value to the whole setup - it does, but I'm not sure by how much. All in all, for $800, for original upper, lower, buttstock, 200 or so rounds, with front BUIS and detachable carry handle/rear sight, I'd say its a really good deal. And a great rifle to start your AR experiences with. Play around with the "iron sights" first, like what you're already doing with those tennis balls at 100yds. Since you've got rails already, you are GTG on optics later on. I hear ya about the wifey and forgiveness. usually works every time, but it can get costly...you might have to buy her a nice handbag or shoes first before you can throw some more $$ at a Glock or another long gun w/o her blowing some steam. Works every time for me... in other words, if I want another AR, it actually costs me an AR plus really nice shoes for her. I call it "spouse inflation" !
Have fun! I hear the spouse inflation..LOL. Good thing about mine though, is the fact she would be just as happy with a new fishing rod, camp stove/latern or hunting clothes as she would be with a purse or shoes. |
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Well, if you're buying it from your father-in-law, then $800 sounds like a deal. I wouldn't question my father-in-law's assessment then, unles your wife does. He'll probably throw in some extra's anyway, if not now, then in the long run. Looks like a sweet rifle. Not sure how a telestock fits on a 20". I had some 20" HBAR's with the solid A2 stocks but never tried them with a tele. It didn't seem it would balance right. That doesn't look like a standard gas block - more like a low-profile railed one with detachable BUIS - you mentioned that the front "sight is not permanently made on the rifle"... but where's the rear BUIS - well not a big deal...you can always add one. Well, as long as the upper and lower receivers are both Armalite, and you can get the original Armalite stock, you're GTG (in case you want to sell it as a "complete Armalite" in the future). Does it come with any mags? The pic shows what looks like a 10rd mag??? See if your father-in-law will throw in a couple 30rd mags, or better yet, PMags. The front site was added after my father-in-law got the rifle. As for the rear, they are on the carry handle that comes with the rifle and has elevation and windage adjustments on it. It, the carry handle, contains a wheel that turns either counter clock and clock wise to adjust the up and down, as well as left to right on the iron site. The rifle feels real comfortable, to me anyway, with the adjustable stock. I was popping tennis balls from 100 yds with it yesterday spitting out 69gr. Black Hills. Yes, it does have a 10 round mag in the picture, but I do have three 30 rounders with it. I called the original owner of the rifle and am picking up the stock Armalite stock tomorrow. I'm not up to speed on all the AR terminology as you mentioned standard gas block and more like a low profile railed with detachable BUIS. The top of the receiver has a detachable rail that the scope mounts on or you can mount the carry handle onto it. I'm going to call Armalite tomorrow and see if I can get the exact specs on the rifle. Thanks for your information and guidance on the rifle though. As for the wife...It's always better to ask for forgiveness than get permission. But I've been putting in 60+ hours a week for quite a while to save up for a couple different firearms, so the wife didn't say anything..LOL. Now all I have to get is a 23 Glock and an SPS Tactical 700 Remmy in .308 and I'm done for a while..LOL That's right - I forgot about the detachable carry handle with the rear sight on it. If its an Armalite carry handle too, then it adds value to the whole setup - it does, but I'm not sure by how much. All in all, for $800, for original upper, lower, buttstock, 200 or so rounds, with front BUIS and detachable carry handle/rear sight, I'd say its a really good deal. And a great rifle to start your AR experiences with. Play around with the "iron sights" first, like what you're already doing with those tennis balls at 100yds. Since you've got rails already, you are GTG on optics later on. I hear ya about the wifey and forgiveness. usually works every time, but it can get costly...you might have to buy her a nice handbag or shoes first before you can throw some more $$ at a Glock or another long gun w/o her blowing some steam. Works every time for me... in other words, if I want another AR, it actually costs me an AR plus really nice shoes for her. I call it "spouse inflation" !
Have fun! I hear the spouse inflation..LOL. Good thing about mine though, is the fact she would be just as happy with a new fishing rod, camp stove/latern or hunting clothes as she would be with a purse or shoes. |
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Quoted: I hear the spouse inflation..LOL. Good thing about mine though, is the fact she would be just as happy with a new fishing rod, camp stove/latern or hunting clothes as she would be with a purse or shoes. I wish my wife would be that way sometimes ! (And she's got 5 sisters plus a bunch of adult nieces that all "influence" her, if you know what I mean.) You are a VERY lucky man! Just treat her right is all you can do! |
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