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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Easy question.. .Chambered round (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 5/30/2009 7:55:26 PM EDT
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I assume the AR is like any gun, just checking as I'm new to rifles. Any problems leaving a chambered round in for HD use? Want to be able to click safety off & shoot if needed.
Same question for my AK as well. Thanks |
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Nothing wrong with it as long as you follow all basic gun safety rules at all times.
I would recommend keeping the weapon chambered if it is your primary HD weapon, because it just eliminates one step in bringing your weapon to readiness in the event of an emergency. That said, however, you make damn sure that no unsupervised children have access to that weapon please! Remember, ALL guns are ALWAYS loaded, and handle them accordingly. |
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It's just as easy to pull the Charging Handle back if you new to this weapon. I'm going to respectfully disagree with that. He said it was his HD weapon. That means he might need to get it into action damn fast in an emergency, home invasion type scenario. Fingers can slip on that charging handle, or he might fail to pull it back far enough - and the chances of that are greater with shaky hands from an adrenaline rush. I think it's better to have a round chambered and the safety on, and then all he has to do is flip the safety lever to "FIRE." |
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It's just as easy to pull the Charging Handle back if you new to this weapon. I'm going to respectfully disagree with that. He said it was his HD weapon. That means he might need to get it into action damn fast in an emergency, home invasion type scenario. Fingers can slip on that charging handle, or he might fail to pull it back far enough - and the chances of that are greater with shaky hands from an adrenaline rush. I think it's better to have a round chambered and the safety on, and then all he has to do is flip the safety lever to "FIRE." I keep mine with the bolt locked back. I think finding the handle is easier than flipping a switch, though 
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It's just as easy to pull the Charging Handle back if you new to this weapon. This is very sensible advise. Are there really some of us who are so paranoid that racking a slide, pulling a charging handle is going to mean the difference in life and death? Im not including LEO's in this statement. Im just saying.......one of us regular, run of the mill arfcommer. |
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Its not about being super paranoid-ninja tastic whatever. You do it to build good habits.
The weapon is only as safe as you make it. If you can't trust yourself, or have liabilities in the house (kids ect) then condition one may not be your cup of tea, nothing wrong with that. For others, that's what we've grown use to and feel comfortable knowing a go no-go situation is just a thumb flick away. |
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It's just as easy to pull the Charging Handle back if you new to this weapon. This is very sensible advise. Are there really some of us who are so paranoid that racking a slide, pulling a charging handle is going to mean the difference in life and death? Im not including LEO's in this statement. Im just saying.......one of us regular, run of the mill arfcommer. No disrespect intended, but hear me out please... Do you know what happens in real world lethal force encounters? This isn't about being "paranoid." There are massive physiological reactions to life threatening stress which you cannot control. Tachypsychia, hyperventilation, adrenaline surge, fight or flight reactions, auditory exclusion, trembling hands - all common, even among trained professionals. Ask Mas Ayoob how many reports he has come across in which LEOs and armed citizens have found the simplest thing has suddenly become very difficult - or THEY COMPLETELY FORGOT TO DO IT - in such situations. Practicing until your reactions are second nature and ingrained into "muscle memory" is one way to overcome this, but very few of us practice as much as we should. You would not seriously suggest that we should carry our CCW weapons with an empty chamber, would you? Of course not - only a fool would do that. Keeping an AR for HD is no different than carrying a concealed weapon for personal defense in public - not only do seconds count, but FRACTIONS of a second count. Not intended as a flame so please don't take it that way - but I take this subject very seriously. |
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No offense taken. Im just curious so I asked. Maybe, because I try to be aware of my situation and the people around me, I personally feel that I have time to rack the slide if a threat develops. I could be dead wrong on this one.
I would not want one of those one in a million incidents to happen to an innocent someone else with my carry gun. |
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omega62 is dead on. Not to mention if you rack the slide / charging handle whatever and some scumbag hears you do it do you really think he's going to have any reservations about shooting through your bedroom wall possibly killing you or yours with blind luck..... I don't live in a "bad" urban area most people would consider this area boring and safe but a few months ago 20~miles from my house a friend of mines neighbor was beaten with a bat / robbed while on his way to his car for work early in the am. Scumbags are everywhere now. |
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Nothing wrong with it as long as you follow all basic gun safety rules at all times.
Basically this sums it up. The only reason NOT to chamber a round is if it is in storage. I keep all my semis in Condition 2 when they are in my safe. The reason? If a house fire reaches the safe, the receivers will get so hot, the chambered round will cook off... chambering another round, which will then cook off... ad infinitum until the mag is empty. Firemen do not take kindly to such events, and have been known to allow a structure to burn down rather than chance being shot. |
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That's how i keep mine. I handle all of them like they are loaded because they are  All my weapons are loaded /chamber My dad told me when I was a little boy back in 1975 THAT I WAS THE SAFETY My Kids know that all my weapons are loaded and ready Never a problem but I do put my weapons up when they have friends over |
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Does the thought of a cocked and locked 1911 make you uncomfortable? If it does, a loaded AR15 is the exact same thing. The only difference is that you can't see that the hammer is cocked. If you're fine with that - no problems. alot of Ignorant guys around who like handguns Some would see my Colt Combat Elite 1911, mustang,etc and freak out! |
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If your new to rifles then I will say that it is not the best idea. However if you feel confident enough in your ability to keep that loaded rifle safe then go ahead. Im going to get shit for this I hate seeing Newbies with GLOCKS ( GUYS WHO NEVER FIRED A WEAPON) I see them all the time at the range with finger on trigger Scary I lived in the country all my life so I had my own range Im 44 But I moved to SWFL the last 5/6 yrs. and now have to shoot at the range 
At first there was no range masters It took someone to get shot to figure it out Im still kinda scared going alone |
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It's just as easy to pull the Charging Handle back if you new to this weapon. This is very sensible advise. Are there really some of us who are so paranoid that racking a slide, pulling a charging handle is going to mean the difference in life and death? Im not including LEO's in this statement. Im just saying.......one of us regular, run of the mill arfcommer. For protection all my weapons are loaded ! Im a civi I carry my handguns loaded for over 20years 1 second is alot of time when and if SHTF |
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No offense taken. Im just curious so I asked. Maybe, because I try to be aware of my situation and the people around me, I personally feel that I have time to rack the slide if a threat develops. I could be dead wrong on this one. I would not want one of those one in a million incidents to happen to an innocent someone else with my carry gun. Dude!! Never mind |
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No offense taken. Im just curious so I asked. Maybe, because I try to be aware of my situation and the people around me, I personally feel that I have time to rack the slide if a threat develops. I could be dead wrong on this one. I would not want one of those one in a million incidents to happen to an innocent someone else with my carry gun. IMHO like Omega said, when the " oh shit " factor kicks in. Most of easy to do stuff goes right out the window. When it comes to a home invasion, this is where things will get FUBAR. Maybe you're in the John, or maybe washing dishes, watching TV or getting ready for bed. Most people will let their guard down when in their home. Most cases of home invasions, you will not be ready/waiting for it. Easy everday tasks can become difficult when stress kicks in. Fine and gross motor skills become difficult under certain conditions. We have all encountered the restroom emergency, when under the stress of that, it becomes hard to unbutton pants or loosen a belt. Or trying to get into a car or unlock a front door quickly, fumbling the keys and not able to get the key in fast enough. Just food for thought, IMHO having a loaded firearm ready to go is only 1/2 the solution. Training and practice with your HD firearm is the other 1/2 to the equation. |
SD gun is useless IMO without a round in the pipe. 
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No offense taken. Im just curious so I asked. Maybe, because I try to be aware of my situation and the people around me, I personally feel that I have time to rack the slide if a threat develops. I could be dead wrong on this one. I would not want one of those one in a million incidents to happen to an innocent someone else with my carry gun. Change your preparadness or you just may end up dead wrong. An event like a home invasion will catch you off guard not matter how prepared ypu are. The incident will unfold so quickly you probably wont even have time to shit your pants until it's over. Then the spinchter will loosen up a bit. Compound this by being a sleep 
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| I suggest some of you take some force on force training or participate in a 3 gun match. I have forgotten to switch the selector to "fire" many times, and have started stages without a round in the chamber. It still happens once in while but my hands are trained to immediately remedy the problem. Those of you who think that you will remain calm and level headed in a stressful situation are WRONG, and only training your muscle memory will aid in an emergency situation. If someone is in your home, you will grab your weapon and your brain will shut off. Being prepared has nothing to do with the state of readiness your weapon is in. |
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Paging military personnel!!! What are the safety rules that the military follows?
Do they keep a chambered round? If so when and when not. Do they have a round in the chamber on patrol? Do they have a round in the chamber on base or guard duty?.The military has more experience with "Home Defense" than any one of us. How do they handle the cocked and locked question? I believe that keeping a round in the chamber in any situation other than for an IMMEDIATE threat is just plain ignorant (Exception ––if the firearm is being carried by you, ). I think that the majority of people that keep a loaded chamber for HD are young guys who have not yet had an accidental discharge. When they gain real life experience they will keep the chamber clear. |
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Paging military personnel!!! What are the safety rules that the military follows? Do they keep a chambered round? If so when and when not. Do they have a round in the chamber on patrol? Do they have a round in the chamber on base or guard duty?.The military has more experience with "Home Defense" than any one of us. How do they handle the cocked and locked question? I believe that keeping a round in the chamber in any situation other than for an IMMEDIATE threat is just plain ignorant. I think that the majority of people that keep a loaded chamber for HD are young guys who have not yet had an accidental discharge. When they gain real life experience they will keep the chamber clear. This is a REALLY good question that I would also like to know the answer to. BTW I keep my HD AR with a loaded mag in it but an empty chamber. |
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From the "military perspective" you are looking for...
It all depends on the current situation... On a FOB, weapons are completely unloaded... I have worked installations where they wanted an empty chamber and when outside the wire over there we were fully loaded every time we left I will say this (and I am sure almost everyone who has deployed will agree) the vast majority of ND's happened at the clearing barrel upon returning from a mission... I am of the personal belief that you will treat every weapon as if it is loaded if all your weapons are freakin loaded I don't look at it from the perspective of someone pouncing on me from two feet away while I am still in my bed, but simply that I have always trained with a loaded pistol/rifle/shotgun and as such that is how I keep my weapons How many of the people that advocate keeping their HD weapons unloaded have ever returned from a quick trip to the gas station etc to find they had not loaded their weapon when they left? |
| Wayneard3413 pretty much nailed it. The only time we were condition one was outside the wire. Again, so many NDs come into clearing barrels primarily (in my exp.) from people racking the slide/charging handle, removing the mag, then blasting one into the clearing barrel. In fact, a FOB I was on for a short period of time, they assigned Marines to watch the clearing barrel and doublecheck that you were in fact clear. To me it was silly, but when 1stSgts (E-8s) are shootin up clearing barrels, I guess anything can happen. Sad world when members of our military cant be trusted with their weapons loaded. |
| as far as unattended weapons goes, we never left our rifles unattended. Be it on the FOB, or outside the wire, you were always carrying or slingin it over your back. Inside the wire, no ammo on the gun, (unless guard duty), and outside the wire, we rolled condition one, of course some people would be cond 3 inside an MRAP cause it was so goddamn bouncy they didnt want to risk an ND inside an armored truck |
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No offense taken. Im just curious so I asked. Maybe, because I try to be aware of my situation and the people around me, I personally feel that I have time to rack the slide if a threat develops. I could be dead wrong on this one. I would not want one of those one in a million incidents to happen to an innocent someone else with my carry gun. Jeff Cooper wrote many years ago regarding the 1911 and Condition Three. He said that the military stated that there was always enough time ot chamber a round. Cooper said that there were many who knew otherwise, but they were not here to tell us. |
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That's how i keep mine. I handle all of them like they are loaded because they are All my weapons are loaded /chamber My dad told me when I was a little boy back in 1975 THAT I WAS THE SAFETY My Kids know that all my weapons are loaded and ready Never a problem but I do put my weapons up when they have friends over HA HA! My dad was a dumbass, too! I'd take his guns out all the time and load and unload them when he wasn't around. He was a hardass, too, but it still didn't stop my curiosity. I just loved guns when I was 8. Never got caught, never had an AD. It wouldn't have been negligent at 8. Well, I supposed my dad would have been negligent. But times were different back them, loaded guns were the norm. I guess he thought his hard ass ways extended past is absence. Not in my case, curiosity won every time. I'm 44, now, and have never had an AD or an ND (knock on wood). I've had slam fires from free floating, stuck or broken firing pins and high primers, but never an ND. I don't cycle my weapons at home and I don't leave them with loaded chambers. Force training and live matches are the only way to go. Muscle memory is not theory and you will more than likely divert to your level of training in crisis. No training is a crap shoot. It's arrogant to suggest otherwise. Just like my father's arrogance that threats of punishment would stop me from touching those fine guns when he wasn't around. I just didn't work like that. |
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No offense taken. Im just curious so I asked. Maybe, because I try to be aware of my situation and the people around me, I personally feel that I have time to rack the slide if a threat develops. I could be dead wrong on this one. I would not want one of those one in a million incidents to happen to an innocent someone else with my carry gun. Jeff Cooper wrote many years ago regarding the 1911 and Condition Three. He said that the military stated that there was always enough time ot chamber a round. Cooper said that there were many who knew otherwise, but they were not here to tell us. A-fucking-men, and thank you! There is a story related in one of the books I recently read about Vietnam (I believe it was one of Culbertson's books, either A SNIPER IN THE ARIZONA or THE 13 CENT KILLERS but I don't remember) which is very informative on this point. It involved a supply depot what was attacked by Viet Cong sappers, and most of the U.S. Army troops there (about 20 in all) were either killed or wounded in the attack, with minimal (if any) casualties being sustained by the VC. The reason? The reason was because a certain U.S. Army major in charge of the depot did not trust his troops with chambered rounds IN A WAR ZONE, and had ordered the sentries to keep their weapons with empty chambers. Worse, some of his men DID NOT HAVE ANY AMMO ON THEIR PERSON AT ALL, because said idiiot major did not "trust" them with it. Point of the story? The military are not always the experts on personal defense that many people seem to think. They are experts at fighting wars, yes. They are NOT always experts on personal defense. Ask one of the Marines who was in Beirut in 1983 about the advisability of being told to keep their weapons unloaded - i.e., one of the ones who survived that is. <––––Eight years active duty. |
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Cooper was a sensationalist and often imbibed too much. Anybody that hung around Gunsite long enough knew this. He told and wrote many a great story but I've always taken them with a grain of salt. That doesn't mean he wasn't a great man who was basically the father of combat handgun training. It just means he was a bit bigger than reality.
Your home is not a military compound and we are not in a state of war. The Israeli or Mossad draw is taught to thousands and is still a standard draw method for the 1911 as far as I know. It's a matter of practice and training and muscle memory. It's fast and safe, but to each his own. |
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Cooper was a sensationalist and often imbibed too much. Anybody that hung around Gunsite long enough knew this. He told and wrote many a great story but I've always taken them with a grain of salt. That doesn't mean he wasn't a great man who was basically the father of combat handgun training. It just means he was a bit bigger than reality. Your home is not a military compound and we are not in a state of war. The Israeli or Mossad draw is taught to thousands and is still a standard draw method for the 1911 as far as I know. It's a matter of practice and training and muscle memory. It's fast and safe, but to each his own. |
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That's how i keep mine. I handle all of them like they are loaded because they are All my weapons are loaded /chamber My dad told me when I was a little boy back in 1975 THAT I WAS THE SAFETY My Kids know that all my weapons are loaded and ready Never a problem but I do put my weapons up when they have friends over HA HA! My dad was a dumbass, too! I'd take his guns out all the time and load and unload them when he wasn't around. He was a hardass, too, but it still didn't stop my curiosity. I just loved guns when I was 8. Never got caught, never had an AD. It wouldn't have been negligent at 8. Well, I supposed my dad would have been negligent. But times were different back them, loaded guns were the norm. I guess he thought his hard ass ways extended past is absence. Not in my case, curiosity won every time. I'm 44, now, and have never had an AD or an ND (knock on wood). I've had slam fires from free floating, stuck or broken firing pins and high primers, but never an ND. I don't cycle my weapons at home and I don't leave them with loaded chambers. Force training and live matches are the only way to go. Muscle memory is not theory and you will more than likely divert to your level of training in crisis. No training is a crap shoot. It's arrogant to suggest otherwise. Just like my father's arrogance that threats of punishment would stop me from touching those fine guns when he wasn't around. I just didn't work like that. I feel sorry for you! cant fix a dumb ass My kids are of a better class thanks for your stupid remarks BTW my dad was a sarge in the AF in the early 60`s he taught me well enough to get started |
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too bad you cant just buy claymores for home defense.
I keep my hd bolt locked back mag in the well and safely concealed in my closet, but I also have a dog that barks at anything near a door or window after dark, and who wakes very easy, I guess I rely on the dog to wake me with the 4-5 seconds I would need to be gun in hand. I figure it will take at least that long to break and enter even if their quick. |
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too bad you cant just buy claymores for home defense. I keep my hd bolt locked back mag in the well and safely concealed in my closet, but I also have a dog that barks at anything near a door or window after dark, and who wakes very easy, I guess I rely on the dog to wake me with the 4-5 seconds I would need to be gun in hand. I figure it will take at least that long to break and enter even if their quick. A dog is great!! I miss mine alot after putting my second dog down I couldnt bare another dog! |
| Exactly, each situation is different. One lives in the country, another one lives in the city and many of us live somewhere in between. Some have dogs/kids/wives/husband/whatever. In general I subscribe to keeping my primary HD/PD gun in condition 1. My other guns(s) that are around are in condition 2. Anything in the "safe"/case or otherwise 'stored' are not loaded. This works for me. I have instant access(by pulling the trigger) to a dozen rounds of .45 and with the retraction of the charging handle, another 30 rounds or so of .223. I usually keep 5 or 6 magazines of each loaded and accessible. Again, depending on your level of security you will have more or less time than someone else. |
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Exactly, each situation is different. One lives in the country, another one lives in the city and many of us live somewhere in between. Some have dogs/kids/wives/husband/whatever. In general I subscribe to keeping my primary HD/PD gun in condition 1. My other guns(s) that are around are in condition 2. Anything in the "safe"/case or otherwise 'stored' are not loaded. This works for me. I have instant access(by pulling the trigger) to a dozen rounds of .45 and with the retraction of the charging handle, another 30 rounds or so of .223. I usually keep 5 or 6 magazines of each loaded and accessible. Again, depending on your level of security you will have more or less time than someone else. I can agree on that During charlie here in punta Gorda I kept my weapons very close |
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Jeff Cooper wrote many years ago regarding the 1911 and Condition Three. He said that the military stated that there was always enough time ot chamber a round. Cooper said that there were many who knew otherwise, but they were not here to tell us. Yeah, we have a name for them –– losers. |
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Jeff Cooper wrote many years ago regarding the 1911 and Condition Three. He said that the military stated that there was always enough time ot chamber a round. Cooper said that there were many who knew otherwise, but they were not here to tell us. Yeah, we have a name for them –– losers. C'mon now... don't log in with Daddy's account. That's rude. |
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It's just as easy to pull the Charging Handle back if you new to this weapon. I'm going to respectfully disagree with that. He said it was his HD weapon. That means he might need to get it into action damn fast in an emergency, home invasion type scenario. Fingers can slip on that charging handle, or he might fail to pull it back far enough - and the chances of that are greater with shaky hands from an adrenaline rush. I think it's better to have a round chambered and the safety on, and then all he has to do is flip the safety lever to "FIRE." +1 on slipping fingers or short-stroking, safety is flipped off w/ both hands in their proper placement for firing position, could be brought into action one handed if needed. Immediate threats happen w/o warning, opinions vary .
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It's just as easy to pull the Charging Handle back if you new to this weapon. I'm going to respectfully disagree with that. He said it was his HD weapon. That means he might need to get it into action damn fast in an emergency, home invasion type scenario. Fingers can slip on that charging handle, or he might fail to pull it back far enough - and the chances of that are greater with shaky hands from an adrenaline rush. I think it's better to have a round chambered and the safety on, and then all he has to do is flip the safety lever to "FIRE." +1 on slipping fingers or short-stroking, safety is flipped off w/ both hands in their proper placement for firing position, could be brought into action one handed if needed. Immediate threats happen w/o warning, opinions vary .1 reason to stick with 1 carry handgun with the same back up w/ same action |
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It's just as easy to pull the Charging Handle back if you new to this weapon. This is very sensible advise. Are there really some of us who are so paranoid that racking a slide, pulling a charging handle is going to mean the difference in life and death? Im not including LEO's in this statement. Im just saying.......one of us regular, run of the mill arfcommer. No disrespect intended, but hear me out please... Do you know what happens in real world lethal force encounters? This isn't about being "paranoid." There are massive physiological reactions to life threatening stress which you cannot control. Tachypsychia, hyperventilation, adrenaline surge, fight or flight reactions, auditory exclusion, trembling hands - all common, even among trained professionals. Ask Mas Ayoob how many reports he has come across in which LEOs and armed citizens have found the simplest thing has suddenly become very difficult - or THEY COMPLETELY FORGOT TO DO IT - in such situations. Practicing until your reactions are second nature and ingrained into "muscle memory" is one way to overcome this, but very few of us practice as much as we should. You would not seriously suggest that we should carry our CCW weapons with an empty chamber, would you? Of course not - only a fool would do that. Keeping an AR for HD is no different than carrying a concealed weapon for personal defense in public - not only do seconds count, but FRACTIONS of a second count. Not intended as a flame so please don't take it that way - but I take this subject very seriously. If it's not cocked, locked and ready to rock, it's not a true HD weapon. It's then a club that happens to have a trigger... |
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Paging military personnel!!! What are the safety rules that the military follows? Do they keep a chambered round? If so when and when not. Do they have a round in the chamber on patrol? Do they have a round in the chamber on base or guard duty?.The military has more experience with "Home Defense" than any one of us. How do they handle the cocked and locked question? I believe that keeping a round in the chamber in any situation other than for an IMMEDIATE threat is just plain ignorant (Exception ––if the firearm is being carried by you, ). I think that the majority of people that keep a loaded chamber for HD are young guys who have not yet had an accidental discharge. When they gain real life experience they will keep the chamber clear. During the ground war in Desert Storm, we were locked and loaded. In garrison, or on guard duty, during peacetime, never. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Easy question.. .Chambered round (Page 1 of 2)
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