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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Major Carbine Course Failure (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 11/18/2009 3:12:13 AM EDT
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I found this on another forum, Marlin Owners, and just wanted to share it here. This is NOT to bash Colt in anyway but to serve as a lesson to always expect the unexpected when shooting.
Here's a link to the whole story on Marlin Owners. http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,54654.0.html A small part of the text; I switched the ACOG to the Colt and got on the firing line. The drill was firing from the urban prone, weapon side position. We loaded and made ready and I waited for the threat command. When the threat command came I went into the urban prone position and fired. On the second round the upper receiver blew apart. It took a few seconds for me to get oriented and realize what had just happened. I checked to see that there wasn’t another round in the chamber and raised my hand to let Travis know there was a problem. The 6920 is on its way to Colt Manufacturing for analysis as of this posting. I will certainly post the results of the analysis as well as the resolution when that information is available. I would appreciate it if the wild guesses as to the cause of this failure were withheld until Colt Manufacturing has had a chance to check it out. I will give a few facts that will help to keep the conjecture to a minimum. The barrel was clear before and after the event and the ammo used was factory XM193. I don't know if the brass was ejected, it appeared to be, however, there could have been part of the brass case left in the chamber, I was too busy trying to get back to training to check, then the gun went via FEDEX to Colt before I had the chance to check because I was trying to catch up on all of the work I had neglected while out running and gunning. A couple of the pics, more at the OP on Marlin Owners. 
ETA; a few more pics. 
Be careful out there. |
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first round was a squib and he fired the second round into it without realizing. First if all, I am also glad nobody was hurt. I also believe this was the issue seeing the OP said the barrel was clear. My guess is that most of the pressure went through the gas tube and back into the receiver rather than pushing the bullets down range. The bullets may have cleared the barrel but not before blowing up the gun. I hope Colt does right by you and doesn't place blame on the ammo. Certainly nothing wrong with the brand. |
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first round was a squib and he fired the second round into it without realizing. First if all, I am also glad nobody was hurt. I also believe this was the issue seeing the OP said the barrel was clear. My guess is that most of the pressure went through the gas tube and back into the receiver rather than pushing the bullets down range. The bullets may have cleared the barrel but not before blowing up the gun. I hope Colt does right by you and doesn't place blame on the ammo. Certainly nothing wrong with the brand. I'm not following you. You think it was a squib, which is ammo related, but you hope Colt doesn't place blame on the ammo? Am I misunderstanding you? |
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first round was a squib and he fired the second round into it without realizing. First if all, I am also glad nobody was hurt. I also believe this was the issue seeing the OP said the barrel was clear. My guess is that most of the pressure went through the gas tube and back into the receiver rather than pushing the bullets down range. The bullets may have cleared the barrel but not before blowing up the gun. I hope Colt does right by you and doesn't place blame on the ammo. Certainly nothing wrong with the brand. I'm not following you. You think it was a squib, which is ammo related, but you hope Colt doesn't place blame on the ammo? Am I misunderstanding you? I did not understand that either, how is Colt responsible for a squib load? |
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I'm not real happy about having 2800 rounds of XM193 ammo to shoot in mine. Send it to me, then. I'll risk it. 
This KB is enough to make your head spin - first off it's a Colt, and second, it was using ammo that everyone considers to be the "good stuff" for everything from plinking to zombies. |
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sadly these thing happen...
I remember someone posting pics over M4C.net of a USGI M4 in Iraq or Astan that KBed with M855... 
Colt or Oly, AR or AK, it doesnt matter...bad ammo is bad ammo 
question: could this be caused by a incorrect headspace? I dont want to start a flame about Colt's QC etc. it's just a simple question. |
Glad no one was hurt... to bad about the rifle but it is better then your face looking like that. I bet the ammo was leftover Vietcong ammo that was planted by our GI's during the Vietnam war and you got one of those CIA rounds that blow up.  Without examing the rifle all we can do is speculate so here is what I think happened... As you fired the weapon Jupiter, Saturn and the sun all lined up directly in line with that rifle and with their combined gravitational forces acting on the rifle all at the same time as you fired it tore open the rifle.
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Quoted: Quoted: I'm not real happy about having 2800 rounds of XM193 ammo to shoot in mine. Send it to me, then. I'll risk it. This KB is enough to make your head spin - first off it's a Colt, and second, it was using ammo that everyone considers to be the "good stuff" for everything from plinking to zombies. There was a batch of, I think, xm193 that was blowing up guns maybe 5 years ago, I think it was marked "PD" Supposedly Blackwater had a ton of it and stopped using it after it caused some problems. |
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I'm not real happy about having 2800 rounds of XM193 ammo to shoot in mine. Send it to me, then. I'll risk it.
This KB is enough to make your head spin - first off it's a Colt, and second, it was using ammo that everyone considers to be the "good stuff" for everything from plinking to zombies. Exactly, this isn't the first one to go boom with XM193 lately. All of my XM193 is older stuff, Lot 013 (LC 2002) and Lot 083 (LC 2004) brown box. Hopefully it doesn't have any problems. Something like this can ruin your day. 
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When you have a squib round, the action generally needs to be cycled manually to load the next round. The round that squibbed is in no way going to be powerful enough to cycle the action for you.
If he had "cleared" the weapon prior to the incident, I'll buy that explanation, however, it really looks like it fired (severely) out of battery as evidenced by the carrier splitting downward (the weakest point) and the extractor bowing outwards (as would be indicative of it being unsupported by the locking lug chamber). Ouchie. |
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First if all, I am also glad nobody was hurt. I also believe this was the issue seeing the OP said the barrel was clear. My guess is that most of the pressure went through the gas tube and back into the receiver rather than pushing the bullets down range. The bullets may have cleared the barrel but not before blowing up the gun. I hope Colt does right by you and doesn't place blame on the ammo. Certainly nothing wrong with the brand. Fucking really? Lets clear up some misconceptions of yours..... First, there is no way enough gas will get back into the gun through the gas tube to do SHIT to the rifle like this. Second, XM193 is factory seconds. If it weren't, it would simply be M193. Period. There has been large lots of XM193 that have caused issues, most notibly with a local PD in my neck of the woods that couldn't get it to zero for shit on the dept. issued guns, and one round wouldn't cycle the gun while the next one was at the pressure load limit and so on. Pull your head out of your ass before you make statements like this. |
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First if all, I am also glad nobody was hurt. I also believe this was the issue seeing the OP said the barrel was clear. My guess is that most of the pressure went through the gas tube and back into the receiver rather than pushing the bullets down range. The bullets may have cleared the barrel but not before blowing up the gun. I hope Colt does right by you and doesn't place blame on the ammo. Certainly nothing wrong with the brand. Fucking really? Lets clear up some misconceptions of yours..... First, there is no way enough gas will get back into the gun through the gas tube to do SHIT to the rifle like this. Second, XM193 is factory seconds. If it weren't, it would simply be M193. Period. There has been large lots of XM193 that have caused issues, most notibly with a local PD in my neck of the woods that couldn't get it to zero for shit on the dept. issued guns, and one round wouldn't cycle the gun while the next one was at the pressure load limit and so on. Pull your head out of your ass before you make statements like this. Damn you really are Grumpy.......
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So what can I do to check my XM193 ammo? Is it a heavy charge of powder causing this? Weigh all 2800 rounds?  
I want to think the odds are in my favour that it won't happen. Always wear good eye-pro and don’t shoot reloads that you didn’t load… stick to factory ammo and don’t worry so much. And try to pay attention for a round that doesn’t sound / feel right just in case. You have a better chance of getting struck by lightning than you do getting double loaded factory ammo from reputable manufacturers. |
| If you've got older XM193, I'm sure it's fine. Generally, it was the PD stuff that someone mentioned that was causing the problems. I don't think I have any XM193 that's less than 3 years old, and it's all the brown-boxed stuff that you were mentioning you had. I *think* it was the bulk-packed XM193PD that was the problem. |
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first round was a squib and he fired the second round into it without realizing. First if all, I am also glad nobody was hurt. I also believe this was the issue seeing the OP said the barrel was clear. My guess is that most of the pressure went through the gas tube and back into the receiver rather than pushing the bullets down range. The bullets may have cleared the barrel but not before blowing up the gun. I hope Colt does right by you and doesn't place blame on the ammo. Certainly nothing wrong with the brand. You don't know shit about rifles do you? First of all your guess is nonsensical, and second an ammunition related failure is not the firearm or the firearm manufacturer's fault.
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Lot of people in this thread who obviously don't know the causes and effects of KBs. Gun did not fire out of battery and its extremely doubtful that it was a squib.
And Colt had nothing to do with this. Bet he's glad he wasn't using a magwell grip with his thumb up there on the side of the receiver. |
| i posted earlier that i thought it was unlikely that there was a squib, but i do agree now that its equally not likely that it fired out of battery, bad ammo and bad luck. id be interested in seeing if the barrel was buldged or if it was simply case failure due to a overcharged round . guess after that youd have to consider weather or not the bolt failed itself. i dont know how ammo related damage would be handled by colt , most likely it would have to be repaired at owners expense. if it is ammo related and colt backs it up anyway my next ar will be a colt. |
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Well, in my defense I said it might be crap science. And yes, it is contradictory to blame the ammo and hoping the Colt would do something about it.
So my bad for typing a post that was obviously WRONG! But it has to be better than waking up and seeing a douche-bag in the mirror every morning.
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I don't know why people on here are under the impression that XM193 is good ammo or even ammo worth stockpiling. Pat Rogers has spoken of numerous incidents in classes where XM193 has had serious problems. I must have missed those reports, can you give a link? There was a thread earlier about a PD having blown primers and other high pressure signs with XM193, I think it turned out the rifles (not Colt) had .223 chambers but were marked 5.56
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....using ammo that everyone considers to be the "good stuff" for everything from plinking to zombies. As far back as 2006 we were seeing ammo failures of XM193 in carbine classes. The early white boxed XM193 was okay, the brown boxed was crap, the bulk pack was even worse. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Major Carbine Course Failure (Page 1 of 3)
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