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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Magpul AFG (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 3/8/2010 3:56:44 PM EDT
| My search-fu is weak......I've been fondling an AFG on one of my carbines. I haven't shot it yet, but it feels pretty good. What do you all think about the new AFG? Is it a flavor of the month gimmick or a sound accessory? |
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I put mine on my carbine and on my middy. It works better IMO with the middy. The wrist and arm position is much more comfortable on the middy and does not feel as "forced".
I putt he VFG back on the carbine and it feels much better using the ring and pinky against the front of the VFG and the ring finger and index along the lower section of the rail covers in front of the VFG. |
| I'm considering one. All of the pictures I've seen have it normally midway to all the way out under the handguards. However, for me I realized that it looks like it duplicates my natural hold which is close in with the rear of my palm against the mag well. I'm wondering if the AFG placed all the way at the rear underside of my handguard would benefit me. |
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I have an AFG on my CQB MRP. Unless you have really short arms (I don't) I think it belongs (as in work better) on longer rail systems. That being said, I have seen plenty of pics on carbine length rails and the owners seem happy with it. It should work BEST on longer rails. This i sto get your support hand as near the muzzle as possible. While I have not been taught the Magpul Dynamics method. I was taught how to do this for 3gun with a rifle length free float tube. A long time before anyone heard of an AFG. |
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While IMO it does work best on middys and up I have them on my carbines and like them. For me, they feel much much better than a regular VFG and a small bit better than the plain handguard grip. Before I purchased one to try I thought that the benefit would be primarily from the angle of the forward wrist being more natural. While the angle IS more natural this was not the primary benefit for me. It was because I could so much more easily pull the rifle into my shoulder and really solidify things up. I also quickly found that I like the flat insert over the finger groove insert that come with the AFG. In addition I took my soldering iron to it to make it more grippy and it works even better.
The only thing about them I haven't figured out yet is the optimal way to mount and run a weapon light. |
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They're great, provided you use them the way they're supposed to be used.... http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Marksman142/473.jpg http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Marksman142/474.jpg Are you serious? Thumb over the top? Doesn't feel good to me. |
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They're great, provided you use them the way they're supposed to be used.... http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Marksman142/473.jpg http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Marksman142/474.jpg Are you serious? Thumb over the top? Doesn't feel good to me. It all really is about how you feel most comfortable, however, yes, that is the way an AFG is intended to be used. |
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They're great, provided you use them the way they're supposed to be used.... http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Marksman142/473.jpg http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Marksman142/474.jpg Are you serious? Thumb over the top? Doesn't feel good to me. It all really is about how you feel most comfortable, however, yes, that is the way an AFG is intended to be used. I about died laughing when I saw those pics... That aint the right way... Your left elbow is riding way high and your wrapping over the top of the gun with your whole arm... 
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They're great, provided you use them the way they're supposed to be used.... http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Marksman142/473.jpg http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Marksman142/474.jpg Are you serious? Thumb over the top? Doesn't feel good to me. It all really is about how you feel most comfortable, however, yes, that is the way an AFG is intended to be used. I about died laughing when I saw those pics... That aint the right way... http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz314/Magpul_Industries/AFG_9.jpg http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz314/Magpul_Industries/AFG_6.jpg huh? come again? that's exactly how the AFG is supposed to be used. nice pics Marksman. Is that your land? If so, nice little range. |
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They're great, provided you use them the way they're supposed to be used.... http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Marksman142/473.jpg http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Marksman142/474.jpg Are you serious? Thumb over the top? Doesn't feel good to me. It all really is about how you feel most comfortable, however, yes, that is the way an AFG is intended to be used. I about died laughing when I saw those pics... That aint the right way... http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz314/Magpul_Industries/AFG_9.jpg http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz314/Magpul_Industries/AFG_6.jpg huh? come again? that's exactly how the AFG is supposed to be used. nice pics Marksman. Is that your land? If so, nice little range. better look again chief... It should NOT look like your shielding your face under your arm while your shooting... You want to be close to your natural rifle grip but with option of puting your thumb on top of rail. I use this hold on my rifle before AFG's came around |
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Thumb over the top just doesn't work for me either. I let my thumb ride along the side of the forend about the 10 o'clock position. I must have short arms as my support arm is full extended when running the AFG on my carbine. The thumb over the top can work fine, the problem is when your elbow comes up to far to compensate; Thumb up or not your elbow should be in the same position |
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They're great, provided you use them the way they're supposed to be used.... http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Marksman142/473.jpg http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Marksman142/474.jpg Are you serious? Thumb over the top? Doesn't feel good to me. Yes I'm serious, and I dont care whats comfortable for you. |
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They're great, provided you use them the way they're supposed to be used.... http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Marksman142/473.jpg http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Marksman142/474.jpg Are you serious? Thumb over the top? Doesn't feel good to me. It all really is about how you feel most comfortable, however, yes, that is the way an AFG is intended to be used. I about died laughing when I saw those pics... That aint the right way... Your left elbow is riding way high and your wrapping over the top of the gun with your whole arm... http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz314/Magpul_Industries/AFG_9.jpg http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz314/Magpul_Industries/AFG_6.jpg http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz314/Magpul_Industries/AFG_7.jpg Rallysoob, I'm pretty sure if I was doing it wrong Mike Lamb and Chris Costa would have told me when they taught me how to shoot that way. My arm is maybe 1/2 inch above haley's (maybe) in the pictures you posted, and if you look at the way Costa shoots, hes at times even higher than I am. But of course you know better. Im sure you of all people could make me a better shooter, since you're obviously way faster and better than me and thank god you'll be able to ID that over the shoulder behind and to the left threat  .
Camera angle is also a big key here, as is the fact that I'm wearing 3 layers and a jacket, adding about 3/4 of an inch of fabric, and believe it or not, when I grip that way I can still see to my left. Come up north and try shooting in the cold chief, you're gonna have to dress to the occasion. Try it wearing your clothing, and tell me what you're really missing when you're engaging a threat directly infront of you- grip it like me. Then move your elbow down to what you feel is the best shooting position. You're gonna lose some field of view no matter what you do, and your shoulder, which is the biggest blocker, doesn't change positions regardless of the angle of your arm. I can still see over it, and I can see UNDER it too. No more or less field of view, just a different one- Arms get in the way, no matter where they are. But again, if you'd have tried it before opening your mouth, you might know that. Regardless, that is what SEARCH AND ASSESS IS FOR. IF someone is coming up behind me and to the left, I'm not going to notice it under stress when I'm driving the gun to a target, and if you think you will...then you're fucking superman, or really really really ignorant and overestimating your visual acuity. I will notice it after during a search and assess, and that is why its taught. Grip won't change that one bit, but since you obviously know enough to tell me I'm wrong you'll be quick to have a response for that too. The only time my arm is up that high is when I have ID'ed a threat, and decided to engage it. The second I am done, that elbow and the rifle drop so that I'm looking over the optic, my head comes up and starts to rotate. But you obviously knew that, right? ETA- Rallysoob, look at the last picture of Haley that you posted, under the sword analogy. Take into account camera angle and clothing. I'm really sick of trying to defend myself against some all knowing internet god, but how is my grip and LOS any different than that? I'll give you a clue, its not. ETA again.... 
Please. Give Chris a call and tell him hes doing it wrong too 
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Im not gonna have an armchair commando session with you bud. Comparing your first pics to what magpul guys are doing in their pics and your not holding it right. I was taught always to have your elbow level, not up, not down; you posted pics with your elbow up. that's all I said... It looks hella funny too, so I laughed...more than once. Don't get butt hurt. But your not holding it the same way they are in those pics you posted initially
also, what if a target/enemy is making movement to your left side? would you even be able to see it? field of view should be re-considered imo |
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They're great, provided you use them the way they're supposed to be used.... http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Marksman142/473.jpg http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Marksman142/474.jpg Are you serious? Thumb over the top? Doesn't feel good to me. It all really is about how you feel most comfortable, however, yes, that is the way an AFG is intended to be used. I about died laughing when I saw those pics... That aint the right way... Your left elbow is riding way high and your wrapping over the top of the gun with your whole arm... http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz314/Magpul_Industries/AFG_9.jpg http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz314/Magpul_Industries/AFG_6.jpg http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz314/Magpul_Industries/AFG_7.jpg Mr Internet commando, You are more than welcome to head attend one of our training sessions every Saturday morning. We can set up a course of fire and see who is doing it right. Marksman14 is not your average shooter and actually trains on a regular basis and knows what the fuck he is talking about. The guy is really good, and there are plenty of ARFCOMers that can back me up. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: They're great, provided you use them the way they're supposed to be used.... http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Marksman142/473.jpg http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Marksman142/474.jpg Are you serious? Thumb over the top? Doesn't feel good to me. It all really is about how you feel most comfortable, however, yes, that is the way an AFG is intended to be used. I about died laughing when I saw those pics... That aint the right way... Your left elbow is riding way high and your wrapping over the top of the gun with your whole arm... http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz314/Magpul_Industries/AFG_9.jpg http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz314/Magpul_Industries/AFG_6.jpg http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz314/Magpul_Industries/AFG_7.jpg Mr Internet commando, You are more than welcome to head attend one of our training sessions every Saturday morning. We can set up a course of fire and see who is doing it right. Marksman14 is not your average shooter and actually trains on a regular basis and knows what the fuck he is talking about. The guy is really good, and there are plenty of ARFCOMers that can back me up. I dont disagree... but in those pics he is not holding it right. and I'll stick to that  I warned this person before about posting stupid shit like this in the AR forum, I locked him for the weekend and removed his right to post in the AR forums-Aimless |
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They're great, provided you use them the way they're supposed to be used.... http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Marksman142/473.jpg http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Marksman142/474.jpg Are you serious? Thumb over the top? Doesn't feel good to me. It all really is about how you feel most comfortable, however, yes, that is the way an AFG is intended to be used. I about died laughing when I saw those pics... That aint the right way... Your left elbow is riding way high and your wrapping over the top of the gun with your whole arm... http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz314/Magpul_Industries/AFG_9.jpg http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz314/Magpul_Industries/AFG_6.jpg http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz314/Magpul_Industries/AFG_7.jpg Mr Internet commando, You are more than welcome to head attend one of our training sessions every Saturday morning. We can set up a course of fire and see who is doing it right. Marksman14 is not your average shooter and actually trains on a regular basis and knows what the fuck he is talking about. The guy is really good, and there are plenty of ARFCOMers that can back me up. I dont disagree... but in those pics he is not holding it right. and I'll stick to that http://www.forumspile.com/Internet-Don't_worry_sir.jpg Classic move done by someone who realized their argument was shit who realized they probably shouldn't have spoke up in the first place...posting cute pictures that someone else created and trying to relate it to a situation where they bit off a little bit more than they can chew. By the way, you didnt address ANY point I made in my post up there in my post- The last pic of Haley, the picture of Costa at the course I took with him, nothing. Not one- nor did you address any point Remman made. You just continued telling me I am wrong and posting your bullshit failing argument from one picture you've seen of me in the middle of a 5 shot rapid fire string. There is only one armchair commando monday morning quarterbacking here, and that would be you. You wanna know how long the gun was in that position to fire off 5 aimed shots into an 8 inch circle at that range? About 2 seconds, and that includes bringing the gun up from a low ready. If you can manage to figure out what my FOV is in 2 seconds, stay in a position that is completely blocked by it, and advance faster than Michael Johnson on steroids and speed, then I guess you'll fucking get me. You're more than welcomed to come shoot with us and see if you can do it in that timespan without me noticing. Didn't think so. Its not about getting in an armchair argument. One of us is actually taking courses and training on a regular basis, the other is sitting here running their mouth. Again, feel free to come shoot with us this saturday, and do your best to sneak up on me Again...didn't think so 
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| first off, you invest a little more ego into your posts than I do. I stated the obvious and nothings changed bud. His elbow is too high and it's starting to roll over the top of the weapon. no bueno. maybe you should watch your magpul video again. Really...You should relax, then fix the problem and move on. It's not that big of a deal to do it wrong. It just made me laugh, sorry if I offended you but it was funny to see |
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first off, you invest a little more ego into your posts than I do. I stated the obvious and nothings changed bud. His elbow is too high and it's starting to roll over the top of the weapon. no bueno. maybe you should watch your magpul video again. Really...You should relax, then fix the problem and move on. It's not that big of a deal to do it wrong. It just made me laugh, sorry if I offended you but it was funny to see And thats the best you can do? You're right. It bothers me when some < Please keep the CoC violating comments out of the Tech Forums - F > on the internet tells me I'm wrong and then can't even bother to explain how or why. My elbow is not too high, and how can you possibly tell me its rolling over the gun with two photos? You can't. You don't have enough information to make any kind of educated response, plain and simple...yet you're still trying to. Still trying to figure out why you even think you have the right to come in here and critque me. I've paid much much better and brighter people to do that for me than you, and they'd all disagree with your position when it comes to how I grip the rifle
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first off, you invest a little more ego into your posts than I do. I stated the obvious and nothings changed bud. His elbow is too high and it's starting to roll over the top of the weapon. no bueno. maybe you should watch your magpul video again. Really...You should relax, then fix the problem and move on. It's not that big of a deal to do it wrong. It just made me laugh, sorry if I offended you but it was funny to see And thats the best you can do? You're right. It bothers me when some ignorant jackass on the internet tells me I'm wrong and then can't even bother to explain how or why. My elbow is not too high, and how can you possibly tell me its rolling over the gun with two photos? You can't. You don't have enough information to make any kind of educated response, plain and simple...yet you're still trying to. Still trying to figure out why you even think you have the right to come in here and critque me. I've paid much much better and brighter people to do that for me than you, and they'd all disagree < Please keep the CoC violating comments out of the Tech Forums - F > |
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first off, you invest a little more ego into your posts than I do. I stated the obvious and nothings changed bud. His elbow is too high and it's starting to roll over the top of the weapon. no bueno. maybe you should watch your magpul video again. Really...You should relax, then fix the problem and move on. It's not that big of a deal to do it wrong. It just made me laugh, sorry if I offended you but it was funny to see And thats the best you can do? You're right. It bothers me when some ignorant jackass on the internet tells me I'm wrong and then can't even bother to explain how or why. My elbow is not too high, and how can you possibly tell me its rolling over the gun with two photos? You can't. You don't have enough information to make any kind of educated response, plain and simple...yet you're still trying to. Still trying to figure out why you even think you have the right to come in here and critque me. I've paid much much better and brighter people to do that for me than you, and they'd all disagree http://quadforce.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/gfight.gif Rule 6, COC Quoted for posterity, nice try with the edit. Sorry to the OP for this bullshit getting out of hand 
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They're great, provided you use them the way they're supposed to be used.... http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Marksman142/473.jpg http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Marksman142/474.jpg Are you serious? Thumb over the top? Doesn't feel good to me. It all really is about how you feel most comfortable, however, yes, that is the way an AFG is intended to be used. I about died laughing when I saw those pics... That aint the right way... Your left elbow is riding way high and your wrapping over the top of the gun with your whole arm... http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz314/Magpul_Industries/AFG_9.jpg http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz314/Magpul_Industries/AFG_6.jpg http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz314/Magpul_Industries/AFG_7.jpg You do realize the camera angle on the Magpul pics is looking up from below, while the M-14s photo angle is looking from above the plane of the rifle? Without a good front or rear view it's almost impossible if someones elbow is too high. |
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They're great, provided you use them the way they're supposed to be used.... http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Marksman142/473.jpg http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Marksman142/474.jpg Are you serious? Thumb over the top? Doesn't feel good to me. It all really is about how you feel most comfortable, however, yes, that is the way an AFG is intended to be used. I about died laughing when I saw those pics... That aint the right way... Your left elbow is riding way high and your wrapping over the top of the gun with your whole arm... http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz314/Magpul_Industries/AFG_9.jpg http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz314/Magpul_Industries/AFG_6.jpg http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz314/Magpul_Industries/AFG_7.jpg You do realize the camera angle on the Magpul pics is looking up from below, while the M-14s photo angle is looking from above the plane of the rifle? Without a good front or rear view it's almost impossible if someones elbow is too high. Exactly...the one picture simply isn't enough. Add a slight rightward lean, a somewhat lower shot with the camera, and an elbow can appear as if its orbiting the moon. Not to beat a dead horse, but I have tendonitis in my left shoulder. I cannot physically raise the damn thing high enough to block my FOV immediately to my left at eye level unless I really try to dip my head, or wear a ton of layers which certainly didn't help the appearance of the picture...but I promise it was more than just the clothing making it appear as high as some of you are believing. In order to fully block it, I have to either put strain on my neck or shoulder, neither of which I do. Perspective is key here, but what I have found is that the magpul taught stance and the AFG really make me much faster. Toward the beginning of the carbine one course, I had my elbow bent slightly, and pointed toward the ground. Raising it up as instructed so the elbow is pointing directly to the left personally has made me a faster shooter. Combine that with the AFG and putting the thumb on top of the rail it helps mitigate the upward forces felt during recoil. Keeping that buttstock planted gives you a firm base for recoil control, and a dominant grip makes it alot easier to shoot faster. My groups are much tighter now during rapid fire, and my ability to engage multiple threats with speed has increased as well. Again though, this grip is not for everyone. You have to adopt the style to get the most out of it, and simply put thats not the best nor most comfortable for every body out there- luckily it works for me, and if you're willing to put the magpul theory to test, you might find its a great product to help you become a better shooter too, and if not, the good news is AFG's sell really quickly on the EE 
To venture slightly off topic, but still work within the realm of the theory that the AFG works on, the stance can block some field of view from the back left, but rarely do I feel like I cannot have a great feel of whats going on back there. There is more to it that sitting there in that particular stance. Your job is to constantly be aware of your surroundings, and when you do get in a situation where tunnel vision is inevitable (IE, engaging a threat), you have to do everything you can to BREAK that, and that is where the search and assess comes in. Even with the arm up high, you still have a great field of view, its just different than it is with other stances- regardless, the gun only remains in that position while I am firing, and while most normal folks and even well trained folks experience tunnel vision. At that moment, your field of view is limited by your brains natural tendency which is to threat focus. Again, search and assess. If I'm not leaning to one side to shoot around cover, then I can see eye level all around me using this stance. But how often does this happen in the real world? If I'm using a carbine to defend myself, chances are I will be leaning to shoot around cover. If done to the right, then yes...your FOV is blocked. If shooting urban prone, my ass is in the way, if kneeling, now I'm blocking a different FOV than I was when standing, etc etc. The real world isn't perfect, and field of view is often limited by other factors than your left arm. The only time people shoot static and straight up in a standing position is at the range while working on fundamentals. Again, this is why they stress the importance of search and assess. I've never seen someone engage a real threat standing perfectly straight up or very very close to it, like I am shooting in the picture. Point being, field of view is almost always going to be compromised by something, and its the shooter that has to take the necessary steps to work around that. I'm very confident using that stance and grip, especially when combined with the AFG. While I haven't run a gun with an AFG and without it against a shot timer, I feel that the AFG, being more comfortable, would show its true benefit after a long day of slinging lead. It also gives me multiple points to pull against which in turn makes the firearm feel more secure. Your milage may vary, but I feel its a good product if you're willing to take the extra steps. |
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They're great, provided you use them the way they're supposed to be used.... http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Marksman142/473.jpg http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Marksman142/474.jpg Are you serious? Thumb over the top? Doesn't feel good to me. Yes I'm serious, and I dont care whats comfortable for you. Easy Marksman.............this was not meant to be a 14 year old girl's "are you serious".....rather this was a 33 year old man's genuine question. I agree that you shouldn't "care" about my grip, but I was mearly trying to clarify so that I can learn. The picture looked odd to me, but I'll openly admit that I don't understand this grip yet..........this is the reason I asked in the first place. I had no intent to judge what you were doing, but I had difficulty trying to apply what I saw.......hence my response. |
| Looks like a great grip for three gun shooting where you use that long reach hold to quickly transition between targets. But how is it going to work when you end up wrestling over control of your carbine with some thug in the middle of the night, seems like it would be compromised for retention but have not had a chance to use one. |
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Looks like a great grip for three gun shooting where you use that long reach hold to quickly transition between targets. But how is it going to work when you end up wrestling over control of your carbine with some thug in the middle of the night, seems like it would be compromised for retention but have not had a chance to use one. IMO, with your support hand closer to end of the barrel you have MORE retention ability. |
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They're great, provided you use them the way they're supposed to be used.... http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Marksman142/473.jpg http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Marksman142/474.jpg Are you serious? Thumb over the top? Doesn't feel good to me. Yes I'm serious, and I dont care whats comfortable for you. Easy Marksman.............this was not meant to be a 14 year old girl's "are you serious".....rather this was a 33 year old man's genuine question. I agree that you shouldn't "care" about my grip, but I was mearly trying to clarify so that I can learn. The picture looked odd to me, but I'll openly admit that I don't understand this grip yet..........this is the reason I asked in the first place. I had no intent to judge what you were doing, but I had difficulty trying to apply what I saw.......hence my response. I hope my responses covered the explanation. For me it helps mitigate as much muzzle rise as possible. I agree it looks strange, and it took me a while to get comfortable doing it, but it truly is a great way to run an AR if you have the rail space. |
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Looks like a great grip for three gun shooting where you use that long reach hold to quickly transition between targets. But how is it going to work when you end up wrestling over control of your carbine with some thug in the middle of the night, seems like it would be compromised for retention but have not had a chance to use one. Actually I have found that I get more control over the weapon. If someone grabs the weapon and pulls left to right, they have no leverage...its just me versus you. If I am using a vertical foregrip and have my grip lower on the weapon, they now have their strength+ leverage to rotate the gun outside of an area that my grip is physically able to go. Grabbing the forearm, whether using an AFG or not to me is more solid than a VFG. |
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Looks like a great grip for three gun shooting where you use that long reach hold to quickly transition between targets. But how is it going to work when you end up wrestling over control of your carbine with some thug in the middle of the night, seems like it would be compromised for retention but have not had a chance to use one. Actually I have found that I get more control over the weapon. If someone grabs the weapon and pulls left to right, they have no leverage...its just me versus you. If I am using a vertical foregrip and have my grip lower on the weapon, they now have their strength+ leverage to rotate the gun outside of an area that my grip is physically able to go. Grabbing the forearm, whether using an AFG or not to me is more solid than a VFG. I agree. If you use a magwell grip and someone grabs your barrel and attempts to move the gun from left to right you will not be able to stop them. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Magpul AFG (Page 1 of 2)
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