AR Sponsor
Posted: 6/6/2010 5:54:05 PM EDT
|
Ok, here is the background:
Bought this upper from a manufacturer that most people on this forum were raving about. Once I got it home, it sat in the safe for a few months until I found the money for a lower. Once the two were mated, I put an ambi charging handle on and noticed it had an adverse affect on the upper; rounds would get hung up on the extension / the charging handle would freeze back and would not move without leaning on the thing / rounds would get stuck in the chamber. The ch vendor sent me a new unit which did nothing to alleviate the problems. The manufacturer of the charging handle actually talked to me and ensured me that it was not an issue with the charging handle. At this point the upper would still have issues with the standard ch, so i sent it back to the manufacturer to have a look. They told me that all the problems stemmed from the aftermarket ambi charging handle, and it was functioning fine with their charging handle. Now, with the original charging handle, at least 1/3 of all rounds are very difficult to get out of the chamber and it will fail to feed at least one round of a magazine. I have tried using 3 different p mags along with hornady, prvi, and federal ammo; all with similar results. I made this quick video with my cell phone to see what everyone thinks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVj1L70w6yY So the question becomes, am I being unrealistic and expecting more out of the upper/platform than I should? This is my first ar-15, and i have only had limited experience with them in the past. My problem is, sure it will FIRE just fine, but i can not manipulate it worth sh!t without having to support the stock on my ribs and rip into the handle if i need to clear a round. I have no confidence in the thing and will not take it to the range with my friends for fear of their mockery when their dpms and bushmasters outperform a gun that cost double what they paid. One reason i got this platform was due to the ability to add/change parts, and I was told essentially to 'run this charging handle'. Any advise would be much appreciated |
|
Maybe the bolt is sticking in the carrier or the barrel extension and bolt are fighting each other because if a bur on the locking lugs ?
Maybe the buffer or spring is sticking in the buffer tube ? Maybe a bad chamber like under size or head spacing problem, hope not. 
. after watching your vid I'm thinking your bolt is not unlocking because of the ammo sticking in the chamber, really tight chamber, head spacing is off, locking lugs have a burrrrr. If you can cycle the gun without ammo and it doesn't stick then the charge handle is fine. If it only sticks when there is a round in the chamber then your chamber, barrel or bolt has a problem as I doubt all those brands of ammo would be sticking. |
|
There is something wrong there. Clean the chamber really good with solvent and a chamber brush, then wipe out all the solvent and oil it. Then wipe out the oil. It should NOT be wet at all, the oil will soak into the metal. If there is any excess oil in there it will lock up like that too. If that isn't the problem, you need to get the chamber checked out.
Is there any marks on the rounds after you get them un-stuck? |
| I am currently having the same problem with my 10.5" SBR. I took it to the range and fired around 100 rounds with no problems at all. When I manually try to extract a chambered round I sometimes have trouble pulling the charging handle back, I'm using a BCM Gunfighter Mod 4. I was told that "the bolt is still mating with the barrel extension, so give it another few hundred round to break in and the hard manual live round ejecting should not be a problem anymore." Anyone know if this is true? |
|
Let me try to answer some of the questions/add some details:
-it will cycle smooth with no ammo and the original ch, gets a bit difficult to lock the ch when the bolt is locked back. -it will cycle with a bit of resistance with the aftermarket ch and will freeze up as it gets to the rear. if i lock the bolt back with the aftermarket ch, it is very difficult to push the ch forward(bolt still locked) -neither ch creates difficulty unlocking with no ammo -cleaned the chamber real well on several occasions, lubed the entire thing through several different trials from barely wetted to fully soaked(chamber area dry and wet) -ratfink57: the rounds come out all scratched up, mainly on the projectile and sometimes on the brass itself. i tried to photograph them, but can't come out with any good pictures -CTbuilder1: i wanted to get a good functional upper and start taking classes... the problem is that i feel it would be detrimental to show up to a class with a weapon that i could clear without waiving the thing around as i try to get enough force to extract a round Thanks for the initial thoughts. I think the manufacturer is pretty set on the idea that it is a good upper, so it may be time to just swallow my loss and save up for a knights or larue upper. Note: sorry if my nomenclature is off, i am still new to the platform Edit: heem1911 don't you find it a bit irritating to spend all this money, and in your case time and effort to get a stamp, to have to put hundreds of rounds through the thing to get it to where you can manipulate the system in a safe matter, where i know guys who go to academy and buy a bushmaster for $1k and can play right away? |
|
sorry 87. the ammo was mixed between prvi and hornady 223 and federal 556. i have not shot it yet but the manufacturer has when i purchased it and when they took it back to check if i had a valid complaint. the reason i did not shoot it is that i thought i could get my money back / switch the thing out if it was still unused. i just got it back a second time this week.
Before it comes up this IS a 556 upper |
|
This is a piston/op-rod upper, right?
The charging handle probably has nothing to do with it if you only encounter problems pulling back the charging handle when there's a round in the chamber. Normally this is due to improperly resized cases, but that is highly unlikely with a variety of factory ammo. I am not familiar enough with the AA system to diagnose problems over the internet. In my opinion, conversions only introduce more complexity and offer additional chances for failure. As I see it, your options are a) shoot it for a while and see if this might be an issue solved by break in, or b) sell the upper with full disclosure. IMHO, you really have nothing to lose by shooting it, because the specter of it possibly being a crap sandwich hanging over the sale would limit the number of folks who would be interested, probably even more than if it had 200-300 rounds through it. |
|
Some folks have had some gripes about their's, but mine has been 100% win.
DSA ETA: Sorry, I had one too many "Reply" tabs open. This was meant for a totally different thread. 
|
|
Quoted:
Let me try to answer some of the questions/add some details: -it will cycle smooth with no ammo and the original ch, gets a bit difficult to lock the ch when the bolt is locked back. -it will cycle with a bit of resistance with the aftermarket ch and will freeze up as it gets to the rear. if i lock the bolt back with the aftermarket ch, it is very difficult to push the ch forward(bolt still locked) -neither ch creates difficulty unlocking with no ammo -cleaned the chamber real well on several occasions, lubed the entire thing through several different trials from barely wetted to fully soaked(chamber area dry and wet) -ratfink57: the rounds come out all scratched up, mainly on the projectile and sometimes on the brass itself. i tried to photograph them, but can't come out with any good pictures -CTbuilder1: i wanted to get a good functional upper and start taking classes... the problem is that i feel it would be detrimental to show up to a class with a weapon that i could clear without waiving the thing around as i try to get enough force to extract a round Thanks for the initial thoughts. I think the manufacturer is pretty set on the idea that it is a good upper, so it may be time to just swallow my loss and save up for a knights or larue upper. Note: sorry if my nomenclature is off, i am still new to the platform Edit: heem1911 don't you find it a bit irritating to spend all this money, and in your case time and effort to get a stamp, to have to put hundreds of rounds through the thing to get it to where you can manipulate the system in a safe matter, where i know guys who go to academy and buy a bushmaster for $1k and can play right away? That could be BAD if those scratches are from the bullet hitting the rifling when a round is chambered. It could cause high pressure spikes and you don't want that. Make sure that is not the case before you fire it. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Let me try to answer some of the questions/add some details: -it will cycle smooth with no ammo and the original ch, gets a bit difficult to lock the ch when the bolt is locked back. -it will cycle with a bit of resistance with the aftermarket ch and will freeze up as it gets to the rear. if i lock the bolt back with the aftermarket ch, it is very difficult to push the ch forward(bolt still locked) -neither ch creates difficulty unlocking with no ammo -cleaned the chamber real well on several occasions, lubed the entire thing through several different trials from barely wetted to fully soaked(chamber area dry and wet) -ratfink57: the rounds come out all scratched up, mainly on the projectile and sometimes on the brass itself. i tried to photograph them, but can't come out with any good pictures -CTbuilder1: i wanted to get a good functional upper and start taking classes... the problem is that i feel it would be detrimental to show up to a class with a weapon that i could clear without waiving the thing around as i try to get enough force to extract a round Thanks for the initial thoughts. I think the manufacturer is pretty set on the idea that it is a good upper, so it may be time to just swallow my loss and save up for a knights or larue upper. Note: sorry if my nomenclature is off, i am still new to the platform Edit: heem1911 don't you find it a bit irritating to spend all this money, and in your case time and effort to get a stamp, to have to put hundreds of rounds through the thing to get it to where you can manipulate the system in a safe matter, where i know guys who go to academy and buy a bushmaster for $1k and can play right away? That could be BAD if those scratches are from the bullet hitting the rifling when a round is chambered. It could cause high pressure spikes and you don't want that. Make sure that is not the case before you fire it. I'm willing to bet that the scratches are normal - the projectiles are being gouged by the back side of the receiver extension. Let's not panic the poor guy. |
|
Quoted:
Let me try to answer some of the questions/add some details: -it will cycle smooth with no ammo and the original ch, gets a bit difficult to lock the ch when the bolt is locked back. -it will cycle with a bit of resistance with the aftermarket ch and will freeze up as it gets to the rear. if i lock the bolt back with the aftermarket ch, it is very difficult to push the ch forward(bolt still locked) -neither ch creates difficulty unlocking with no ammo -cleaned the chamber real well on several occasions, lubed the entire thing through several different trials from barely wetted to fully soaked(chamber area dry and wet) -ratfink57: the rounds come out all scratched up, mainly on the projectile and sometimes on the brass itself. i tried to photograph them, but can't come out with any good pictures -CTbuilder1: i wanted to get a good functional upper and start taking classes... the problem is that i feel it would be detrimental to show up to a class with a weapon that i could clear without waiving the thing around as i try to get enough force to extract a round Thanks for the initial thoughts. I think the manufacturer is pretty set on the idea that it is a good upper, so it may be time to just swallow my loss and save up for a knights or larue upper. Note: sorry if my nomenclature is off, i am still new to the platform Edit: heem1911 don't you find it a bit irritating to spend all this money, and in your case time and effort to get a stamp, to have to put hundreds of rounds through the thing to get it to where you can manipulate the system in a safe matter, where i know guys who go to academy and buy a bushmaster for $1k and can play right away? No, fail. You seem like a pretty sharp kid, diligent enough to YouTube your problem as opposed to just trying to describe it, which is a first. Don't shoot it to 'break it in', blah, blah, turning it into a used gun as you, the customer, shouldn't have to. Forward the clip back to the manufacture so they can witness it first hand and tell them you want to swap it for another. Or better yet a refund. You're not satisfied. Do not not eat this and try and sell it as a loss as a mystery 'crap sandwhich'. Let the manufacturer eat it. |
| Yeah, I saw the video and that doesn't look right to me. It's hard to tell without putting my hands on it, but it sure looks like the rounds are getting stuck in the chamber for one reason or another. If you bought the complete upper, I wouldn't monkey around with it. You shouldn't have to. An AR that's built right will run slicker than snot. I've had new builds that were a bit tight, but nothing like that. |
|
I've never done what your doing hand cycling ammo with a new ar (and i have more than a few) because hand cycling is known to not be the best test for feeding. But that does look funky if your applying anywhere near the force it appears in the video. Still if it's made a trip to the manufacture and they say it's gtg i'd shoot the thing and see how it runs and functions after that...... The fact you say people rave about them on here has me wondering who it is because "the you can only use their charging handle" is a bunch of shit unless you have one fubard aftermarket charging handle or its some funky piston job thing. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Let me try to answer some of the questions/add some details: -it will cycle smooth with no ammo and the original ch, gets a bit difficult to lock the ch when the bolt is locked back. -it will cycle with a bit of resistance with the aftermarket ch and will freeze up as it gets to the rear. if i lock the bolt back with the aftermarket ch, it is very difficult to push the ch forward(bolt still locked) -neither ch creates difficulty unlocking with no ammo -cleaned the chamber real well on several occasions, lubed the entire thing through several different trials from barely wetted to fully soaked(chamber area dry and wet) -ratfink57: the rounds come out all scratched up, mainly on the projectile and sometimes on the brass itself. i tried to photograph them, but can't come out with any good pictures -CTbuilder1: i wanted to get a good functional upper and start taking classes... the problem is that i feel it would be detrimental to show up to a class with a weapon that i could clear without waiving the thing around as i try to get enough force to extract a round Thanks for the initial thoughts. I think the manufacturer is pretty set on the idea that it is a good upper, so it may be time to just swallow my loss and save up for a knights or larue upper. Note: sorry if my nomenclature is off, i am still new to the platform Edit: heem1911 don't you find it a bit irritating to spend all this money, and in your case time and effort to get a stamp, to have to put hundreds of rounds through the thing to get it to where you can manipulate the system in a safe matter, where i know guys who go to academy and buy a bushmaster for $1k and can play right away? That could be BAD if those scratches are from the bullet hitting the rifling when a round is chambered. It could cause high pressure spikes and you don't want that. Make sure that is not the case before you fire it. I'm willing to bet that the scratches are normal - the projectiles are being gouged by the back side of the receiver extension. Let's not panic the poor guy. It could be minor scratches from the extension but, that wouldn't make it stick. As hard as it is stuck in his video is NOT normal with even a new rifle. Do us all a favor and tell us who built that POS, then sent it back to you and said "it's fine". |
|
ratfink57, I don't want to give out their name for 2 reasons;
1. from this forum it seems that most people find their products to be very good(so mine is a one off deal), and 2. they have at least taken the time to look at it, even if I don't agree with their conclusion I will add to this thread once I hear back from them. And again, thanks all for pitching in with your thoughts. |
|
Quoted:
Could be shaving some of the the jacket off the bullets.I have had problems with soft point ammo shaving off and makeing it hard to eject an unfired round. Mine is making a triangle pattern on the jacket. It is the same pattern on every bullet. I called the barrel manufacturer and they said to just scrub it with a chamber brush and shoot it or send it in they'll take a look at it and replace it if necessary. I took a picture of the marking, you can see it a little on the one on the right. 
|
|
I will try to take a picture of some of the scratches on mine, hopefully later today.
I did send lengthy emails out to the ceo and customer service explaining that i just wanted to be done with this so i could move on and go with another manufacturer. I will update this thread with any further developments. |
AR Sponsor