AR Sponsor
Posted: 3/9/2010 3:09:00 PM EDT
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I've got my tax return and i have about $2.5k im willing to spend on this complete rifle+optic.
i am looking for reliability over anything, as this will not be a safe queen. i am assuming this rifle will be banged around dropped/thrown stepped on etc... i will be shooting under 300m and the occasional 500m. I am new to civilian models of AR (i worked with gov issued m4's). i have no idea what to look for in civilian models of AR. so, all i am looking at is a rugged rifle for a SHTF scenario any suggestions on a particular rifle, or even perhaps a good pair of lower+upper? for the optic i was thinking a 1x or 4x (i have no problems hitting silhouettes at 300m with irons) perhaps a aimpoint with magnifyer? basically i just need something that will go boom when i squeeze the trigger and can take a beating. |
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Knights SR15 E3 IWS with a T1 and a light....and you're done.
OR- BCM 16" Middy upper with DD lite 12.0 rail and flip up irons (MBUS or Troys), BCM BCG with a BCM gunfighter mod 4 CH with... Lower of your choice, Geiselle SSA trigger, stock of your choice, T1 and light. If you want a 1-4, I'd recommend a TR24 with a triangle ret. I can easily make shots outward of 400 yards, and run it nearly as fast as an aimpoint up close. Great optic, and it doesn't use batteries. Its also has daytime illumination which is a huge bonus. Great SHTF optic. |
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My SHTF/LIberty Build (That Arfcom helped with…)
After much research and a lot of reading I decided on the following for my SHTF/Liberty build. Complete BCM Rifle. Midlength upper with DD 9.0 rail. BCM Bolt/Carrier that is Ion-Bonded. BCM Gunfighter charging handle MOD4. Bigger is better in this application for me. VLTOR E-Mod Stock for storage and comfort. Spikes Tactical VFG (chosen on Arfcom recommendation that it was built like a brick shithouse.) Larue Mount- Built in the dead center of Texas. Good product, seemed VERY strong when mounted to the weapon. Aimpoint ML3- I did not need the for the M3. Night vision capabilities are not needed at this time. The 50,000 hours of battery life is HUGE plus. Pelican M6 LED- I had it here and put it on for now. I may upgrade it later. KNS Pins- $25 Added them, but probably DO NOT need them. I am not real concerned with pin walk, but good to have the pins just in case. MI Buis- $0. I took it off of my wife’s build and used a standard Colt A2 detachable carry handle for hers. (She likes it better too. Win-win. Vortex flashhider- $46.99 COST- all prices include shipping. BCM Upper $779 BCM Lower $360 BCM Ionbond Bolt/Carrier $200 BCM Gunfighter-$45 Spikes VFG $51.00 Aimpoint ML3- $0 (gift for anniversary) Larue Mount- $113 (mil discount included…thanks guys!) VLTOR E-Mod- $80from Brownells Vortex flashider $48 from Brownells KNS Pins- $28from Brownells MI Buis- $0 Total- $1704 
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Colt 6920 or Complete BCM. With the BCM option you will have to order the complete upper (minus handguards and rear sight) and complete lower separately. With either option you will have more than enough money leftover for a quality optic. If you want magnification you can't beat an ACOG, otherwise I'd go Aimpoint in a LaRue mount (check out LaRue's optic/mount combo deals).
Somebody above mentioned KAC, Noveske, LWRC. As these are great rifles with higher price tags, be aware that they will not provide anymore reliability or durability than the Colt or BCM. |
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Buy an Arsenal AK74 SGL 31-61 and a couple thousand rounds and call it a day.
I have a very nice tricked out Noveske N4 14.5" light rail, Surefire light, LaRue mount, Aimpoint Comp, Magpul furniture, Vickers sling. Its shit on a stick. I got a Bulgarian AK 74 over the weekend. Bulgarian receiver and parts, built in Europe. Its lighter than the AR, has less recoil and I can drop it off my house and it will still work! Its cheaper to shoot, plenty accurate and I like it a bunch. Do yourself a favor and round one up to give it a try you won't be sorry. Oh, and for those that will complain about parts, you can buy two of these for the price of one nice AR. Store one for backup and use the other. |
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Quoted:
Buy an Arsenal AK74 SGL 31-61 and a couple thousand rounds and call it a day. I have a very nice tricked out Noveske N4 14.5" light rail, Surefire light, LaRue mount, Aimpoint Comp, Magpul furniture, Vickers sling. Its shit on a stick. I got a Bulgarian AK 74 over the weekend. Bulgarian receiver and parts, built in Europe. Its lighter than the AR, has less recoil and I can drop it off my house and it will still work! Its cheaper to shoot, plenty accurate and I like it a bunch. Do yourself a favor and round one up to give it a try you won't be sorry. Oh, and for those that will complain about parts, you can buy two of these for the price of one nice AR. Store one for backup and use the other. 
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| I highly recommend the KAC SR-15 e3. I've owned colts and they are nice but you'll always be wishing you got the KAC. It's so light weight and has everything out of the box. I read a post by the owner of KAC and he summed it up by saying they don't try to build a gun for the masses, but rather the absolute best rifle independent of price. |
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Buy an Arsenal AK74 SGL 31-61 and a couple thousand rounds and call it a day. I have a very nice tricked out Noveske N4 14.5" light rail, Surefire light, LaRue mount, Aimpoint Comp, Magpul furniture, Vickers sling. Its shit on a stick. I got a Bulgarian AK 74 over the weekend. Bulgarian receiver and parts, built in Europe. Its lighter than the AR, has less recoil and I can drop it off my house and it will still work! Its cheaper to shoot, plenty accurate and I like it a bunch. Do yourself a favor and round one up to give it a try you won't be sorry. Oh, and for those that will complain about parts, you can buy two of these for the price of one nice AR. Store one for backup and use the other. +1 Noveske is really, really, fucking good. And trade it for a Bulgy AK-74? as your go to gun? 
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Quoted:
Knights SR15 E3 IWS with a T1 and a light....and you're done. OR- BCM 16" Middy upper with DD lite 12.0 rail and flip up irons (MBUS or Troys), BCM BCG with a BCM gunfighter mod 4 CH with... Lower of your choice, Geiselle SSA trigger, stock of your choice, T1 and light. If you want a 1-4, I'd recommend a TR24 with a triangle ret. I can easily make shots outward of 400 yards, and run it nearly as fast as an aimpoint up close. Great optic, and it doesn't use batteries. Its also has daytime illumination which is a huge bonus. Great SHTF optic. this or a Colt 6920, Noveske N4, or Daniel Defense would be my suggestions.. |
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If I was in your situation, I'd build a 16" mid-length, government profile barrel upper from bravo company. I'd probably go with an 12" lightweight quality rail system, a TLR-1 flashlight, an Aimpoint T-1 red dot in a Larue QD mount, a magpul MS2 sling with the ASAP sling plate and magpul MBUS backup sights. Spend the rest on quality magazines and some good self defense ammo.
You can always buy better pistol grips, stocks, and other fancy accessories later on. |
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Buy an Arsenal AK74 SGL 31-61 and a couple thousand rounds and call it a day. I have a very nice tricked out Noveske N4 14.5" light rail, Surefire light, LaRue mount, Aimpoint Comp, Magpul furniture, Vickers sling. Its shit on a stick. I got a Bulgarian AK 74 over the weekend. Bulgarian receiver and parts, built in Europe. Its lighter than the AR, has less recoil and I can drop it off my house and it will still work! Its cheaper to shoot, plenty accurate and I like it a bunch. Do yourself a favor and round one up to give it a try you won't be sorry. Oh, and for those that will complain about parts, you can buy two of these for the price of one nice AR. Store one for backup and use the other. +1 Noveske is really, really, fucking good. And trade it for a Bulgy AK-74? as your go to gun?
Trade it? No, in addition to. I still have the N4. Plan to keep it. I just wanted to point out the AK 74 is a solid system and for the difference in money a person can get a good rifle, a bunch of ammo and then spend the difference on other SHTF gear. Thats all. You can pay more, but you don't always get more. I own 2 AR's and 1 AK 74. I'll be shooting the AK a lot. |
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BCM midlength, RRA or similar lower, install a Larue rail, get a T-1 Micro, Troy BUIS, Surefire light, sling, and the rest on a metric shit ton of ammo and mags
eta: I found a pic of exactly what I was talking about. You can decide whether or not you need a VFG or a replacement buttstock. 
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I would have to agree with KISS. A true SHTF weapon needs to survive the fan in order to work. I have a basic M-4 with an ACOG TA-11F, rail HG ,and a sling....nothing else. Now your talking. If there is a SHTF we all must be able to maintain and service whatever we stake our lives on. We may not be able to go to the store for a while. |
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Buy an Arsenal AK74 SGL 31-61 and a couple thousand rounds and call it a day. I have a very nice tricked out Noveske N4 14.5" light rail, Surefire light, LaRue mount, Aimpoint Comp, Magpul furniture, Vickers sling. Its shit on a stick. I got a Bulgarian AK 74 over the weekend. Bulgarian receiver and parts, built in Europe. Its lighter than the AR, has less recoil and I can drop it off my house and it will still work! Its cheaper to shoot, plenty accurate and I like it a bunch. Do yourself a favor and round one up to give it a try you won't be sorry. Oh, and for those that will complain about parts, you can buy two of these for the price of one nice AR. Store one for backup and use the other. Fail 
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Here is a basic list of my next build for SHTF
C3 Billet Upper and Lower RRA LPK Adams Carbine piston Fail Zero Bolt , coated piston BCG with fail zero, coated C3 Upper in fail zero. BCM 16" barrel DD Free float BCM charging handle Weapon mounted light Magpul AFG Trijicon TA11 magpul BUIS magpul CTR stock magpul MIAD magpul single point sling adapter All finished in a duracoat desert digital Should have this built by end of month just waiting on TA11 and barrel |
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My SHTF/LIberty Build (That Arfcom helped with…) After much research and a lot of reading I decided on the following for my SHTF/Liberty build. Complete BCM Rifle. Midlength upper with DD 9.0 rail. BCM Bolt/Carrier that is Ion-Bonded. BCM Gunfighter charging handle MOD4. Bigger is better in this application for me. VLTOR E-Mod Stock for storage and comfort. Spikes Tactical VFG (chosen on Arfcom recommendation that it was built like a brick shithouse.) Larue Mount- Built in the dead center of Texas. Good product, seemed VERY strong when mounted to the weapon. Aimpoint ML3- I did not need the for the M3. Night vision capabilities are not needed at this time. The 50,000 hours of battery life is HUGE plus. Pelican M6 LED- I had it here and put it on for now. I may upgrade it later. KNS Pins- $25 Added them, but probably DO NOT need them. I am not real concerned with pin walk, but good to have the pins just in case. MI Buis- $0. I took it off of my wife’s build and used a standard Colt A2 detachable carry handle for hers. (She likes it better too. Win-win. Vortex flashhider- $46.99 COST- all prices include shipping. BCM Upper $779 BCM Lower $360 BCM Ionbond Bolt/Carrier $200 BCM Gunfighter-$45 Spikes VFG $51.00 Aimpoint ML3- $0 (gift for anniversary) Larue Mount- $113 (mil discount included…thanks guys!) VLTOR E-Mod- $80from Brownells Vortex flashider $48 from Brownells KNS Pins- $28from Brownells MI Buis- $0 Total- $1704 http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o49/callahan318/AR15007.jpg Wow. This is the way to go. Just throw a padded VCAS on there and you're GTG. Then pay for a class, ammo, mags. |
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Buy an Arsenal AK74 SGL 31-61 and a couple thousand rounds and call it a day. I have a very nice tricked out Noveske N4 14.5" light rail, Surefire light, LaRue mount, Aimpoint Comp, Magpul furniture, Vickers sling. Its shit on a stick. I got a Bulgarian AK 74 over the weekend. Bulgarian receiver and parts, built in Europe. Its lighter than the AR, has less recoil and I can drop it off my house and it will still work! Its cheaper to shoot, plenty accurate and I like it a bunch. Do yourself a favor and round one up to give it a try you won't be sorry. Oh, and for those that will complain about parts, you can buy two of these for the price of one nice AR. Store one for backup and use the other. Fail How many AR's or AK's do you own? If any. Please share your wisdom with the group.
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I've got my tax return and i have about $2.5k im willing to spend on this complete rifle+optic. i am looking for reliability over anything, as this will not be a safe queen. i am assuming this rifle will be banged around dropped/thrown stepped on etc... i will be shooting under 300m and the occasional 500m. I am new to civilian models of AR (i worked with gov issued m4's). i have no idea what to look for in civilian models of AR. so, all i am looking at is a rugged rifle for a SHTF scenario any suggestions on a particular rifle, or even perhaps a good pair of lower+upper? for the optic i was thinking a 1x or 4x (i have no problems hitting silhouettes at 300m with irons) perhaps a aimpoint with magnifyer? basically i just need something that will go boom when i squeeze the trigger and can take a beating. I see that your emphasis above all else is reliability, I'm guessing that's feeding reliability. My suggestion is a upper with M-4 feed ramps, chrome lined barrel is nice and recommended, but not absolutely necessary. Few manufacturers sell rifles with M-4 feed ramps, try CMMG, DSA, Bravo Company. After that, buy a high quality bolt and key carrier. Anything else is purely cosmetic in configuring your rifle to your liking. |
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Buy an Arsenal AK74 SGL 31-61 and a couple thousand rounds and call it a day. I have a very nice tricked out Noveske N4 14.5" light rail, Surefire light, LaRue mount, Aimpoint Comp, Magpul furniture, Vickers sling. Its shit on a stick. I got a Bulgarian AK 74 over the weekend. Bulgarian receiver and parts, built in Europe. Its lighter than the AR, has less recoil and I can drop it off my house and it will still work! Its cheaper to shoot, plenty accurate and I like it a bunch. Do yourself a favor and round one up to give it a try you won't be sorry. Oh, and for those that will complain about parts, you can buy two of these for the price of one nice AR. Store one for backup and use the other. Fail How many AR's or AK's do you own? If any. Please share your wisdom with the group. I own 3 AK's and 3 AR's, and have run my Ak's in courses. 2 of those 3 AK's are Krebs. My AR's are my go-to guns, and I've run both in courses. The AR is a better platform to work with. Still haven't figured out how to put a TR24 on one of my AK's. If you want to trade your noveske for one of my Krebs, hit me up. |
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Buy an Arsenal AK74 SGL 31-61 and a couple thousand rounds and call it a day. I have a very nice tricked out Noveske N4 14.5" light rail, Surefire light, LaRue mount, Aimpoint Comp, Magpul furniture, Vickers sling. Its shit on a stick. I got a Bulgarian AK 74 over the weekend. Bulgarian receiver and parts, built in Europe. Its lighter than the AR, has less recoil and I can drop it off my house and it will still work! Its cheaper to shoot, plenty accurate and I like it a bunch. Do yourself a favor and round one up to give it a try you won't be sorry. Oh, and for those that will complain about parts, you can buy two of these for the price of one nice AR. Store one for backup and use the other. Fail How many AR's or AK's do you own? If any. Please share your wisdom with the group. I own 3 AK's and 3 AR's, and have run my Ak's in courses. 2 of those 3 AK's are Krebs. My AR's are my go-to guns, and I've run both in courses. The AR is a better platform to work with. Still haven't figured out how to put a TR24 on one of my AK's. If you want to trade your noveske for one of my Krebs, hit me up. No man, your good. Just wanted to make sure you were speaking from trigger experience and not mouse clicking experience. 30+ years weapons experience. I built the Noveske for business. I got the AK for pleasure. I also have a Stag AR built to KISS standards. I figure if the SHTF I'd like to have both platforms covered just in case. Rock on man! |
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Hell yeah...that is what I am referring to right there. Just get a good LMT 14.5" Chrome w/ M4 ramps and a Rock River Arms 2 Stage, and a good BCG. Then a sling, some ammo, and some spare parts. And get some good USGI mags, w/ MagPul Gen III followers. |
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Quoted: Yep!!!! LMT 14.5" upper, RRA lower, LMT BCG, PMAGS and a Vickers sling. For nights that I'm in the woods, I have a very simple Surefire G3 setup that mounts to the handguards. Hell yeah...that is what I am referring to right there. Just get a good LMT 14.5" Chrome w/ M4 ramps and a Rock River Arms 2 Stage, and a good BCG. Then a sling, some ammo, and some spare parts. And get some good USGI mags, w/ MagPul Gen III followers. |
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Buy an Arsenal AK74 SGL 31-61 and a couple thousand rounds and call it a day. I have a very nice tricked out Noveske N4 14.5" light rail, Surefire light, LaRue mount, Aimpoint Comp, Magpul furniture, Vickers sling. Its shit on a stick. I got a Bulgarian AK 74 over the weekend. Bulgarian receiver and parts, built in Europe. Its lighter than the AR, has less recoil and I can drop it off my house and it will still work! Its cheaper to shoot, plenty accurate and I like it a bunch. Do yourself a favor and round one up to give it a try you won't be sorry. Oh, and for those that will complain about parts, you can buy two of these for the price of one nice AR. Store one for backup and use the other. I`ll take a chicom ak47 over any 74 anyday. The OP was asking about ar`s though. For a trusty ar15, I would buy a colt 6920 though i havnt had a single malfunction with the mutt i built edit: how the hell are you gonna call a noveske "shit on a stick"!!!!!! Noveske is top notch! If Noveske is "shit on a stick" then all ar`s are shit. M16`s and M4`s keep you free. you may wanna re-think yourself |
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Knights SR15 E3 IWS with a T1 and a light....and you're done. OR- BCM 16" Middy upper with 9.0" LaRue Tactical rail and Troy rear sight, BCM BCG with a BCM gunfighter mod 4 CH with... Lower of your choice, mil-spec LPK, stock of your choice, T1 and light. If you want a 1-4, I'd recommend a TR24 with a triangle ret. I can easily make shots outward of 400 yards, and run it nearly as fast as an aimpoint up close. Great optic, and it doesn't use batteries. Its also has daytime illumination which is a huge bonus. Great SHTF optic. +1 with changes...but I'd get the SR15 no contest. |
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Mine would be
A midlength upper of some sort pick your flavor BCM, COLT, RRA, LMT. I actually like a 1:9 twist because it does well with a variety of ammo and is great with 55 and 62 grain projectiles, and in close it works fine with 75 grain ammo too. Most gun fights are in close anyway and minute of human is a big area. DI system for now. Chrome lined barrel Smith Vortex flash eliminator- the others may look cool but there really is no comparison for the price. a proven lower with an adjustable stock. I like commercial tubes because they have a little more beef in the diameter to resist denting and a little longer length of pull. I like the Magpul CTR or a plain standard military style butt stock. I like having the front post std sight. The rear sight could be a GG&G or a Troy, or a one of the usgi ones. Personally I have a bunch of different ones I really like the GG&G the USGI BUIS is cool too but only has one aperture size. I also have a RRA Dominator rear sight which I like very much. Red Dot Sight–– A little conflicted here I have several. The new Eotech with the single battery seems to work best for me, but i have less faith in it than the full sized Aimpoint. have a T1 but the field of view isnt as nice as the full sized . . . The T1 is small . . . ACOG- cool but inside a house or up close not great so Iron sights or a red dot over fixed 3x or 4x for me. Pistol grip-whatever feels best to you AND if you have a family one that fits your wife or kids as well so that they can use the gun. Charging handle––- LMT Tactical charging handle is just perfect for me. I like it over the BCM Gunfighter, but those are nice too BCG––-I have bought 2 lmt enhanced BCG's, both have had issues. Love the idea, but until I run em hard through a few days corse I will stick with LMT, COLT, or my proven RRAs that have gone through a couple of classes with no hiccups. Slings- NO THREE POINTS! Buy lots of QUALITY AMMO and practice Take a course where you learn moving and shooting, weapon clearing, and test your gun. I bought a SPIKES 22 lr UPPER and that has been an incredible investment last year I shot 15 t0 20k rounds through it with Black Dog 27 rnd mags. it improved my shooting for pennies compared to what it would have cost me for 5.56 ammo. Buy a quality case like a blackhawk to transport/store your gun and keep small tools parts and a few loaded mags in. For lighting buy a quality light that works well for you––-personally I dont like surefire pressure switches, they seem to get triggered when I don't want or pressed by other gear. You might laugh but right now I have a pistol light on my duty rifle has constant on off or pulse which is easy to operate without compromising my hold on the gun works out to about 100 yards. For mags I have a bunch, but currently I have USGI grey teflon coated mags with CS or SS springs and magpul followers. They are proven, Fit in all my gear, and I have 6 loaded in a rig that can be used as a chest rig or thrown over the shoulder in a hurry. I have a 20 rnd straight body loaded in the rifle when stored, hammer down on empty chamber. All I can think of right now hope i didn't forget something. I love my ARs, but I also have a Springfield SOCOM 16 ready to go. |
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BCM midlength, RRA or similar lower, install a Larue rail, get a T-1 Micro, Troy BUIS, Surefire light, sling, and the rest on a metric shit ton of ammo and mags eta: I found a pic of exactly what I was talking about. You can decide whether or not you need a VFG or a replacement buttstock. http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/IMG_0168001_.jpg This. And you may have a couple bucks left over to appy towards ammo/mags or a beater KISS. You do want a KISS now too, don't you? (BRD enabler  )
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and stock up on ammo and glock19 |
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I agree, keep is simple. I'm a beginner, but I instantly fell in love with my rifle after I had it built. First AR and while I have the bug to buy another or 5, I would still be content with just having this.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v170/jacobwebber/Picture014.jpg I left it open for mods, but I enjoy shooting with it in its current state of glory. |
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Man you are getting a quite a selection here. I would go with a Colt 6920, if you are use to the Military M4, you will have no problem liking this rifle. I would then add the optic of choice, Acog, Eotech, Aimpoint etc... Any left over buy ammo and mags. I am waiting for UPS right now to deliver my new Colt 6920!!
NCH |
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My SHTF/LIberty Build (That Arfcom helped with…) After much research and a lot of reading I decided on the following for my SHTF/Liberty build. Complete BCM Rifle. Midlength upper with DD 9.0 rail. BCM Bolt/Carrier that is Ion-Bonded. BCM Gunfighter charging handle MOD4. Bigger is better in this application for me. VLTOR E-Mod Stock for storage and comfort. Spikes Tactical VFG (chosen on Arfcom recommendation that it was built like a brick shithouse.) Larue Mount- Built in the dead center of Texas. Good product, seemed VERY strong when mounted to the weapon. Aimpoint ML3- I did not need the for the M3. Night vision capabilities are not needed at this time. The 50,000 hours of battery life is HUGE plus. Pelican M6 LED- I had it here and put it on for now. I may upgrade it later. KNS Pins- $25 Added them, but probably DO NOT need them. I am not real concerned with pin walk, but good to have the pins just in case. MI Buis- $0. I took it off of my wife’s build and used a standard Colt A2 detachable carry handle for hers. (She likes it better too. Win-win. Vortex flashhider- $46.99 COST- all prices include shipping. BCM Upper $779 BCM Lower $360 BCM Ionbond Bolt/Carrier $200 BCM Gunfighter-$45 Spikes VFG $51.00 Aimpoint ML3- $0 (gift for anniversary) Larue Mount- $113 (mil discount included…thanks guys!) VLTOR E-Mod- $80from Brownells Vortex flashider $48 from Brownells KNS Pins- $28from Brownells MI Buis- $0 Total- $1704 http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o49/callahan318/AR15007.jpg Wow. This is the way to go. Just throw a padded VCAS on there and you're GTG. Then pay for a class, ammo, mags. I agree with this setup. Damn near perfection... |
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