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Posted: 10/19/2009 5:02:19 PM EDT
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I have a complete 16" upper by CMMG that shoots WAAAAAYYY to the right. I am three clicks from being max out on the rear sight.
Bought last fall from AIM. Recently completed the build. Does this sound in spec? |
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These threads always get me.
Rarely is the problem an actual "canted FSB". More often then not, it's a case of the barrel being twisted inside the upper reciever. There's usually some amount of play in the barrel index pin slot on the upper reciever and if there is and the barrel in its entirety is canted to one side when the barrel is torqued on, it will cause an issue like this, but not to the extreme that was listed in the OP. If this is an issue AND the barrel was over torqued without the proper use of an anti-sieze grease, the barrel nut can grab and over-torque the barrel index pin in the index pin slot in the upper and cause this issue to be really bad. In these situations, when the barrel nut is removed and the upper reciever index pin slot and threads are inspected, it won't even seem like that big of a deal, but when you look at the amount of variance of movement that even that little extra dent in the pin slot allows, you'll see that it is a big deal. The most likely explination if the gun is shooting to the right is either that the barrel index pin slot was was machined too wide and probably to one side, or that it was in fact over torqued and caused the barrel to spin in the upper reciever and allowed the steel index pin to press into the soft aluminum of the upper reciever. The "best" solution is to have them change out your upper reciever and use your old barrel with the exception that they build it right this time, or, if you don't want to fuck with sending it back, place the upper in an AR15 armorers reciver block, then take a small handled screw driver and stick the handle portion through the triangle hole in the FSB so there is no metal to metal contact (A steel rod wrapped in leather works too), and then gently torque the barrel counter clockwise (as you're looking at the muzzle, down the barrel towards the reciver, or clock-wise if you're loooking down the sights from the reciever towards the muzzle). You don't have to use a lot of force, and go gently, slowly increasing force until it "pops". Once it does this, STOP. Don't force it again as you'll have just reset the index pin in the index pin slot proper. Good luck with whichever avenue you choose to fix this. |
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Quoted:
Please forward a copy of the email to us along with a link. If this is three clicks from max I want to get it back and get it repaired or replaced. I forwarded a copy of the e-mail in question to you last night. Did you receive? How do you suggest I proceed? |
| Didn't see email in the inbox, did you send this to [email protected]? |
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Ten 4.
Garson e-mailed me earlier explaining I should receive an e-mail tonight with a UPS shipping label. I understand things happen and appreciate the fact that to some degree we are moving forward. I am not asking for anything special, or extra, I simply want to get the barrell/receiver/etc. working properly. thx |
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Quoted:
Got the email and got to the bottom of what happened. We had a well meaning individual jump in and answer the email incorrectly(noob). Question for CMMG or any manufacturer really. With the economy the way it is there are tons of people out of work, including people that likely know your product line as well as you do or at least have vast experiance on the AR15 platform. Why do gun companies continue to hire inexperianced "noobs?" It seems like now is a once in a decade opportunity to grab good talent cheap. I know sales is sales, after all my friend went from selling bikinis to selling supressors. But wouldnt now be a great time to start building an expert staff for the future? Or are gun sales so good right now that people with those sklill sets are all already working? What am i missing? |
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Quoted:
In spite of the slow down, we are still growing. Thus the noobs  We love the noobs, they are the ones that get all the crappy tasks and they are fun to pick on
To the OP, I apologize again for the hassle, I do intend to make it up to you. Good people, those folks at CMMG. |
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I thought I would update everyone regarding the status of my upper.
––WED the 21st I received an e-mail notification from CMMG. They had forwarded me a UPS shipping label to return the upper for eval. I returned the upper to CMMG. ––CMMG received the upper on FRI the 23rd. ––I phoned last TH the 28th to inquire about the situation. Left a message for Repair Dept. ––I received a call on TH the 29th. Eric (NOOB mentioned earlier) stated that he would be shipping out a replacement upper on either TH or FRI. The FSB was off. ––The brown truck left a package today. After dinner I opened the package to inspect. I found a brand new complete upper, my BCG, and some random BUSTED ASS charging handle (not the one I returned, I know because I marked both the BCG and CH). The CH latch is either out of spec or bent. The latch will not lock up when the charging handle is released bringing the bolt into battery. I appreciate the fact that CMMG evaluated and replaced an obvious defective product. On the other hand I wish they had either returned my CH, or one that worked. My hope of taking my rifle out to the range this week to zero will now have to wait! This is starting to become irritating! I realize these folks are busy, but damn! Is it too much to ask for someone to verify parts are functional before shipping out, especially a replacement? I returned a functional upper (albeit didn't shoot to sight). What I received in replacement is in no way functional, nor in spec. FWIW. ????? |
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Quoted:
I thought I would update everyone regarding the status of my upper. ––WED the 21st I received an e-mail notification from CMMG. They had forwarded me a UPS shipping label to return the upper for eval. I returned the upper to CMMG. ––CMMG received the upper on FRI the 23rd. ––I phoned last TH the 28th to inquire about the situation. Left a message for Repair Dept. ––I received a call on TH the 29th. Eric (NOOB mentioned earlier) stated that he would be shipping out a replacement upper on either TH or FRI. The FSB was off. ––The brown truck left a package today. After dinner I opened the package to inspect. I found a brand new complete upper, my BCG, and some random BUSTED ASS charging handle (not the one I returned, I know because I marked both the BCG and CH). The CH latch is either out of spec or bent. The latch will not lock up when the charging handle is released bringing the bolt into battery. I appreciate the fact that CMMG evaluated and replaced an obvious defective product. On the other hand I wish they had either returned my CH, or one that worked. My hope of taking my rifle out to the range this week to zero will now have to wait! This is starting to become irritating! I realize these folks are busy, but damn! Is it too much to ask for someone to verify parts are functional before shipping out, especially a replacement? I returned a functional upper (albeit didn't shoot to sight). What I received in replacement is in no way functional, nor in spec. FWIW. ????? Call CMMG, they will probably next day you a new CH for the trouble, then throw away the crap one. |
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I will be placing a call in the AM. Hopefully we can get this resolved soon. :)
First response received from <[email protected]> October 1, 2009 11:39:56 AM. |
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Will this cause any functional problems? I've got two CMMG mid-length uppers, and both of them exhibited this problem to a certain extent. Not to within 3 clicks of the max, but the rear sight is definitely adjusted rather far to one side on each of them. I've got them zeroed, and have just learned to live with it. They both seem to run fine, and I've put hundreds of rounds down range with very few problems (needed to put some o-rings over the extractor springs on each of them to fix some FTEs, but other than the BCG issues they've run fine). I'm not up for sending them back unless this a serious issue that will cause problems down the road as the round count increases... |
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Quoted: BE, Out of spec is out of spec. I shouldn't have to "live with it". btw we are dealing with a new issue currently. I completely agree with you. I've seen your updates. If I could go back in time to when I had just gotten my uppers last fall I would have probably just turned around and sent them right back. But now I've got them zeroed, function tested, and I've learned to trust mine, so I (personally) decided to just keep mine. Hopefully they get this new issued straightened out as well. |
| I'm not knocking CMMG, because they used to put out a great rifle a few years ago when few options were available in 1/7. However, these constant problems with many of the manufacturers and vendors is why I deal almost exclusively with BCM products and BravocompanyUSA. Paul knows what he's selling and only sells quality products. |
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I appreciate the concern.
I'll be honest, I simply want to get this resolved ASAP! Maybe I am wrong, but the more I think about this, the more P'd off I get. I should clarify. Things happen. Taper pin holes and FSB can be installed incorrectly. However, a charging handle is a relatively low tech apparatus. Someone that (1.) knows what they are doing/working with and (2.) gives half a shit shouldn't have sent out an upper with a jacked up CH. JMO |
| I have a CMMG mid length myself. I ran about 200 rounds to break it in and it had a few jams with some Silver Bear. I replaced the BCG with a BCM and the receiver with a Vltor MUR, no problems with any ammo at all. I like the upper a lot and mine is dead on accurate, my FSB is correctly installed. |
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"The CH latch is either out of spec or bent. The latch will not lock up when the charging handle is released bringing the bolt into battery."
Couple quick questions. If it was bent you should be able to see if it is bent. Maybe I'm just out of it this morning but what does that mean when you say it won't lock up when released? Can you press it in after charging and make it lock up? Does it lock up if you cycle it with bolt charged? Does it stop short when charging? |
What is the latest? I guess others misfortune makes for great entertainment. (Sorry) FWIW, I have a CMG upper and it works great, but in retrospect, I think that I should have got a different brand that I can have 100% confidence in. Sending it back with a busted CH is just wrong. I hope they make it up to you.
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I e-mailed CMMG and asked politely if they would refund my purchase. I obligated to return the upper at my expense. The response I received was whatever will make me happy, they will do. CMMG e-mailed me back after the initial response offering to send me a CH, as well as a 22-LR kit if I would keep the upper. The offer is very generous.
I have been in Chicago all week on work and haven't had the opportunity to communicate my intentions to CMMG. I intend to return the upper for a refund. On a lighter note. Today I took my 7 year old son to the rifle range and introduced him to the J.C. Higgins bolt action .22 my grandfather gave me when I was 7-8 years old. He had a great time. He was board with the 30 minute safety lecture on the way to the range and the first 15 mins there. I told him the rifle was his when he learned how to handle safely. He was thrilled. :) |
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