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Posted: 4/9/2010 8:18:58 PM EDT
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Well I have this Bushmaster that I dont really like. I have been pondering selling it to fund a DDm4.
Then I thought I may just put a different upper on it. Any big differnce in parts/quality of an upper tier manufacturer's lower over the BM lower and lpk? |
| If I were you, I'd just go with the upper. spikes has them cheap now and a lower really is just a lower. just be sure that the castle nut is staked and you should be GTG. the koolaid is strong here. be careful to not get sucked in. Hell, I've thought about putting a olympic lower on a rifle just on the grounds of how much I like the roll mark. bushmaster lower internals are GTG |
Since it's a Bushmaster, you can sell it for twice as much as it's really worth,  just kidding, an ACR joke. .
there shouldn't be much difference but the one thing that always bother me is loose upper and lower fit. If you have tight fit now, then I'd more inclined to swap out the barrel rather than swap the upper. You never know if the new upper will mate with lower as tightly as before. |
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The best LPKs are Colt, LMT, and BCM but you have to buy the lower to get the BCM LPK. Stag and CMT are also good. Stay away from DPMS, RRA, and other makers in that tier. Daniel Defense should be ok but are still pretty new to have the final word on them yet. Nothing wrong with DPMS lower parts other than a few tight trigger guard pins. Bushmaster makes a great product, it's just that a lot of people here are following a trend. RRA makes a good product as well. Just my opinion having put together at least 8-10 lowers or so in the last ten years. |
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Since it's a Bushmaster, you can sell it for twice as much as it's really worth, just kidding, an ACR joke..
there shouldn't be much difference but the one thing that always bother me is loose upper and lower fit. If you have tight fit now, then I'd more inclined to swap out the barrel rather than swap the upper. You never know if the new upper will mate with lower as tightly as before. yup, I'm thinking 1/7 barrel and BCM bolt carrier group. |
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The best LPKs are Colt, LMT, and BCM but you have to buy the lower to get the BCM LPK. Stag and CMT are also good. Stay away from DPMS, RRA, and other makers in that tier. Daniel Defense should be ok but are still pretty new to have the final word on them yet. Nothing wrong with DPMS lower parts other than a few tight trigger guard pins. Bushmaster makes a great product, it's just that a lot of people here are following a trend. RRA makes a good product as well. Just my opinion having put together at least 8-10 lowers or so in the last ten years. This. not a damn thing wrong with bushmaster lower parts quality. People will tell you that unless you have XXXXX this or XXXXX that, your rifle wil only fire every other round and your wife will leave you. the FCG of a rifle does not matter for accuracy and reliability near as much as good mags, a good barrel and a good bcg assembly, in that order. I'd like to second the reccomendation on just swapping barrels. keep the upper and lower. just stick a new barrel on that guy  9/10 times a bushmaster BCG is staked perfectly and of good quality. A bolt change might not be a bad idea though.
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Since it's a Bushmaster, you can sell it for twice as much as it's really worth, . Odd that you mention that about price. A local PD here was recently absorbed into the SO. A fair portion of the PD folks had purchased RRA guns. Now the SO only allows Colts and Bushmasters. As a service to fellow man, I was researching what it would cost to swap lowers for all these fine folks. Prices varied from $169 to $269 for a stripped Bushy lower. Is that for real? My agency has approved Colt, Bushy, RRA, Stag and DPMS. Any build that I may carry at work now gets the DPMS lowers, buy them local for $110. |
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The best LPKs are Colt, LMT, and BCM but you have to buy the lower to get the BCM LPK. Stag and CMT are also good. Stay away from DPMS, RRA, and other makers in that tier. Daniel Defense should be ok but are still pretty new to have the final word on them yet. Nothing wrong with DPMS lower parts other than a few tight trigger guard pins. Bushmaster makes a great product, it's just that a lot of people here are following a trend. RRA makes a good product as well. Just my opinion having put together at least 8-10 lowers or so in the last ten years. This. not a damn thing wrong with bushmaster lower parts quality. People will tell you that unless you have XXXXX this or XXXXX that, your rifle will only fire every other round and your wife will leave you. the FCG of a rifle does not matter for accuracy and reliability near as much as good mags, a good barrel and a good bcg assembly, in that order. I'd like to second the recommendation on just swapping barrels. keep the upper and lower. just stick a new barrel on that guy 9/10 times a bushmaster BCG is staked perfectly and of good quality. A bolt change might not be a bad idea though.You know there was a time on these boards when Bushmaster was considered "top tier" by the masses. There is nothing wrong with your Bushmaster lower, I have 3 that are over 6 yrs old with tens of thousands rounds through one and thousands of rounds through the others. Never once had a catastrophic failure that resulted in my weapon blowing up or what so ever, the carrier keys on both bushmasters are staked as good as my BCM bolt carrier. I have fired everything from Wolf to SSA and Hornady through them with never more than a failure due to shitty mags. Spend your money on ammo, mags, and either an EOTech or Aimpoint, or plain irons. The internals of your lower are just fine. Add an aftermarket two stage if you need to. A RRA 2 stage will work just fine, granted it doesn't carry a fancy name, still fires every time you pull the trigger. I have installed over 10 RRA lower parts kits and they work just as well as the next brand. Throw a LPK from each brand into a bag, shake them up and 9/10 people here that say "buy a XXX, the others are crap" couldn't tell the difference between them anyways. Enjoy your rifle. |
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Quoted: The best LPKs are Colt, LMT, and BCM but you have to buy the lower to get the BCM LPK. Stag and CMT are also good. Stay away from DPMS, RRA, and other makers in that tier. Daniel Defense should be ok but are still pretty new to have the final word on them yet. What parts do you think are different in colt, lmt or bcm lower parts kits? |
| I read a lot on here about the quality of the staking on a key. I never really thought that much of it actually. Maybe its because I have unlimited parts supply but I normally just drop some red loctite on the screws and then stake them whever I need to replace a M4 carrier key. If that for some reason ever needs replacing it just gets a new carrier. Is there really that many carrier key screws coming loose out there? |
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I have owned (or do own) Colts, Bushmasters, BCM, DPMS, RR, Spikes and others and have fired 100k+ 5.56 stuff with absolutely no failures that shut down any of my rifles. My goto rifle is still a Bushmaster, altho my BCM and soon another Spikes will share time. I have never seen a Bushmaster bolt break nor carrier key fail yet. Bushmaster gets the vast majority of their rifles done right.
I do not know what the failure rate is for BM, nor Colt, nor BCM but I bet the % is not that different. As far as the 1in9 barrels and 1in7 barrels, mine all shoot the bulk of my ammo just the same. Can I shoot 75 gr stuff in my Bushmaster? Yep, and it does quite well. AND, I am quite fond of Rock River LPKs. That does not detract from Colt in any way. Have a true reason not to like Bushmaster? Most people like the other koolaid flavors, but is nothing wrong with Bushmaster outside of pricing. But that is their choice and they are doing pretty well. There is room in the crowd for all the gun makers, we all benefit from their involvement. Bushmaster has been a friend to our crowd for many years and I am proud to own them and shoot the crap outa mine. Not many failures with Bushmaster, but a few. Colt has failures also, anything mechanical will have failures. For something different, order a Spikes LE M4 (or middy) top end package. For around $500 you'll get a great Spikes upper with 1in7 and a BCG, buffer and CH. If you plan to sell your BM upper, you will not be out much money. I am still a Bushmaster fan, but I can like others also. And can give credit where it is due... 
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The best LPKs are Colt, LMT, and BCM but you have to buy the lower to get the BCM LPK. Stag and CMT are also good. Stay away from DPMS, RRA, and other makers in that tier. Daniel Defense should be ok but are still pretty new to have the final word on them yet. Nothing wrong with DPMS lower parts other than a few tight trigger guard pins. Bushmaster makes a great product, it's just that a lot of people here are following a trend. RRA makes a good product as well. Just my opinion having put together at least 8-10 lowers or so in the last ten years. This. not a damn thing wrong with bushmaster lower parts quality. People will tell you that unless you have XXXXX this or XXXXX that, your rifle wil only fire every other round and your wife will leave you. the FCG of a rifle does not matter for accuracy and reliability near as much as good mags, a good barrel and a good bcg assembly, in that order. I'd like to second the reccomendation on just swapping barrels. keep the upper and lower. just stick a new barrel on that guy 9/10 times a bushmaster BCG is staked perfectly and of good quality. A bolt change might not be a bad idea though.I agree that the lower parts shouldn't be an issue, but 9/10 Bushmaster BCGs are NOT "staked perfectly and of good quality". I've never seen a properly staked carrier from them and they still use the damn blue extractor insert on carbines, don't shot peen the bolt, and don't MPI/HPT every bolt. It looks like they take the time to machine and finish them properly so IMO they have no excuse to not take these extra steps and match the competition. |
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The best LPKs are Colt, LMT, and BCM but you have to buy the lower to get the BCM LPK. Stag and CMT are also good. Stay away from DPMS, RRA, and other makers in that tier. Daniel Defense should be ok but are still pretty new to have the final word on them yet. Nothing wrong with DPMS lower parts other than a few tight trigger guard pins. Bushmaster makes a great product, it's just that a lot of people here are following a trend. RRA makes a good product as well. Just my opinion having put together at least 8-10 lowers or so in the last ten years. This. not a damn thing wrong with bushmaster lower parts quality. People will tell you that unless you have XXXXX this or XXXXX that, your rifle wil only fire every other round and your wife will leave you. the FCG of a rifle does not matter for accuracy and reliability near as much as good mags, a good barrel and a good bcg assembly, in that order. I'd like to second the reccomendation on just swapping barrels. keep the upper and lower. just stick a new barrel on that guy 9/10 times a bushmaster BCG is staked perfectly and of good quality. A bolt change might not be a bad idea though.I agree that the lower parts shouldn't be an issue, but 9/10 Bushmaster BCGs are NOT "staked perfectly and of good quality". I've never seen a properly staked carrier from them and they still use the damn blue extractor insert on carbines, don't shot peen the bolt, and don't MPI/HPT every bolt. It looks like they take the time to machine and finish them properly so IMO they have no excuse to not take these extra steps and match the competition. As far as the BM BCGs not being staked properly, by whose standards?? They are staked fine, what proof that they are not? And they are not good quality? BS, the bolts are Carpenter158, but they do not MPI/HPT eery bolt, why should they? I have correspondence with the Bushmaster chief engineer about this very subject and he asked for proof that their staking is not "staked properly". How much gas key deformation is enough? I pulled several BM BCG to inspect them, they are all staked very similarly to my BCM BCG, just not as deeply- yet I have not had a failure yet. I did spend about 5 minutes with a punch, but cannot honestly say my staking improved their staking. I also have NEVER had a single failure to extract with any Bushmaster bolt, but I have a couple BCM extractor upgrade kits just in case. I doubt I will ever use them unless I take a course. Even then, I dunno. I read people's complaints, but in 15 years of heavy use, I have not had nor seen these failures. I do have a spare bolt carrier group, but it will also fit my Colt, BCM, or others if/when they fail. I have tortured several Bushmaster rifles, but since they build so many rifles, some do break (again as do Colts, BCMs, FNs, etc...). I plan to torture a couple Bushmasters this morning, maybe I'll break a bolt, I will try again... |
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The best LPKs are Colt, LMT, and BCM but you have to buy the lower to get the BCM LPK. Stag and CMT are also good. Stay away from DPMS, RRA, and other makers in that tier. Daniel Defense should be ok but are still pretty new to have the final word on them yet. Nothing wrong with DPMS lower parts other than a few tight trigger guard pins. Bushmaster makes a great product, it's just that a lot of people here are following a trend. RRA makes a good product as well. Just my opinion having put together at least 8-10 lowers or so in the last ten years. This. not a damn thing wrong with bushmaster lower parts quality. People will tell you that unless you have XXXXX this or XXXXX that, your rifle wil only fire every other round and your wife will leave you. the FCG of a rifle does not matter for accuracy and reliability near as much as good mags, a good barrel and a good bcg assembly, in that order. I'd like to second the reccomendation on just swapping barrels. keep the upper and lower. just stick a new barrel on that guy 9/10 times a bushmaster BCG is staked perfectly and of good quality. A bolt change might not be a bad idea though.I agree that the lower parts shouldn't be an issue, but 9/10 Bushmaster BCGs are NOT "staked perfectly and of good quality". I've never seen a properly staked carrier from them and they still use the damn blue extractor insert on carbines, don't shot peen the bolt, and don't MPI/HPT every bolt. It looks like they take the time to machine and finish them properly so IMO they have no excuse to not take these extra steps and match the competition. Thats a very bold statement to which I call bullshit on. Prove it. I have had 4 BM BCG's and the keys were staked perfectly. Percentagewise thats 100% success, not the 10% you claim. Just because a guy posted here..... knew a guy who had an uncle whose brother in law's sister's uncledaddy knew an armorer, who said BM's had crap stake jobs.....B/S!!! |
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The best LPKs are Colt, LMT, and BCM but you have to buy the lower to get the BCM LPK. Stag and CMT are also good. Stay away from DPMS, RRA, and other makers in that tier. Daniel Defense should be ok but are still pretty new to have the final word on them yet. Nothing wrong with DPMS lower parts other than a few tight trigger guard pins. Bushmaster makes a great product, it's just that a lot of people here are following a trend. RRA makes a good product as well. Just my opinion having put together at least 8-10 lowers or so in the last ten years. This. not a damn thing wrong with bushmaster lower parts quality. People will tell you that unless you have XXXXX this or XXXXX that, your rifle wil only fire every other round and your wife will leave you. the FCG of a rifle does not matter for accuracy and reliability near as much as good mags, a good barrel and a good bcg assembly, in that order. I'd like to second the reccomendation on just swapping barrels. keep the upper and lower. just stick a new barrel on that guy 9/10 times a bushmaster BCG is staked perfectly and of good quality. A bolt change might not be a bad idea though.I agree that the lower parts shouldn't be an issue, but 9/10 Bushmaster BCGs are NOT "staked perfectly and of good quality". I've never seen a properly staked carrier from them and they still use the damn blue extractor insert on carbines, don't shot peen the bolt, and don't MPI/HPT every bolt. It looks like they take the time to machine and finish them properly so IMO they have no excuse to not take these extra steps and match the competition. Thats a very bold statement to which I call bullshit on. Prove it. I have had 4 BM BCG's and the keys were staked perfectly. Percentagewise thats 100% success, not the 10% you claim. Just because a guy posted here..... knew a guy who had an uncle whose brother in law's sister's uncledaddy knew an armorer, who said BM's had crap stake jobs.....B/S!!! I've owned two Bushmaster BCGs, and sold them both as they were replaced with superior units. I've seen 3 others that were owned by friends of mine and they looked identical to the ones I sold. If you have pics of a properly staked BM BCG, please post it. The ones I've seen were barely hit and no metal was displaced into the screws. |
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