AR Sponsor
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Gas rings keep lining up!! (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 2/7/2010 3:47:51 PM EDT
|
So my firend just purchased a Shrubmaster and it was short stroking on every round. We took it apart and found a broken gas ring. I replaced it with another ring and spaced the gaps out. Now it has TWICE within 100 round re aligned the gas rings!
Twice now!!! Within 100 rounds! Whats the deal here folks? Anyone else had thi problem? |
|
I would say your issue is not gas ring alignment. For 15 years I have been shooting the M16 in the Corps. For numerous years I have been shooting civilian AR15s and currently own 12 of them. I have never seen or heard of misaligned gas rings causing an issue and I have never checked them for alignment.
Just my $0.02 |
|
If you think its a gas ring issue
Gas ring serviceability check: - Field strip BCG - Clean and dry bolt and carrier - Install bolt into carrier without cam pin - Hold carrier with bolt facing down - Then bolt should not drop from the carrier under its own weight - If the bolt drops, replace the gas rings |
|
Go buy a lottery ticket. You and your buddy are very lucky.
I have never seen all three gas ring gaps line up. I don't take the rifle apart every string of 100 rounds to check either 
Seriously, it aint a problem. If the carrier eats gas rings, that is a problem.... with the carrier. |
|
Quoted:
If you think its a gas ring issue Gas ring serviceability check: - Field strip BCG - Clean and dry bolt and carrier - Install bolt into carrier with without cam pin - Hold carrier with bolt facing down - Then bolt should not drop from the carrier under its own weight - If the bolt drops, replace the gas rings 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you think its a gas ring issue Gas ring serviceability check: - Field strip BCG - Clean and dry bolt and carrier - Install bolt into carrier with without cam pin - Hold carrier with bolt facing down - Then bolt should not drop from the carrier under its own weight - If the bolt drops, replace the gas rings oops, thank for catching that for me. |
|
Guys stop lying to the man. His BCG is screwed up. I'll tell you what. Put it together and make sure none of the rings are lining up. The shoot 5 rounds through it and take it apart. Then inspect it. If they aren't lined up yet, put it back together and shoot some more. Check again. If they ever line up before you shoot 1000 rds, you need a whole new upper. Its not just the rings. Send me the junk upper and go ahead and order you a new one.
|
| Gas ring alignment has nothing to do with the broken ring. The rings rotate naturally during operation. Staggering the ring gaps is not needed, it has been proven that rifle will function with only one ring. I have often found my rings aligned upon dis-assembly when they were staggered before assembly, it's a non-issue. |
|
Quoted:
Gas ring alignment has nothing to do with the broken ring. The rings rotate naturally during operation. Staggering the ring gaps is not needed, it has been proven that rifle will function with only one ring. I have often found my rings aligned upon dis-assembly when they were staggered before assembly, it's a non-issue. What he said. |
|
Well this is odd..
We get short strokes and when we space the rings, it works perfect. as soon as the rifle starts short stroking we take it apart, space the rings again, and it works perfect.... For another 100 rounds or so. Then it short strokes! So we take the rifle apart and space the rings... Works perfect... for another 100 rounds till it short strokes... so we take the gun apart and space the rings.. it works perfect... for another........
You guys understand right? 
I have had the entire gas system off this rifle already and everything lines up, and is of correct size... This is some odd stuff!! Should I try to get a video of it doing it? |
|
Look, I have built more then a handfull of AR-15's I have many SBR's that I have built and all of them run like a top. Even with the supressors, Blow backs, you name it...
I am a Fourth Award Expert Rifleman in the United States Marines... I got to have fun with my weapon in E-Timor along with the 31st MEU.. I was part of Cobra Gold in 1997.. I also participated in the Urban Warrior project. I have plenty of time behind the trigger of the M-16/AR platform while in the fleet via 1st BN 5th Marines 1st Mar Div, C. Co. Weapons.. Please... Tell me one more time it is User Error... The above is exactly as I am telling it. I figured I would ask my friends over at "AR15.com" for some possible help on the subject, but I guess that is out of the question.. Thanks for your help anyhow though. I will ask the question on a more serious board. |
|
Yes....
I purchased a team membership, have been here since 2003, and have over 2500 posts just so I can troll...... 
Please stay out of my thread instead of shitting on it. If you have nothing to add that could possibly help, then I would think you are the one trolling... |
| I'm sure that spacing isn't critical, but if it wasn't at least advisable, all of the manuals that I've read would have saved the ink to print that in their instructions. I would say that there is a possibility of excessive pressure in the the gas system. The rings are lining up as the gas is trying to force it's way to the path of least resistance. Have you noticed anything with the brass. It could also be an issue with the inside of the carrier. A burr or something causing the rings to seize as they move in and out, and then when the gaps in the rings line up with the obstruction they no longer have to turn in order to move freely. |
|
I am thinking it is a bolt carrier issue, but it all looks and feels fine. I am going to swap parts with a know good rifle and try to weed out some parts...
The rifle is clean, and we are using the XM193 black tactical box ammo.. Brass looks normal. It's just odd to me that the gas rings have such a big thing to do on this rifle.. I can NO SHIT! make the rifle run by spacing the rings.. 
|
|
Quoted:
I am thinking it is a bolt carrier issue, but it all looks and feels fine. I am going to swap parts with a know good rifle and try to weed out some parts... The rifle is clean, and we are using the XM193 black tactical box ammo.. Brass looks normal. It's just odd to me that the gas rings have such a big thing to do on this rifle.. I can NO SHIT! make the rifle run by spacing the rings.. sounds like all of your rings are worn out and possibly the bolt carrier. Since its a bushmaster I would also make sure the carrier key hasnt worked loose as well. I have a bushmaster and I like mine, its just ugly but shoots well. Anyway, like piston rings in an engine if one fails best bet is to REPLACE them all as one breaking is a sign the others are probably worn out as well. Thats what I would do. If all else fails and you have seemed to confine your problem to the bcg then replace the works with a good unit. Its far easier than hasseling with an ongoing problem in the long run. |
|
Quoted:
i have had guns run on 1 gas ring. the "line up" is a myth. same here they even tell people in the colt armorers class now they do not need to be aligned. having to replace one ring already should have told you something...... on a normal well made rifle, lining them up doesnt matter you got other problems. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
i have had guns run on 1 gas ring. the "line up" is a myth. same here they even tell people in the colt armorers class now they do not need to be aligned. having to replace one ring already should have told you something...... on a normal well made rifle, lining them up doesnt matter you got other problems. You both lie.... It does make a difference when they line up in the right position, however you will find the gun works. When have you gone through the colt armorers class? Ir was it your uncles, buddies, mother in laws cousin? 
|
|
i dunno 20+ years of building and shooting them. competitions. military service etc.... i don't need an armorers course to know BS when it's spouted.
you do realize that during firing those rings move on their own and eventually WILL all align on their own at some point. especially under FA fire. |
|
Did you try the drop free test?
How about dropping the bolt in a different carrier. The fact that the rings allign themselves is wierd but really shouldnt matter.
hope you figure it out. quick fix I would think! 
|
| i had similar problems on a dpms, tried a different BCG from my other AR and it worked 100% no problem. I was convinced it was the rings as well because they would come out destroyed in the BCG, but a different bolt would short stroke as well. It was on PMC ammo and a new rifle, so possibly not broken in well, or the PMC simply didnt cycle well in the DPMS. I ended up buying a new BCG and never had that problem again. Try another BCG, at least you can rule out the AR itself |
|
Try another BCG group. If no success take the FSB off to see if the gas tube(installed) hole is lined up in the center of the gas port in the housing. I recently had a front sight base with a misdrilled gas tube retainer pin hole. The malfunctions you are having sounds similar to what I expierence. Only
about 50% of the gas was making to the rings. Adjusting the ring may be giving you enough gas to function until they line up again. Check gas tube for a tight fit at FSB as they leak gas. You didn't state the weapons mileage new or used. |
|
Had this on a service m4 once. found a sliver of brass wedged in the gas key when we took it off. This was after checking the alignment of the gas tube, cleaning it with carb cleaner, taking off the fsb and checking the hole, yada yada yada. also have seen junkmaster bcg's that were not chrome lines (where the bolt goes in) and seen them wear almost egg shaped (only on one that have well over 6k rounds through it.
I'd also run the 4.4oz carrier (chrome lined), as that is how armalite designed it in the first place. But I'd check that gas key for a brass splinter. In mine it was changing position every once in a while and yes it did kick my ass til i figured it out. my 2.5 pennies. |
|
Technically the rifle should have functioned with two gas rings. The fact that you are having problems when the gas rings line up tells me you have a gas leak somewhere else. The broken gas ring could be a symptom of something else as well. I had a Bushmaster acting very similar and broke a gas ring. Check for hair line crack on the neck of the bolt. It will be very very hard to see. It is a very rare place for a bolt to crack. But that is what happened to the one I was having problems with.
Also check the head of the gas tube (the part that goes into the gas key) , there should be a noticeable head and the wear should be even all the way around it. |
| The gaps in the gas rings get smaller than what they look like when the bolt is out of the carrier.Once the bolt is inside the carrier the rings compress anyway providing tension and making a seal the gap thats left is probaly as thin as a hair..gaps do not matter and ive been building fixing and shooting them 18 years. |
|
Quoted:
The gaps in the gas rings get smaller than what they look like when the bolt is out of the carrier.Once the bolt is inside the carrier the rings compress anyway providing tension and making a seal the gap thats left is probaly as thin as a hair..gaps do not matter and ive been building fixing and shooting them 18 years. bingo |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
i have had guns run on 1 gas ring. the "line up" is a myth. same here they even tell people in the colt armorers class now they do not need to be aligned. having to replace one ring already should have told you something...... on a normal well made rifle, lining them up doesnt matter you got other problems. You both lie.... It does make a difference when they line up in the right position, however you will find the gun works. When have you gone through the colt armorers class? Ir was it your uncles, buddies, mother in laws cousin? wow we are both liars? you know so much about us thats amazing! 
yes a god gun will run on one ring yes colt armorers classes teach that. calthe factory or SAW and ask for your self. both of these FACTS has been confirmed multiple times, I guess not by a genius with your level of experience though so maybe all of those guys are lying too, hel maybe colts lying even, |
|
Quoted:
.. Whats the deal here folks? Anyone else had thi problem? Broken rings are a problem. Aligned rings are not. A properly built rifle can function on 1 ring, 3 is redunancy. On all rifle the gaps periodically light up - they are constantly rotating as the bolt moves in and out of the bolt carrier during functioning. It's not a problem. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Gas rings keep lining up!! (Page 1 of 2)
AR Sponsor