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Posted: 8/3/2010 3:38:23 PM EDT
| Hey guys, I have got a couple of AR's for now. I have a S&W, and a Bushmaster, both flat top 16" guns. I haven't been into the AR game for very long, just a year. Although I have always been a fan. I have owned high quality guns all of my life, and have shot, and hunted for 30 years as well. I do appreciate good gear, and will pay for quality. That said, I am looking at the Knights Arms, SR15. I haven't seen one in person, but they look really sharp, and have heard a litle bit about them. Is it really a high quality rifle? Is it better than what I have now in terms of fit, finish, performance? Thanks in advance for the replys. 9080 Out. |
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I've owned an SR-15E3 for about a year now, so here's my $0.02.
First and foremost, I think the SR-15 is the absolute best lower on the market. For me, nothing beats the native ambi-controls, especially the ambi-bolt release. The complete rifle is very light –– feels much lighter and better balanced than any other AR I own or have handled. The sights that come with the upper are outstanding too. The front sight, which folds down into the rail, and the 600 m rear sight are great. Negatives: (1) The finish on my SR-15 is average at best. The parkerizing on the bolt, hammer and changing handle latch is really uneven and crappy, considering the price tag. I own a Rock River and a Colt, which have perfect finish jobs, so that's the comparison I am making. (2) The built-in QD mount on the sides of the rear of the lower are marketed as quality design enhancement. However, in practice I find that the location of these mounts is poor, as the sling gets in the way of the operation of the safety selector. I had to add a mount in the more traditional location under the buffer tube. (3) I don't love the LMT buttstock, which is a little bulky. I prefer a slimmer profile model, such as the Magpul CTR, for example. Make sure you like the buttstock, because you're definitely paying for it if you buy the rifle. (4) I don't like having the E3 bolt. Admittedly, I don't run my gun like some other people who are firing full auto or putting thousands of rounds through it each month, so any benefit of the enhanced design is lost on me. What bothers me is having an upper where I must use the proprietary E3 bolt, and spares aren't cheap. I prefer having AR's with standard interchangeable cheaper bolts. (5) I don't like that currently I can't buy a factory SBR upper from KAC, and even if I could, I would prefer an upper with a standard bolt. That being said, I don't regret my purchase at all. The SR-15 functions superbly, and the ergonomics of the lower is top notch. In the end, I ditched the upper, SBR'ed the lower, and threw on a BCM short barreled upper. That's my perfect combo. One thing I would add, since you already have some 16" ARs, you should consider jumping through some hoops to get an SBR. Hope this gives you some insight. |
| They look to be about $2200.00, give or take. Can I build a better rifle for that money???? So, the lower is still compatible with other uppers? If that is the case, and the lower is where the juice is at, should I just get it, and build? What is the deal with the E3 bolt? Thanks again guys for the input. 9080 Out |
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Quoted: ** IIRC, Eugene Stoner did work for KAC before he passed and their last project together was the SR25 (.308) I own (2) E3's and quite a few other rifles that I feel are quality. I have to say that I am pretty impressed with the rifle as a whole and they have served me very well thus far. Will the average gun owner appreciate all the R&D and testing that has been done prior to releasing this type of rifle to the civilian market? Probably not IMO. I own rifles from LMT, Noveske, LWRC, Armalite, and a few Frankebuilds using various manufacturers and I personally feel that my KAC's are right there at the top of the heap. With all the intergrated features and components it comes with I feel it's worth the price tag it usually sells at but, that's just my OPINION. The KAC is even lighter than some of my SBR's and it's by far my favorite and YMMV. |
| I am thinking of selling my KAC SR-15 match rifle. I did the one shot then clean barrel breaking for several rounds, mounted a scope on it, sighted it in and shot a 3/4 inch group at 100 yards (not bad for my old eyes but I'm sure it will do better). Then I cleaned it up and put it in the safe. It's been in there for a couple of years now. I have the box and all the goodies. You can email me if interested. lcarver at peak.org |
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Having made the aquaintence of some of the Knights "assembly line dudes", I'll build my own, thank you very much...... I'm sure you build a fine rifle. These days, it's easier than ever. But KAC is a company who offers a lot more than a rifle pieced together by whichever "assembly line dudes" you may have run into. There's lots of excellent rifles on the market right now. I can't remember ever having such a wide variety of great guns to choose from. KAC's E3, in my view, is easily among the top two or three guns a person can purchase right now. Guns with as much hardware on them (iron sights, sling swivels, free float rail, ambi controls) don't come close to being as light as the E3. Guns which are as light as the E3 typically have more muzzle rise when shot. The fact that they have such a lightweight, well balanced gun which shoots as smoothly as it does is not a coincidence. The price of the gun is tough to overlook as well. I can't think of another gun you can buy or build for the same price that is close to the E3s quality and with as many features. I do agree that I do not like where the single point sling QD points are on the rear of the receiver. I just dont use them. |
Get the SR-15!! Like others have said, you really do get a great bargain for the price tag (all the features separately would be a lot more expensive). Also, Knights has good customer serivce and the rifle is bad ass!
I also do agree about the bolt though... I like that my SBR has a regular bolt. |
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They look to be about $2200.00, give or take. Can I build a better rifle for that money???? So, the lower is still compatible with other uppers? If that is the case, and the lower is where the juice is at, should I just get it, and build? What is the deal with the E3 bolt? Thanks again guys for the input. 9080 Out "Better" is very subjective. If you are talking about accuracy, you absolutely can build (or buy) a more accurate rifle for less. If you are talking about durability and robustness, I also think you can buy something just as good for less. If you are talking about the best in terms of ergonomics and balance, uniqueness, weight, attention to detail, etc. –– then it's probably going to be tough for you to beat the SR-15. But you really need to think about what you are looking to get out of your next rifle. Generally speaking, any 5.56 upper will be compatible with any other manufacturer's 5.56 lower. However, the fit might be tight or loose. I'm not aware of anyone having problems mating a KAC lower with another manufacturer's upper. I certainly don't have any problem mating it with any of my other three manufacturer uppers. As for the E3 bolt, you should go to their website for some basic info. But the main point is that the bolt was redesigned by KAC. For better or for worse, the result is that you MUST use the proprietary KAC E3 bolt with a KAC barrel extension. I like to keep a spare bolt and firing pin in my MIAD grip, but you have to spend a significant amount more for an E3 spare vs. a standard bolt, and it sucks having to stock a non-standard part. As I stated earlier, I don't think you can beat the SR-15 E3 lower, and until something changes, all of my rifles will have a KAC lower. The upper will depend on my needs in that rifle. |
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They look to be about $2200.00, give or take. Can I build a better rifle for that money???? So, the lower is still compatible with other uppers? If that is the case, and the lower is where the juice is at, should I just get it, and build? What is the deal with the E3 bolt? Thanks again guys for the input. 9080 Out You can find them for under 1800. I have owned about every kind of AR, I have sold all the non-NFA ARs except for my two SR15E3s. The low recoil, light weight, and just overall smooth functioning of the E3 make it by far my favorite rifle. 
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I would consider the SR15 lower which you can buy and something like the LMT MRP upper in piston or DI.
That's a wicked combo. The heart of the SR is the lower and LMT or even someone like Bravo make a spectacular upper, BCGs included. You can buy KAC 600M BUIS anyway. |
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I would consider the SR15 lower which you can buy and something like the LMT MRP upper in piston or DI. That's a wicked combo. The heart of the SR is the lower and LMT or even someone like Bravo make a spectacular upper, BCGs included. You can buy KAC 600M BUIS anyway. Not really, the heart of the E3 is the better bolt, longer gas tube, and overall light weight, all of which are provided by the upper. The lower is nice, especially for lefties like me, but the upper is what makes the rifle shine. |
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I would consider the SR15 lower which you can buy and something like the LMT MRP upper in piston or DI. That's a wicked combo. The heart of the SR is the lower and LMT or even someone like Bravo make a spectacular upper, BCGs included. You can buy KAC 600M BUIS anyway. Not really, the heart of the E3 is the better bolt, longer gas tube, and overall light weight, all of which are provided by the upper. The lower is nice, especially for lefties like me, but the upper is what makes the rifle shine. +1 Regarding bolt issues KevinB has stated that a normal bolt will function in the rifle under EMERGENCY situations and cycle the rifle but it is obviously not recommended for normal use. Thread needs more SR15 prOn 
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I would consider the SR15 lower which you can buy and something like the LMT MRP upper in piston or DI. That's a wicked combo. The heart of the SR is the lower and LMT or even someone like Bravo make a spectacular upper, BCGs included. You can buy KAC 600M BUIS anyway. Not really, the heart of the E3 is the better bolt, longer gas tube, and overall light weight, all of which are provided by the upper. The lower is nice, especially for lefties like me, but the upper is what makes the rifle shine. Rusted Ace & new-arguy are right on the money here. The SR15 E3 is really a system, not just a bunch of cobbled together parts. People get all excited about the proprietary bolt for no reason, IMHO. KAC has stated that they would expect a minimum of 20K rounds out of their bolts and there are some in service with much more than that through them. The E3 delivers great handling, soft shooting and an extended lifespan over a run-of-the-mill AR. They would easily be among the top two or three AR's available in the market today. BCM's new 14.5" middie may be on that list as well. Is the E3 worth it? It is well worth the msrp, when you consider how the rifle is equipped. The fact that you can routinely find it for $1800, maybe less, makes it a steal. If you want a KISS rifle and don't want the URX rail, SOPMOD, excellent 2-stage KAC trigger, E3 features, etc., then it might not be for you. However, if you're trying to "build better for less", you're going to have a hard time accomplishing that. Especially when you consider that the E3 comes out of the box with all these features and very few, if any other factory rifles come as well equipped as the SR. Here's mine: 
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Where are people finding these for under $1800?!??! I'm not doubting, I just really want to pick one up except all the one's I've seen are going for over $2k. I would pick it up at $1800 in a heartbeat. I paid $1820 for mine NIB off of gunbroker which is nice because you pay shipping, but no tax so it is much less than buying locally. 
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Where are people finding these for under $1800?!??! I'm not doubting, I just really want to pick one up except all the one's I've seen are going for over $2k. I would pick it up at $1800 in a heartbeat. SGC just sold several at $1766. Unfortunately, they are sold out now. If you keep an eye out you'll find one eventually. Street price seems to be trending below the $2K mark at the moment. |
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If I were to spend that kind of cash on a KAC, I'd be looking at the 308 vs the 556. Just saying...  What is it that you're "just sayin" 
You wont find a NIB KAC 308 for $2000, or really anywhere near that. All older model I have seen are over $3000. The EM Rfile in 308 is close to $4000, the EM Carbine is nearer to $5000. |
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I would consider the SR15 lower which you can buy and something like the LMT MRP upper in piston or DI. That's a wicked combo. The heart of the SR is the lower and LMT or even someone like Bravo make a spectacular upper, BCGs included. You can buy KAC 600M BUIS anyway. I would agree....others do not. Many SR15 uppers have problems from the get go....and eventually get straighten out, but that must be said. |
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I would consider the SR15 lower which you can buy and something like the LMT MRP upper in piston or DI. That's a wicked combo. The heart of the SR is the lower and LMT or even someone like Bravo make a spectacular upper, BCGs included. You can buy KAC 600M BUIS anyway. I would agree....others do not. Many SR15 uppers have problems from the get go....and eventually get straighten out, but that must be said. Many or some? What percentage would qualify "many?" |
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I would consider the SR15 lower which you can buy and something like the LMT MRP upper in piston or DI. That's a wicked combo. The heart of the SR is the lower and LMT or even someone like Bravo make a spectacular upper, BCGs included. You can buy KAC 600M BUIS anyway. I would agree....others do not. Many SR15 uppers have problems from the get go....and eventually get straighten out, but that must be said. Are you referring to the earlier ones that were less gassed and more prone to choking on .223 pressure ammunition? As for the overall price - if you don't have a use for the ambidextrous function, and aren't planning on running over 10,000 rounds through the upper in the life of the gun, an E3 is a stupid purchase. You absolutely can build a BCM, Colt, LMT, Noveske, DanielDefense for less and make it a shade lighter. With some buffer shuffling, you can make it shoot with a similar recoil impulse, and you can add a handguard that duplicates any needed capabilities of the URX-II. I admit that I was expecting a better looking finish on mine, and that I'd be happier if they at least threw in an MOE pistol grip for the price, but look at the market for them: You'd need to put a ton of rounds through it to appreciate the E3 bolt system - most civilian owned rifles aren't even going to see this point, so that doesn't matter. At this point, you're not going to care about the finish of the rifle. With the price where it is, I can quite happily sell the LMT SOPMOD stock, replace it with a CTR, MIAD/MOE, and add an MVG to the front and stay on par for price - which is what I did, with enough left over for a pair of rattle cans. It's expensive, but for anybody planning on putting that many rounds down the pipe, the cost of ammunition is going to exceed the cost of the rifle in original form: so the $200 price difference to any comparable (but still lacking some features) rifles disappears in the net cost of the weapon system, even at the 5000rds of commercial 5.56 ammunition (where the ammunition expended is about the same as the original rifle cost) |
I agree with what others have said above about the e3 being a great bargain (at 1800). I haven't been able to shoot one yet but, I did get to fondle one at the gun store and the way it felt in my hands was great! I hope to be able to add one to my collection someday 
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I would consider the SR15 lower which you can buy and something like the LMT MRP upper in piston or DI. That's a wicked combo. The heart of the SR is the lower and LMT or even someone like Bravo make a spectacular upper, BCGs included. You can buy KAC 600M BUIS anyway. I would agree....others do not. Many SR15 uppers have problems from the get go....and eventually get straighten out, but that must be said. Many or some? What percentage would qualify "many?" Lol.....how does "some" work for you? |
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I would consider the SR15 lower which you can buy and something like the LMT MRP upper in piston or DI. That's a wicked combo. The heart of the SR is the lower and LMT or even someone like Bravo make a spectacular upper, BCGs included. You can buy KAC 600M BUIS anyway. I would agree....others do not. Many SR15 uppers have problems from the get go....and eventually get straighten out, but that must be said. I would tend to disagree. Not for the purpose of being contrary, but it is not the lower that makes the SR15 what it is. It is the complete rifle. Those who have shot one know this. The rifle is perfectly tuned and balanced as a whole. I have not shot a smoother, softer recoiling AR. Pair it with a triple tap and you may have perfection. As for the issues with ammo, I have read about them but have not experienced any. I have shot 3 of the earliest E3s and ran just about every type of ammo through it and had no issues. And we ran these guns pretty hard. Many were the same ammo people had claimed to have issues with. I think "few" would be more approriate and Knights addressed all of the issues immediately and resolved them. I look forward to buying another E3. If you have the money, go for it. |
I agree with what Donnie said, that being said I did have some problems with ammo (Lake City even) but in my case it was because of VERY cold temperatures (0 degrees F +/-) after one of the "newer" uppers (Knight has great CS but it took a LONG time  ) she runs great. As an indication of how long they had it the weather went from the 0 degrees +/- to 90 degrees when I got it back, so I have no idea whether it will run when its cold out or not. It sure is a sweet shooting rifle with the TTB and eveything paired together. If you have not shot an SR-15 with the TTB, find someone that has one and beg and plead to shoot it. They really are as light recoiling and smooth as everyone says.
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