AR Sponsor
Posted: 9/23/2010 11:50:45 AM EDT
| After doing some googles on triggers www.triggerwork.net keeps coming up as a real resonalble alternative to an expensive trigger. Anyone have any opinions. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
After doing some googles on triggers www.triggerwork.net keeps coming up as a real resonalble alternative to an expensive trigger. Anyone have any opinions. you get what you pay for. this...always Well I don't know about these guys, but I actually have a trigger he worked on and it is very good, better than some triggers that cost a lot more. I got goosebumps the first time I operated it. |
|
I have three of Bill's triggers, and I give them mixed reviews. Two are quite crisp, while the third has some creep. I am a little uneasy about their long-term prospects, particularly the Colt one that doesn't permit easy interchange of parts if it gives trouble.
I'm shopping for another trigger for the Colt, but I'll shoot the other two 'till they give trouble. BTW, Bill uses full power springs; he does change sear engagement and angle, leading to two caveats....perform a full function check/watch for doubling and other mischief, and keep an eye on the first warning for the long haul. Bill will stand behind his stuff, but I remain concerned about its longterm viability. Moon |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
After doing some googles on triggers www.triggerwork.net keeps coming up as a real resonalble alternative to an expensive trigger. Anyone have any opinions. you get what you pay for. this...always Well I don't know about these guys, but I actually have a trigger he worked on and it is very good, better than some triggers that cost a lot more. I got goosebumps the first time I operated it. Well, I actually have had triggers by him too, and none of them have worked right. You get what you pay for, and if you want a butchered FCG that only works in "in spec lowers" (even if that means 8 lowers that work with every other trigger ever tried in them) by all means enjoy your trigger. Hopefully it doesn't f-up on ya a few hundred rounds down the line and start going full auto on ya. Just sayin. |
|
I have 3 triggers worked on by Bill. Colt 6940 Ruger Mini 14 Ruger 10/22 The Colt is one of his 4 pound triggers. I have over 500 rounds through it. No misfires. No malfunctions. I decided to save time by buying his $ 85 package with a generic trigger, sear and springs rather than ship him the Colt trigger. It went in without a glitch and is a joy to shoot. The two Ruger trigger jobs I am happy with ( $ 35/each) and they deliver exactly what Bill descibes they will on his site. They are not as much of a day & night difference as my AR-15 ... but that wasn't in my expectations. Jcrowl is one of the touchstones around here. If an particular brand/style/mod of AR-15 is worth owning. He owns it but is amazingly objective across the spectrum of his respionses. There are "others" who have cited untrue claims about " ... one of Bill's triggers going full auto on some poor guy who got arrested by the BATF because of it." Jcrowl provided the correct information that disproved that claim about 4 months ago if I remember correctly. There have been cases of double fires that Bill has acknowledged and fixed. Trigger malfunctions have been documented with a wide variety of the "premier" AR-15's on the market. As in Bill's case, they represent a small percentage of the total delivered. The only differenence is Bill is easy to dump on for whatever reasons they do so. He runs a smalll business providing what I perceive as excellent value. Are there better triggers on the market? Absolutely but they will run you a lot more money. You get what you pay for runs both ways. If I spend $ 300 dollars for a top tier trigger and I am unhappy with it, I have "lost" more than if with Bill's trigger. My $ .02 Barliman |
| "You get what you pay for" has diminishing returns. So for $55 you will get a significantly better trigger back from Bill. For $300, you will get one that is better than that, but it will not be six times better, even though you are paying 6 times as much money. |
|
It depends on what your life is worth. Mine is worth 6 times more than a polished turd of a modified stock trigger. There is a fine diminishing line of return with parts like barrels and handguards, because those parts aren’t likely to fail in a way which will turn your carbine into a club.
The stock trigger is a turd, you can alter it in an attempt to make it something its was not designed to be, which without question has an effect on the durability and reliability. Or, you can buy a trigger that was designed from the ground up to feel better, and will last a lifetime of durable, reliable service. I’m baffled by the guys who spend over $1K on a gun, but cheap out on the fire control group, which is the most important part of the system. |
|
The military grade triggers many shoot may seem like excrement, but in reality, are plenty good enough for soldiers to hang their lives on. Like was said, there are diminishing returns.
There are two parts to a trigger pull - pressure, and travel. Military grade triggers run 6-8 pounds and up. New York City Glock triggers are set at 10 pounds. Massad Ayoob has won matches with a NY trigger in a Glock. Trigger pull weight is something you can get used to and shoot well with, lots of soldiers qualify expert with their issue weapons. The trigger weight isn't a major factor in 2 MOA shooting. Military weight triggers are designed for soldiers running across rough terrain with an adrenaline dump in their system and having to unfortunately "muzzle" their team mate in some activities. Team member coordination of movement, such as depressing the muzzle when reversing aim from right to left when walking in column, isn't something you immediately pick up. A reasonably heavy trigger minimizes negligent discharges that will injure or kill your buddy. It will help keep your hunting buddies safe in the field, too. Family members are shot every year hunting because the finger was on the trigger. Light pull target triggers should only be used by experienced and trained shooters, and they belong on the range. Not many like to hear that - but the ones who object do so because they think they are the exception. Travel is the key item - the more surface area the sear engagement traverses, the more imperfections it has to overcome. Reducing travel reduces creep, grittiness, and the overall trigger pull to hammer release time ( which is different than lock time.) Install a trigger adjustment screw, and you will get a better trigger. If it reduces creep and grittiness by eliminating 60% or more of the travel, it's a 60% better trigger. Trigger weight has nothing to do with that. With a decent quality LPK, an adjustable trigger screw, and some patience, you get a better trigger. It won't make you a better shooter unless you practice a lot, it won't improve the sight picture, it won't tighten up a military grade barrel or assembly job. If it's a 2 MOA shooter, it still will be. It cannot change the best minimal dispersion you can shoot from that sight and barrel set up. Expensive triggers are useless unless the barrel is a guaranteed 1/2 MOA shooter using precision ammo at long ranges with optics that can actually see that thru the lens. If it's a 16" carbine with red dot, don't bother unless it's a dedicated competition or range gun. It would be useless to put a carbon fiber and anodized aluminum billet gas pedal mechanism on the family wagon, it's wasted money to drop a $150 trigger in a milspec AR with chrome barrel. There will be plenty who disagree, but none of the makers publish a guaranteed or money back MOA improvement, do they? Shooters buy them for the same reason executives buy expensive ink pens, they don't write $150 better. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
LOL omg I had trigger work done I'm going to die. Seriously, I'm sure if I sold match triggers I'd say the same thing. So much fail in so few words.  What is fail is spreading FUD when you have no experience to base it on. What is fail is assuming that more $ = better; its not always the case. |
|
I totally understand where Steve is coming from and that's my belief as well. Bills triggers feel great, especially for the money. I just don't know the long term effects of polishing off of the case hardening and what it will do to the fire control group. I think Bill's triggers are great for plinking (if I didn't, I wouldn't be selling it) but I wouldn't be using it any of my personal defense weapons. But, that's just my opinion. I have no personal experience of how his triggers will last over a lifetime.
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
LOL omg I had trigger work done I'm going to die. Seriously, I'm sure if I sold match triggers I'd say the same thing. So much fail in so few words. What is fail is spreading FUD when you have no experience to base it on. What is fail is assuming that more $ = better; its not always the case. 1.) I have had 2 of his triggers. One didn't work at all, and his "fix" for it was worthless. The other works, but after a few thousand rounds I can see where the engagement surface is wearing. 2.) In this case you really do get what you pay for. |
|
Quoted:
I totally understand where Steve is coming from and that's my belief as well. Bills triggers feel great, especially for the money. I just don't know the long term effects of polishing off of the case hardening and what it will do to the fire control group. I think Bill's triggers are great for plinking (if I didn't, I wouldn't be selling it) but I wouldn't be using it any of my personal defense weapons. But, that's just my opinion. I have no personal experience of how his triggers will last over a lifetime. This is what I don't understand. I thought parts like FCG were heat treated where the whole part was heated and cooled in oil to make the whole part stronger through expansion and contraction. Why would filing make it weaker? Should treating it after be part of the process? Is any of that right? And BTW I spent $35 to get a working FCG "worked" on and had to spend another $35 ordering a FCG to replace the improved non-working FCG I got back. So after spending $70 + shipping I could have just spent $40 more and bought a 2 stage trigger and still had a GI trigger to fall back on. Or buy a set of stones or files that I would have only used once to fix something I paid someone else to do for me. To be honest I hope these threads get locked as soon as they are started. Maybe I will let this go someday. [/brainfart] Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
Quoted:
This is what I don't understand. I thought parts like FCG were heat treated where the whole part was heated and cooled in oil to make the whole part stronger through expansion and contraction. Why would filing make it weaker? Should treating it after be part of the process? Is any of that right? The parts aren't hardened all the way through, they are only hardened to a certain depth. Once you remove that layer of hardness, you are then dealing with the softer material. |
|
I had a Bill Springfield trigger i put into my Cav Arms lower. It was my "backup rifle". I brought it to a magpul class, and it started doubling. I gave it to my buddy to figure out, and back on his aluminum lower, it worked fine. These days i just run the Geiselle SSA on my two main rifles. Might as well get something bomb proof and not worry about it. IIRC, ADCO posted up something where Geiselle said their triggers were good for 80K+ pulls?
|
|
If one is having troubles with one of my triggers please contact me and I'll repair or replace the trigger set. I have 12000 trigger jobs performed, 6000+ of them are AR15's done in 13 years. Commercial AR15 receivers can have the trigger and hammer pin hole locations vary in comparison to my mill spec AR15 jig. I continually strive to update trigger work techniques to compensate for the variations. Some receivers are on the maximum tolerance values and a very small volume of triggers may have an issue. I can accept a lower receiver and perform trigger work on your lower. I am a FFL holder.
Trigger work involves applying a small weld on the back lower side of the trigger to reduce pretravel. I then optimize the trigger face angle, only .003" is removed, most name brand quality parts have a case hardening of .015". Plenty of hardness left, rub 2 metal surfaces together, even if hardened, some marring will occur. I can't tell you how many triggers come in bone dry, without a trace of grease or oil on the trigger face/hammer notch contact surfaces. I then tailor/stone the hammer to the desired pull weight. The disconnecter is adjusted to increase the dwell time of the disconnecter holding onto the hammer during reset. Trigger work performed is not the simple modify the hammer spring as some have mentioned. Most aftermarket triggers are great but expensive, I can work all standard single stage and 2 stage variants to your spec for < $60, priority mail of your items return postage is included in the price. Some on this board say get a $120 to $300 trigger for a 4lbs trigger is not very wise, contact me and I'll set you up for $39. I have worked AR triggers for Joe six pack, FBI, DEA,Sheriffs, AZ/TX Border agents, military snipers in Iraq/Afghanistan and other LEO organizations including officials at the NRA headquarters in Fairfax, VA. A Sr. Cadet at the UASF Academy combat shooting team reported to me that he has 12,000+ rounds thru his rifle that I worked without an issue. I worked most of the AR rifles for the Academy shooting team. I live about 8 miles from the Academy and my son is in his junior year there. Thanks, Bill www.triggerwork.net |
AR Sponsor