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7/30/2009 4:23:27 PM EDT
Just got home from the range a bit ago.  I put about 200 rounds through the AR, most of it running speed reload drills.  On five or 6 of my reloads I had a minor issue.  After the last shot, the bolt locked to the rear, as it should.  However, when I dropped the magazine, the bolt went forward, causing me to have to charge the rifle using the charging handle after inserting the new mag.

The only things I can think of are a bad bolt catch or a dirty bolt catch.  I made sure to clean the bolt catch and the slot it sits in really well when I came home.  Any other ideas as to what the issue might be?
7/30/2009 4:25:06 PM EDT
[#1]
I would bet the bolt didn't lock all the way to the rear, instead the bolt catch got caught up in the gap where the carrier ends and the bolt begins, Ive had it happen before.
7/30/2009 4:29:36 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
I would bet the bolt didn't lock all the way to the rear, instead the bolt catch got caught up in the gap where the carrier ends and the bolt begins, Ive had it happen before.


What causes that?
7/30/2009 4:31:43 PM EDT
[#3]
Why do AR people post every time they have a malfunction?
7/30/2009 4:32:53 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Why do AR people post every time they have a malfunction?


I'd like to know what may have been the cause so I can fix it.

What the fuck?  
7/30/2009 4:36:08 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why do AR people post every time they have a malfunction?


I'd like to know what may have been the cause so I can fix it.

What the fuck?  

It's only a problem if it happens consistently.

7/30/2009 4:36:52 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why do AR people post every time they have a malfunction?


I'd like to know what may have been the cause so I can fix it.

What the fuck?  

It's only a problem if it happens consistently.



Sorry I'll get your permission next time before I ask a question.

I did about 25 reloads and it happened at least 5 times.  That's consistent enough for me to want to know how to fix it.
7/30/2009 4:39:18 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why do AR people post every time they have a malfunction?


I'd like to know what may have been the cause so I can fix it.

What the fuck?  

It's only a problem if it happens consistently.



Sorry I'll get your permission next time before I ask a question.

I did about 25 reloads and it happened at least 5 times.  That's consistent enough for me to want to know how to fix it.

EDIT:nevermind Sorry I  read it wrong.

7/30/2009 4:41:38 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why do AR people post every time they have a malfunction?


I'd like to know what may have been the cause so I can fix it.

What the fuck?  

It's only a problem if it happens consistently.



If you have nothing valuable to add, don't post.

OP: was it always the last round of the mag?  What ammo?
7/30/2009 4:51:29 PM EDT
[#9]
Yep, always the last round.  Hand loads for the first few times it happened.  Then I switched to factory ammo.  Still happened a few more times.

Running PMAGs, by the way.  Happened with three different ones.
7/30/2009 4:56:20 PM EDT
[#10]
I've had more problems with bolt not locking to the rear with PMags than with regular aluminum mags in several of my rifles.
7/30/2009 4:58:10 PM EDT
[#11]
I can't believe I forgot to add this.  This was the first time I'd been out with my new upper.  It did happen ONE time a few months ago with my LaRue upper.  Upper is an LMT.
7/30/2009 5:00:00 PM EDT
[#12]
I vote short stroking.

Probably weak ammo.
7/30/2009 5:00:15 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Yep, always the last round.  Hand loads for the first few times it happened.  Then I switched to factory ammo.  Still happened a few more times.

Running PMAGs, by the way.  Happened with three different ones.


And the bolt catch looks ok?  Wonder if it could be short stroking?

ETA: was it the same ammo that you were using with the LT upper?
7/30/2009 5:02:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Its nothing really to get your panties in a bundle about.

Hell my rifle even does it every now and then.
7/30/2009 5:02:21 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yep, always the last round.  Hand loads for the first few times it happened.  Then I switched to factory ammo.  Still happened a few more times.

Running PMAGs, by the way.  Happened with three different ones.


And the bolt catch looks ok?  Wonder if it could be short stroking?

ETA: was it the same ammo that you were using with the LT upper?


Yep, same stuff.

ETA: If it were short stroking, wouldn't I be having problems during strings of fire too, not always on the last round from the mag?
7/30/2009 5:03:02 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yep, always the last round.  Hand loads for the first few times it happened.  Then I switched to factory ammo.  Still happened a few more times.

Running PMAGs, by the way.  Happened with three different ones.


And the bolt catch looks ok?  Wonder if it could be short stroking?

ETA: was it the same ammo that you were using with the LT upper?


Yep, same stuff.

Which is what?

7/30/2009 5:04:11 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yep, always the last round.  Hand loads for the first few times it happened.  Then I switched to factory ammo.  Still happened a few more times.

Running PMAGs, by the way.  Happened with three different ones.


And the bolt catch looks ok?  Wonder if it could be short stroking?

ETA: was it the same ammo that you were using with the LT upper?


Yep, same stuff.

Which is what?



Handloads and Black Hills.  Happened with both.  So it's not my handloading skills lacking.  

7/30/2009 5:04:18 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Its nothing really to get your panties in a bundle about.

Hell my rifle even does it every now and then.


Why the fuck do people feel the need to make comments like this?  We are trying to diagnose a problem and you aren't helping, so shut up.
7/30/2009 5:07:58 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Yep, always the last round.  Hand loads for the first few times it happened.  Then I switched to factory ammo.  Still happened a few more times.

Running PMAGs, by the way.  Happened with three different ones.


And the bolt catch looks ok?  Wonder if it could be short stroking?

ETA: was it the same ammo that you were using with the LT upper?


Yep, same stuff.

Which is what?



Handloads and Black Hills.  Happened with both.  So it's not my handloading skills lacking.  



And it was the same lower that caused it to happen with black hills ammo on both uppers?  If so, I vote something is wrong with the bolt catch.
ETA: OH yeah, what length gas system on both and what kind of buffers?
7/30/2009 5:08:52 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its nothing really to get your panties in a bundle about.

Hell my rifle even does it every now and then.


Why the fuck do people feel the need to make comments like this?  We are trying to diagnose a problem and you aren't helping, so shut up.


I have posted two other times saying that its probably a short stroking issue and or weak ammo.

And the reason that the bolt closes when he ejects the mag is because the bolt catch didnt catch the bolt, it caught the end of the carrier where the bolt sticks out.

The problem is diagnosed and there is nothing else to do but shoot the rifle again with some quality 5.56 and see if it continues.

I was not being an ass, its just a very small issue that will more than likely be fixed with full power ammo.
7/30/2009 5:09:43 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its nothing really to get your panties in a bundle about.

Hell my rifle even does it every now and then.


Why the fuck do people feel the need to make comments like this?  We are trying to diagnose a problem and you aren't helping, so shut up.


Agreed.  God fucking forbid I want to know what possible causes could be and how to go about resolving it.  I want my rifle to work properly.  I must be retarded.

Just to provide all relevant details: CAR gas system, CAR buffer (I have an H, didn't try it).  Only happened on the last round.  Didn't try any aluminum mags (don't own any, just PMAGs), this was the first time out with this upper.  

So far bad bolt catch and short stroking are the options.  Still wondering why it would only happen on the last round if it were short stroking, however.
7/30/2009 5:09:55 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
I've had more problems with bolt not locking to the rear with PMags than with regular aluminum mags in several of my rifles.


If your bolt catch is stiff enough it can apply enough pressure to hold the carrier back on the front face of the carrier right behind the bolt lugs it's supposed to catch.
7/30/2009 5:10:08 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its nothing really to get your panties in a bundle about.

Hell my rifle even does it every now and then.


Why the fuck do people feel the need to make comments like this?  We are trying to diagnose a problem and you aren't helping, so shut up.


I have posted two other times saying that its probably a short stroking issue and or weak ammo.

And the reason that the bolt closes when he ejects the mag is because the bolt catch didnt catch the bolt, it caught the end of the carrier where the bolt sticks out.

The problem is diagnosed and there is nothing else to do but shoot the rifle again with some quality 5.56 and see if it continues.

I was not being an ass, its just a very small issue that will more than likely be fixed with full power ammo.


Is factroy black hills ammo not full power?
7/30/2009 5:10:56 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its nothing really to get your panties in a bundle about.

Hell my rifle even does it every now and then.


Why the fuck do people feel the need to make comments like this?  We are trying to diagnose a problem and you aren't helping, so shut up.


I have posted two other times saying that its probably a short stroking issue and or weak ammo.

And the reason that the bolt closes when he ejects the mag is because the bolt catch didnt catch the bolt, it caught the end of the carrier where the bolt sticks out.

The problem is diagnosed and there is nothing else to do but shoot the rifle again with some quality 5.56 and see if it continues.

I was not being an ass, its just a very small issue that will more than likely be fixed with full power ammo.


Is factroy black hills ammo not full power?


It is not 5.56mm pressure no.
7/30/2009 5:11:29 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its nothing really to get your panties in a bundle about.

Hell my rifle even does it every now and then.


Why the fuck do people feel the need to make comments like this?  We are trying to diagnose a problem and you aren't helping, so shut up.


I have posted two other times saying that its probably a short stroking issue and or weak ammo.

And the reason that the bolt closes when he ejects the mag is because the bolt catch didnt catch the bolt, it caught the end of the carrier where the bolt sticks out.

The problem is diagnosed and there is nothing else to do but shoot the rifle again with some quality 5.56 and see if it continues.

I was not being an ass, its just a very small issue that will more than likely be fixed with full power ammo.


If Black Hills isn't quality ammo, I'm not sure what is.  My handloads chronograph at the same velocity as the Black Hills, by the way.  But I guess I could work up a hotter load.
7/30/2009 5:11:38 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its nothing really to get your panties in a bundle about.

Hell my rifle even does it every now and then.


Why the fuck do people feel the need to make comments like this?  We are trying to diagnose a problem and you aren't helping, so shut up.


Agreed.  God fucking forbid I want to know what possible causes could be and how to go about resolving it.  I want my rifle to work properly.  I must be retarded.

Just to provide all relevant details: CAR gas system, CAR buffer (I have an H, didn't try it).  Only happened on the last round.  Didn't try any aluminum mags (don't own any, just PMAGs), this was the first time out with this upper.  

So far bad bolt catch and short stroking are the options.  Still wondering why it would only happen on the last round if it were short stroking, however.


Possibly because it's not short stroking bad enough to prevent stripping a round from the mag, but enough to engage the mag follower.
7/30/2009 5:12:51 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its nothing really to get your panties in a bundle about.

Hell my rifle even does it every now and then.


Why the fuck do people feel the need to make comments like this?  We are trying to diagnose a problem and you aren't helping, so shut up.


I have posted two other times saying that its probably a short stroking issue and or weak ammo.

And the reason that the bolt closes when he ejects the mag is because the bolt catch didnt catch the bolt, it caught the end of the carrier where the bolt sticks out.

The problem is diagnosed and there is nothing else to do but shoot the rifle again with some quality 5.56 and see if it continues.

I was not being an ass, its just a very small issue that will more than likely be fixed with full power ammo.


If Black Hills isn't quality ammo, I'm not sure what is.  My handloads chronograph at the same velocity as the Black Hills, by the way.  But I guess I could work up a hotter load.


Only other advice I can give you is to check to see if your bolt catch is wobbly, if so I would buy a new bolt catch and roll pin, also check to see if it will lock back on an empty mag by cycling the bolt by hand.

If it catches back It is a short stroking issue.

EDIT Black Hills is quality ammo, its just not 5.56mm pressure.
7/30/2009 5:14:34 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its nothing really to get your panties in a bundle about.

Hell my rifle even does it every now and then.


Why the fuck do people feel the need to make comments like this?  We are trying to diagnose a problem and you aren't helping, so shut up.


I have posted two other times saying that its probably a short stroking issue and or weak ammo.

And the reason that the bolt closes when he ejects the mag is because the bolt catch didnt catch the bolt, it caught the end of the carrier where the bolt sticks out.

The problem is diagnosed and there is nothing else to do but shoot the rifle again with some quality 5.56 and see if it continues.

I was not being an ass, its just a very small issue that will more than likely be fixed with full power ammo.


If Black Hills isn't quality ammo, I'm not sure what is.  My handloads chronograph at the same velocity as the Black Hills, by the way.  But I guess I could work up a hotter load.


I'd try some 5.56 like XM193, if it happens with that you can rule out ammo.
7/30/2009 5:15:53 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its nothing really to get your panties in a bundle about.

Hell my rifle even does it every now and then.


Why the fuck do people feel the need to make comments like this?  We are trying to diagnose a problem and you aren't helping, so shut up.


I have posted two other times saying that its probably a short stroking issue and or weak ammo.

And the reason that the bolt closes when he ejects the mag is because the bolt catch didnt catch the bolt, it caught the end of the carrier where the bolt sticks out.

The problem is diagnosed and there is nothing else to do but shoot the rifle again with some quality 5.56 and see if it continues.

I was not being an ass, its just a very small issue that will more than likely be fixed with full power ammo.


If Black Hills isn't quality ammo, I'm not sure what is.  My handloads chronograph at the same velocity as the Black Hills, by the way.  But I guess I could work up a hotter load.


I'd try some 5.56 like XM193, if it happens with that you can rule out ammo.


Guess I could do that.  I can't afford to shoot only factory ammo and shoot as much as I do though.  I'm thinking maybe I'll work up to a heavier powder charge.  I load my own for less than half the cost of XM193.  
7/30/2009 5:16:48 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its nothing really to get your panties in a bundle about.

Hell my rifle even does it every now and then.


Why the fuck do people feel the need to make comments like this?  We are trying to diagnose a problem and you aren't helping, so shut up.


I have posted two other times saying that its probably a short stroking issue and or weak ammo.

And the reason that the bolt closes when he ejects the mag is because the bolt catch didnt catch the bolt, it caught the end of the carrier where the bolt sticks out.

The problem is diagnosed and there is nothing else to do but shoot the rifle again with some quality 5.56 and see if it continues.

I was not being an ass, its just a very small issue that will more than likely be fixed with full power ammo.


If Black Hills isn't quality ammo, I'm not sure what is.  My handloads chronograph at the same velocity as the Black Hills, by the way.  But I guess I could work up a hotter load.


I'd try some 5.56 like XM193, if it happens with that you can rule out ammo.


Guess I could do that.  I can't afford to shoot only factory ammo and shoot as much as I do though.  I'm thinking maybe I'll work up to a heavier powder charge.  I load my own for less than half the cost of XM193.  


Go get your rifle and throw an empty mag in it and see if it will lock back on the empty mag by cycling the bolt.
7/30/2009 5:18:23 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its nothing really to get your panties in a bundle about.

Hell my rifle even does it every now and then.


Why the fuck do people feel the need to make comments like this?  We are trying to diagnose a problem and you aren't helping, so shut up.


I have posted two other times saying that its probably a short stroking issue and or weak ammo.

And the reason that the bolt closes when he ejects the mag is because the bolt catch didnt catch the bolt, it caught the end of the carrier where the bolt sticks out.

The problem is diagnosed and there is nothing else to do but shoot the rifle again with some quality 5.56 and see if it continues.

I was not being an ass, its just a very small issue that will more than likely be fixed with full power ammo.


If Black Hills isn't quality ammo, I'm not sure what is.  My handloads chronograph at the same velocity as the Black Hills, by the way.  But I guess I could work up a hotter load.


I'd try some 5.56 like XM193, if it happens with that you can rule out ammo.


Guess I could do that.  I can't afford to shoot only factory ammo and shoot as much as I do though.  I'm thinking maybe I'll work up to a heavier powder charge.  I load my own for less than half the cost of XM193.  


Go get your rifle and throw an empty mag in it and see if it will lock back on the empty mag by cycling the bolt.


It does.  I tried that immediately when I started having issues.

7/30/2009 5:20:23 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Quoted:
Its nothing really to get your panties in a bundle about.

Hell my rifle even does it every now and then.


Why the fuck do people feel the need to make comments like this?  We are trying to diagnose a problem and you aren't helping, so shut up.


I have posted two other times saying that its probably a short stroking issue and or weak ammo.

And the reason that the bolt closes when he ejects the mag is because the bolt catch didnt catch the bolt, it caught the end of the carrier where the bolt sticks out.

The problem is diagnosed and there is nothing else to do but shoot the rifle again with some quality 5.56 and see if it continues.

I was not being an ass, its just a very small issue that will more than likely be fixed with full power ammo.


If Black Hills isn't quality ammo, I'm not sure what is.  My handloads chronograph at the same velocity as the Black Hills, by the way.  But I guess I could work up a hotter load.


I'd try some 5.56 like XM193, if it happens with that you can rule out ammo.


Guess I could do that.  I can't afford to shoot only factory ammo and shoot as much as I do though.  I'm thinking maybe I'll work up to a heavier powder charge.  I load my own for less than half the cost of XM193.  


Go get your rifle and throw an empty mag in it and see if it will lock back on the empty mag by cycling the bolt.


It does.  I tried that immediately when I started having issues.



Then it is clearly a short stroking issue.

One of two things needs to happen to fix this

Open up the gas port by drilling it larger,

Or new gas rings are in order. Do you know how to check to see if your rings are bad? Also check to see if the carrier key is lose.
7/30/2009 5:22:08 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
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Its nothing really to get your panties in a bundle about.

Hell my rifle even does it every now and then.


Why the fuck do people feel the need to make comments like this?  We are trying to diagnose a problem and you aren't helping, so shut up.


I have posted two other times saying that its probably a short stroking issue and or weak ammo.

And the reason that the bolt closes when he ejects the mag is because the bolt catch didnt catch the bolt, it caught the end of the carrier where the bolt sticks out.

The problem is diagnosed and there is nothing else to do but shoot the rifle again with some quality 5.56 and see if it continues.

I was not being an ass, its just a very small issue that will more than likely be fixed with full power ammo.


If Black Hills isn't quality ammo, I'm not sure what is.  My handloads chronograph at the same velocity as the Black Hills, by the way.  But I guess I could work up a hotter load.


I'd try some 5.56 like XM193, if it happens with that you can rule out ammo.


Guess I could do that.  I can't afford to shoot only factory ammo and shoot as much as I do though.  I'm thinking maybe I'll work up to a heavier powder charge.  I load my own for less than half the cost of XM193.  


Go get your rifle and throw an empty mag in it and see if it will lock back on the empty mag by cycling the bolt.


It does.  I tried that immediately when I started having issues.



Then it is clearly a short stroking issue.

One of two things needs to happen to fix this

Open up the gas port by drilling it larger,

Or new gas rings are in order. Do you know how to check to see if your rings are bad? Also check to see if the carrier key is lose.


Yeah, but he said it happened with 2 different uppers.
7/30/2009 5:23:59 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
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Quoted:
Its nothing really to get your panties in a bundle about.

Hell my rifle even does it every now and then.


Why the fuck do people feel the need to make comments like this?  We are trying to diagnose a problem and you aren't helping, so shut up.


I have posted two other times saying that its probably a short stroking issue and or weak ammo.

And the reason that the bolt closes when he ejects the mag is because the bolt catch didnt catch the bolt, it caught the end of the carrier where the bolt sticks out.

The problem is diagnosed and there is nothing else to do but shoot the rifle again with some quality 5.56 and see if it continues.

I was not being an ass, its just a very small issue that will more than likely be fixed with full power ammo.


If Black Hills isn't quality ammo, I'm not sure what is.  My handloads chronograph at the same velocity as the Black Hills, by the way.  But I guess I could work up a hotter load.


I'd try some 5.56 like XM193, if it happens with that you can rule out ammo.


Guess I could do that.  I can't afford to shoot only factory ammo and shoot as much as I do though.  I'm thinking maybe I'll work up to a heavier powder charge.  I load my own for less than half the cost of XM193.  


Go get your rifle and throw an empty mag in it and see if it will lock back on the empty mag by cycling the bolt.


It does.  I tried that immediately when I started having issues.



Then it is clearly a short stroking issue.

One of two things needs to happen to fix this

Open up the gas port by drilling it larger,

Or new gas rings are in order. Do you know how to check to see if your rings are bad? Also check to see if the carrier key is lose.


Yeah, but he said it happened with 2 different uppers.


To be fair, it only happened one time in the LaRue upper, and that was in a shit ton of rounds.

7/30/2009 5:25:43 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
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Its nothing really to get your panties in a bundle about.

Hell my rifle even does it every now and then.


Why the fuck do people feel the need to make comments like this?  We are trying to diagnose a problem and you aren't helping, so shut up.


I have posted two other times saying that its probably a short stroking issue and or weak ammo.

And the reason that the bolt closes when he ejects the mag is because the bolt catch didnt catch the bolt, it caught the end of the carrier where the bolt sticks out.

The problem is diagnosed and there is nothing else to do but shoot the rifle again with some quality 5.56 and see if it continues.

I was not being an ass, its just a very small issue that will more than likely be fixed with full power ammo.


If Black Hills isn't quality ammo, I'm not sure what is.  My handloads chronograph at the same velocity as the Black Hills, by the way.  But I guess I could work up a hotter load.


I'd try some 5.56 like XM193, if it happens with that you can rule out ammo.


Guess I could do that.  I can't afford to shoot only factory ammo and shoot as much as I do though.  I'm thinking maybe I'll work up to a heavier powder charge.  I load my own for less than half the cost of XM193.  


Go get your rifle and throw an empty mag in it and see if it will lock back on the empty mag by cycling the bolt.


It does.  I tried that immediately when I started having issues.



Then it is clearly a short stroking issue.

One of two things needs to happen to fix this

Open up the gas port by drilling it larger,

Or new gas rings are in order. Do you know how to check to see if your rings are bad? Also check to see if the carrier key is lose.


Yep I know the test, rings are good.  This is a brand new LMT upper and BCG.  

I just got the upper back from ADCO this week.  They cut the barrel to 14.5" and pinned a FSC556 on.  They test fired it, but I don't know how many rounds they put through it.

I think I'll work up a hotter load before sending it out to have the port opened up.

Just a thought, but is there any way at all that trying a H buffer would make any difference?  It's a long shot, but WTF.

7/30/2009 5:26:40 PM EDT
[#36]
I understand that, but if the lower is locking back on empty mags then its a short stroking problem.

The only way it could be the lowers fault is if the bolt carried had some forward and backward play, but since it is locking back empty mags I dont understand how it could be.
7/30/2009 5:28:54 PM EDT
[#37]
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Its nothing really to get your panties in a bundle about.

Hell my rifle even does it every now and then.


Why the fuck do people feel the need to make comments like this?  We are trying to diagnose a problem and you aren't helping, so shut up.


I have posted two other times saying that its probably a short stroking issue and or weak ammo.

And the reason that the bolt closes when he ejects the mag is because the bolt catch didnt catch the bolt, it caught the end of the carrier where the bolt sticks out.

The problem is diagnosed and there is nothing else to do but shoot the rifle again with some quality 5.56 and see if it continues.

I was not being an ass, its just a very small issue that will more than likely be fixed with full power ammo.


If Black Hills isn't quality ammo, I'm not sure what is.  My handloads chronograph at the same velocity as the Black Hills, by the way.  But I guess I could work up a hotter load.


I'd try some 5.56 like XM193, if it happens with that you can rule out ammo.


Guess I could do that.  I can't afford to shoot only factory ammo and shoot as much as I do though.  I'm thinking maybe I'll work up to a heavier powder charge.  I load my own for less than half the cost of XM193.  


Go get your rifle and throw an empty mag in it and see if it will lock back on the empty mag by cycling the bolt.


It does.  I tried that immediately when I started having issues.



Then it is clearly a short stroking issue.

One of two things needs to happen to fix this

Open up the gas port by drilling it larger,

Or new gas rings are in order. Do you know how to check to see if your rings are bad? Also check to see if the carrier key is lose.


Yep I know the test, rings are good.  This is a brand new LMT upper and BCG.  

I just got the upper back from ADCO this week.  They cut the barrel to 14.5" and pinned a FSC556 on.  They test fired it, but I don't know how many rounds they put through it.

I think I'll work up a hotter load before sending it out to have the port opened up.

Just a thought, but is there any way at all that trying a H buffer would make any difference?  It's a long shot, but WTF.



It couldn't hurt, but i would think that if it's short stroking, a heavier buffer would only make it worse.
7/30/2009 5:29:21 PM EDT
[#38]
I wouldn't throw a heavier buffer in it if it is a short stroking problem.

If you have one laying around try it but also bring the carbine buffer to the range.

Just try one box of some LC 5.56 and see if it works.

One last question. Did these problems crop up around one mag? or was it several different mags?

The fact they cut the barrel down makes me think it could be a short stroking problem from where they may have not opened up the gas port enough.
7/30/2009 5:30:31 PM EDT
[#39]
Happened with a few different mags.  I wish I could blame one mag.  

The only problem with trying factory 5.56 is that one box isn't enough to tell if its ammo.  There were stretches I fired 50-60 rounds of my loads with no issues.  This was sporadic.  I'm going to e-mail ADCO and get their input.  I'll go from there.  I'm really thinking that working up a hotter load is going to fix it if it's short stroking.  If not, I'll do what needs to be done from there.
7/30/2009 5:36:30 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Happened with a few different mags.  I wish I could blame one mag.  


Try one box of quality 5.56, not .223 this time.

It sounds just like a short stroking problem, more than likely from where the gas port wasn't enlarged enough.

With 5.56 pressures though I have a feeling it will be fine. The reason I say this is because its not short stroking enough to make the gun jam, but just enough not to lock the bolt back.

Yea its a PITA that it isn't working with your handloads, Im in the same boat, one rifle I have says no to my handloads all day. Worst comes to worst I would ask ADCO to open the port up a bit.
7/30/2009 5:37:50 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:

The only problem with trying factory 5.56 is that one box isn't enough to tell if its ammo.  There were stretches I fired 50-60 rounds of my loads with no issues.  This was sporadic.  I'm going to e-mail ADCO and get their input.  I'll go from there.  I'm really thinking that working up a hotter load is going to fix it if it's short stroking.  If not, I'll do what needs to be done from there.


Hotter handload will fix the problem(if it is a short stroke problem), but to me that would be an annoyance that it wouldn't work with .223 pressures.
7/30/2009 5:39:56 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Happened with a few different mags.  I wish I could blame one mag.  


Try one box of quality 5.56, not .223 this time.

It sounds just like a short stroking problem, more than likely from where the gas port wasn't enlarged enough.

With 5.56 pressures though I have a feeling it will be fine. The reason I say this is because its not short stroking enough to make the gun jam, but just enough not to lock the bolt back.

Yea its a PITA that it isn't working with your handloads, Im in the same boat, one rifle I have says no to my handloads all day. Worst comes to worst I would ask ADCO to open the port up a bit.


I'm not quite understanding why I can't just work a load up to 5.56 pressures.  My current load is 24.6gr of H335.  I have two sources of load data on my bench, one specifically listed for AR-15, with a max charge of 25.7gr, another set of data listed as 5.56 NATO instead of .223 Remington lists a max charge of 26.0gr.  So it would seem that I have a good amount of room left to work up to.

Not trying to argue with you, as I appreciate the help.  But is there a reason I can't simply work up a load to 5.56 pressures?
7/30/2009 5:43:41 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Happened with a few different mags.  I wish I could blame one mag.  


Try one box of quality 5.56, not .223 this time.

It sounds just like a short stroking problem, more than likely from where the gas port wasn't enlarged enough.

With 5.56 pressures though I have a feeling it will be fine. The reason I say this is because its not short stroking enough to make the gun jam, but just enough not to lock the bolt back.

Yea its a PITA that it isn't working with your handloads, Im in the same boat, one rifle I have says no to my handloads all day. Worst comes to worst I would ask ADCO to open the port up a bit.


I'm not quite understanding why I can't just work a load up to 5.56 pressures.  My current load is 24.6gr of H335.  I have two sources of load data on my bench, one specifically listed for AR-15, with a max charge of 25.7gr, another set of data listed as 5.56 NATO instead of .223 Remington lists a max charge of 26.0gr.  So it would seem that I have a good amount of room left to work up to.

Not trying to argue with you, as I appreciate the help.  But is there a reason I can't simply work up a load to 5.56 pressures?


No Im saying you can. Assuming you barrel is 5.56..,

All I am is saying is that having to work up a specific load just because the rifle is short stroking on .223 pressures would be an annoyance to myself. I believe that you working up to a hotter load will fix the problem as it is just barely short stroking(if it is indeed a short stroking problem that I believe it is)
7/30/2009 5:45:14 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Why do AR people post every time they have a malfunction?


BECAUSE THATS WHAT TECH FORUMS ARE FOR, IN PART TO SOLVE PROBLEMS/ANSWER QUESTIONS. IF YOUR SICK OF SEEING THEM FEEL FREE NOT TO READ OR REPLY IN THE THREADS
A better question is...

If your not helping solve the problem , why are you posting here?
Thanks
7/30/2009 5:45:58 PM EDT
[#45]
Cool then that's what I'll try first.  It's a 5.56 chamber, that I know for sure.  This is my only AR, so I have no problem at all working up the load just for it.
7/30/2009 5:47:16 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its nothing really to get your panties in a bundle about.

Hell my rifle even does it every now and then.


Why the fuck do people feel the need to make comments like this?  We are trying to diagnose a problem and you aren't helping, so shut up.


WHY DONT YOU READ THE CODE OF CONDUCT BEFORE POSTING IN TECH?

We dont need abusive or abrasive language here. Your only raising they level of uncivil discourse. Wake up and act like an adult.
7/30/2009 5:47:31 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Cool then that's what I'll try first.  It's a 5.56 chamber, that I know for sure.  This is my only AR, so I have no problem at all working up the load just for it.


I would still contact ADCO about it. They are a good company and I am sure they will fix your problem. But first definitely just try some hotter ammo.
7/30/2009 5:48:34 PM EDT
[#48]
Sounds crazy but I had a custumer come by the shop with the same prob. I changed the buffer waight and that seemed to fix it. droped the waight just by a gram. Or try a lighter spring. Hope this helps.
7/30/2009 5:48:51 PM EDT
[#49]
I just sent an IM to PropDoc.  I get much quicker replies IMing him and GreenM4Guy than emailing them on the site.
7/30/2009 5:50:56 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
I just sent an IM to PropDoc.  I get much quicker replies IMing him and GreenM4Guy than emailing them on the site.


Ok great, so now everyone can simma down.
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