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Posted: 10/19/2009 6:06:34 PM EDT
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What advantages do Billet Receivers have over standard forged receivers? Are they just overkill for 2X the money?
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They look nice and the integrated triggerguard looks cool. I have never broken a lower, so until I do I just don't see the point in spending that much on a lower. Especially when you can buy three or four decent lowers for the price of one. Do you like them? If you do and can justify the expense.... go for it 
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They look nice and the integrated triggerguard looks cool. I have never broken a lower, so until I do I just don't see the point in spending that much on a lower. Especially when you can buy three or four decent lowers for the price of one. Do you like them?  If you do and can justify the expense.... go for it I have the impression that the billet receiver would most likely break on you first before the forged one will. What grade is the billet receiver? 60XX or 70XX?. Microstructure? Having said that, I am not at all insinuating that the billet receiver WILL break on you, I am just saying that given the same circumstances, the billet receiver would probably break first before the forged one will. |
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i beleive billet is stronger than forged although forged is more than strong enough for an ar. i think you could make a lower out of plastic and it would work and be reliable. you could probably make one out of wood and get a few rounds through it. I have a goal in life... Where's my dremel? |
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i beleive billet is stronger than forged although forged is more than strong enough for an ar. i think you could make a lower out of plastic and it would work and be reliable. you could probably make one out of wood and get a few rounds through it. How is that so?  Is the billet receiver heat treated just like the forged one? The "T" behind the grade designation is the heat treating schedule (ETA: and cold working IIRC if applies). Forging also affords grain refinement through recovery and recrystallization that can be controlled through the finishing temperature, which raw billets do not have. I wonder if anybody has the micrograph of billet Vs. forged receivers - at least do some Vickers hardness on them. And no, I will not etch aluminum - I am not touching HF.
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i beleive billet is stronger than forged although forged is more than strong enough for an ar. i think you could make a lower out of plastic and it would work and be reliable. you could probably make one out of wood and get a few rounds through it. Wrong. All else being equal, forged is stronger than billet. This has been discussed on the board before. You are paying more money for looks not performance. You see service rifles made of billet? No. |
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i beleive billet is stronger than forged although forged is more than strong enough for an ar. i think you could make a lower out of plastic and it would work and be reliable. you could probably make one out of wood and get a few rounds through it. Wrong. All else being equal, forged is stronger than billet. This has been discussed on the board before. You are paying more money for looks not performance. You see service rifles made of billet? No. C'mon, brother! Be nice! Second post and you already like to prove people wrong?  But I am 99% sure that you are correct. Unless if my information is outdated and I have no problem being corrected. Heck, if I had one dollar for each time I've been proven wrong, I'd be a multi gazzilionaire by now. 
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i beleive billet is stronger than forged although forged is more than strong enough for an ar. i think you could make a lower out of plastic and it would work and be reliable. you could probably make one out of wood and get a few rounds through it. Vulcan tried it and didn't work. But maybe that's because it's Vulcan  .
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They look nice and the integrated triggerguard looks cool. I have never broken a lower, so until I do I just don't see the point in spending that much on a lower. Especially when you can buy three or four decent lowers for the price of one. Do you like them? If you do and can justify the expense.... go for it I have the impression that the billet receiver would most likely break on you first before the forged one will. What grade is the billet receiver? 60XX or 70XX?. Microstructure? Having said that, I am not at all insinuating that the billet receiver WILL break on you, I am just saying that given the same circumstances, the billet receiver would probably break first before the forged one will. I have seen pics of lowers broken where the reciever extension goes. None of them were billet.... I think you may have it backwards. I'm no expert though. I could certainly be mistaken
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i beleive billet is stronger than forged although forged is more than strong enough for an ar. i think you could make a lower out of plastic and it would work and be reliable. you could probably make one out of wood and get a few rounds through it. You would be wrong, period. This subject has been discussed ad nauseam. Please do a quick search and educate yourself. |
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They look nice and the integrated triggerguard looks cool. I have never broken a lower, so until I do I just don't see the point in spending that much on a lower. Especially when you can buy three or four decent lowers for the price of one. Do you like them? If you do and can justify the expense.... go for it I have the impression that the billet receiver would most likely break on you first before the forged one will. What grade is the billet receiver? 60XX or 70XX?. Microstructure? Having said that, I am not at all insinuating that the billet receiver WILL break on you, I am just saying that given the same circumstances, the billet receiver would probably break first before the forged one will. I have seen pics of lowers broken where the reciever extension goes. None of them were billet.... I think you may have it backwards. I'm no expert though. I could certainly be mistaken
Hmm.....without more information about those lowers and under what circumstances they failed, I really don't think we could draw a conclusion that billet receivers are stronger than those that are forged. Unless if you knew something that I don't. |
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Believe what you like, dont believe me since I have only two posts (as that has something to do with it) and do a search on the internet on metal processes, buy a book or go to the library and do the research. The question shouldnt really be forged or billet but what type and grade of steel. You can have a billet part stronger than a forged part if the billet part is a superior steel. But all things being equal forged is stronger than billet. Below is a link where this has been discussed before.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=410640 |
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Quoted: Quoted: i beleive billet is stronger than forged although forged is more than strong enough for an ar. i think you could make a lower out of plastic and it would work and be reliable. you could probably make one out of wood and get a few rounds through it. I have a goal in life... Where's my dremel? Someone did... I don't think it made it past mag #1 |
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i beleive billet is stronger than forged although forged is more than strong enough for an ar. i think you could make a lower out of plastic and it would work and be reliable. you could probably make one out of wood and get a few rounds through it. It's already been done. Here's the wood lower. 
Test firing...Yes, he actually shot it, and it worked...For a couple rounds. 
Later he tried a reciever made from plastic. Not Vulcan plastic, but pieces cut out of a cutting board and laminated together. 
Here's a vid of the cutting board AR being test fired. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3chSzLxPuzU Here's a link to the build thread for both over at Weaponeer.net. http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8035&PN=1 So, how ballsy are ya? Willing to make your own reciever from scratch out of a material that no one else would even consider?
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Believe what you like, dont believe me since I have only two posts (as that has something to do with it) and do a search on the internet on metal processes, buy a book or go to the library and do the research. The question shouldnt really be forged or billet but what type and grade of steel. You can have a billet part stronger than a forged part if the billet part is a superior steel. But all things being equal forged is stronger than billet. Below is a link where this has been discussed before. http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=410640 Dude, I was (am) agreeing with you. LOL! I was a metallurgical engineer. ETA: I THINK the "dont believe me since I have only two posts (as that has something to do with it)" remark was directed at me. If not, my bad for responding.
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i beleive billet is stronger than forged although forged is more than strong enough for an ar. i think you could make a lower out of plastic and it would work and be reliable. you could probably make one out of wood and get a few rounds through it. It's already been done. Here's the wood lower. http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/uploads/orionshammer/images/2008-09-21_170925_01_fgc_holes.jpg http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/uploads/orionshammer/images/2008-10-01_030521_03_success.jpg Test firing...Yes, he actually shot it, and it worked...For a couple rounds. http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/uploads/orionshammer/images/2008-10- Later he tried a reciever made from plastic. Not Vulcan plastic, but pieces cut out of a cutting board and laminated together. http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/uploads/orionshammer/images/2008-10-28_020250_5_magwell2.jpg http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/uploads/orionshammer/images/2008-10-28_021225_8_assembled.jpg Here's a vid of the cutting board AR being test fired. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3chSzLxPuzU Here's a link to the build thread for both over at Weaponeer.net. http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8035&PN=1 So, how ballsy are ya? Willing to make your own reciever from scratch out of a material that no one else would even consider?
That's pretty cool!!! |
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And the reason is????
Aluminum racing components (like rods) are billet for a reason.......... Cheaper and easier to produce a near perfectly trued product with acceptable strength. If done right, forging will produce a "stronger" product. As far as ARs go, I think the issue of "strength" is pretty damn moot. |
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The broken lowers people are seeing are generally either cast or plastic. Neither one works well in a standard AR lower configuration. CavArms made plastic work by redesigning the lower. Forged and billet are both plenty strong enough. Billet affords more options, like integral trigger guards, gated magazine releases, and crazy magwells. You could forge that stuff, but start up costs for forging are too prohibitive. When you're making something like that in small quantities, it's easier to do more machining on a billet. |
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i beleive billet is stronger than forged although forged is more than strong enough for an ar. i think you could make a lower out of plastic and it would work and be reliable. you could probably make one out of wood and get a few rounds through it. Vulcan tried it and didn't work. But maybe that's because it's Vulcan .
Cavalry Arms |
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Aluminum racing components (like rods) are billet for a reason.......... Proving you can find exactly the same argument with all the exact same comments all over the web! I'll just add that in my 40+ year history of building my own racing engines, the only engine that ever went on the track without forged rods was a Mazda 13B. Like an AR15, when a racing engine kabooms, it's a bad thing. (Gratuitous on-topic addition) |
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They look nice and the integrated triggerguard looks cool. I have never broken a lower, so until I do I just don't see the point in spending that much on a lower. Especially when you can buy three or four decent lowers for the price of one. Do you like them? If you do and can justify the expense.... go for it I have the impression that the billet receiver would most likely break on you first before the forged one will. What grade is the billet receiver? 60XX or 70XX?. Microstructure? Having said that, I am not at all insinuating that the billet receiver WILL break on you, I am just saying that given the same circumstances, the billet receiver would probably break first before the forged one will. I have seen pics of lowers broken where the reciever extension goes. None of them were billet.... I think you may have it backwards. I'm no expert though. I could certainly be mistaken
Hmm.....without more information about those lowers and under what circumstances they failed, I really don't think we could draw a conclusion that billet receivers are stronger than those that are forged. Unless if you knew something that I don't. LHGN, As far as the broken lowers, I don't know why or how they failed, but they were forged. I would assume that some of them were from the users firing the weapon without a buffer and spring in them.... ooops. However, I did some research to satisfy my curiosity and forged lowers are stronger than billet lowers, just like you stated and I was mistaken  That being said, I will just keep buying Tactical Machining forged lowers and leave the billet to everyone else. Billet lowers are pretty though... 
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Either method, forged or billet (forged 7075) will work fine, and give you a lifelong weapon. My gosh, I am wondering if this is really a forged versus billet issue, or a I spent less then you vs I spent more than you issue. Seeing as how it is known 7075 Forged will last indefinitely, I pick the fit and finish of billet. Put me in a situation calling for a weapon (and mine is not with me), and i am picking up whatever is within reach, forged, billet or cast. Could care less. |
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