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Posted: 4/13/2009 3:43:25 PM EDT
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Someone makes a Dry Fire Device for the Ar-15, sold by parts4ar15.com. Looks like it stops the hammer before it hits the firing pin, prevents any AD and supposedly allows easier re-cocking for the next "shot".
Does anyone have a report on this gadget? Nice idea, if it works as advertised and doesn't damage the gun. |
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somebody's going to probably be along in seconds to disagree with me but any dry fire stuff is the biggest possible waste of money in ARs.
Marines spend a week snapping in (dry fireing) before they ever go to the range. You won't damage the gun. Now if you're shooting a rimfire you may need to be careful |
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somebody's going to probably be along in seconds to disagree with me but any dry fire stuff is the biggest possible waste of money in ARs. Marines spend a week snapping in (dry fireing) before they ever go to the range. You won't damage the gun. Now if you're shooting a rimfire you may need to be careful I wont disagree, on the contrary, I will agree with you. Only thing i wont DF is my hamerelli due to the company saying not too, for the AR 15 its good to go as is. |
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Snap caps don't prevent ADs and don't make the rifle easier to recock. Has anyone used this dry fire device? How does a snap cap NOT prevent an AD????? If there is a snap cap round in the gun it cannot chamber or fire a round. No advice on this item, it looks to be a delrin fake BCG, waste of 30 bucks. Just make sure the gun is unloaded and fire away, pull charging handle back and repeat. If you let dumb*** people play with your guns then i like this device. Put this in place of the BCG and even with ammo in said dumb***'s hand he still could not fire it....Hmm But i dont let people touch my guns when im not watching. |
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Any time the gun is mechanically capable of firing, someone can goof and get a live round into the picture. It shouldn't happen but it has, thousands of times.
After nearly 50 years of shooting, including 30+ as LE and LE firearms instructor; I've never head an AD. That's not because I'm so brilliant, but because I'm careful. I know that I can make a mistake. A device that makes dry firing both safer and more convenient sounds like a good idea, IF it works. Edited to add: Thanks to 458winmag for his comments, the one from Fulton is cheaper and apparently takes even less movement to recock. I'll try one and see what it's like. |
| When I used to dryfire a lot, practicing for highpower, I would take out the firing pin and put a little rubber o-ring over it, so it sat against the flange or whatever at the back. Prevented the pin from hitting the bolt carrier when I pulled the trigger. I wasn't worried about hurting the rifle, it just "felt" better to me. |
| How can you AD while dry firing? Or do we have a new meaning for "dry"? If you experience an AD while dry firing, the operator head space and timing is completely frakked up. Don't waste your money on dry fire anything, a dry fire is part of the function check for the M/AR series anyway. |
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I ordered it from Midway and it works as advertised. I see it as one less part being stressed from dry-firing. Go for it. 
http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseProducts.aspx?&tabId=4&categoryId=17596&categoryString=655***10558***&brandId=2566 |
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How can you AD while dry firing? Or do we have a new meaning for "dry"? If you experience an AD while dry firing, the operator head space and timing is completely frakked up. Don't waste your money on dry fire anything, a dry fire is part of the function check for the M/AR series anyway. I'm sure that every one of the thousands of guys who've had an AD/ND while dry firing, would have said the same thing 30 seconds before it happened. |
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How can you AD while dry firing? Or do we have a new meaning for "dry"? If you experience an AD while dry firing, the operator head space and timing is completely frakked up. Don't waste your money on dry fire anything, a dry fire is part of the function check for the M/AR series anyway. I'm sure that every one of the thousands of guys who've had an AD/ND while dry firing, would have said the same thing 30 seconds before it happened. If people would pull their heads out where the sun shines we wouldn't have crap like this. A gun product for people who shouldn't own guns. (If you need one, you shouldn't own guns) IMO. 
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| Plenty of very well known shooters Dry Fire practice while working on their drawstroke at the same time no less, without any snap caps, 3 gunners and USPSA shooters over on Brianenous.com have debated this and it is a wash, you CAN use snap caps, but any competent individual who checks his chamber and is acting responsible should not have an issue, period. |
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No device is a good substitute for learning and practicing safe firearms handling. If you're likely to A/D by forgetting to clear the chamber before dry firing, then you're just as likely to some time forget to put the device in place and "dry fire" on a functioning bolt with the same result.
Now if the device makes it easier to recock the hammer while dry-firing then maybe it has some use. I can see if you're practicing your trigger control from a bench rest then you don't want to have to raise up and shift the rifle's position to charge the handle. |
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Seeing the nomenclature change would be a good start. The very notion of an "accidental" discharge is utter horseshit. This almost implies that it wasn't the operators fault. They are ALL negligent discharges  Agreed 100%, I do not call them AD's they are ND's. |
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Seeing the nomenclature change would be a good start. The very notion of an "accidental" discharge is utter horseshit. This almost implies that it wasn't the operators fault. They are ALL negligent discharges I agree when it comes to talk of an accidental discharge during an activity like dry firing - if you get a bang instead of a click when you're dry firing, there was some negligence involved. However, I disagree that there is no such thing as an accidental discharge - if you're at the range, with your weapon pointed safely downrange, and you flip off the safety while your finger is no where near the trigger and the weapon discharges because of a previously unknown mechanical defect, there's no negligence there. That's an AD. Now, obviously, that's an extremely small subset of the "bang instead of click" moments, but they do exist. |
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Seeing the nomenclature change would be a good start. The very notion of an "accidental" discharge is utter horseshit. This almost implies that it wasn't the operators fault. They are ALL negligent discharges I agree when it comes to talk of an accidental discharge during an activity like dry firing - if you get a bang instead of a click when you're dry firing, there was some negligence involved. However, I disagree that there is no such thing as an accidental discharge - if you're at the range, with your weapon pointed safely downrange, and you flip off the safety while your finger is no where near the trigger and the weapon discharges because of a previously unknown mechanical defect, there's no negligence there. That's an AD. Now, obviously, that's an extremely small subset of the "bang instead of click" moments, but they do exist. I had a slam fire once-this was back when I was a new reloader and I wasn't experienced enough to know what I didn't know. While it could be argued that the slam fire was accidental, it was still due to my negligence of not knowing about soft primers vs free floating firing pins. I damn near shat myself when that happened-thank Christ I was on target when I closed the bolt. Got home that day and used my kinetic bullet puller to tear down over 900 rounds worth of reloads
For a mechanical issue like a broken disco or something causing a discharge I think I'd put that under the umbrella of a malfunction, rather than an AD. Maybe I'm splitting hairs though. |
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I'm still confused on this whole "ND while dry-firing" thing. Maybe I am doing it wrong. Here's how I do it, so if my technique is incorrect, someone let me know.
Step 1 - Remove rifle from storage location (I have a safe, some folks use a closet, under the bed, whatever) Step 2 - Remove magazine if any, pull bolt to rear, inspect chamber, remove chambered round, if any, return mag, and any rounds to storage location Step 3 - Take rifle, sans magazine and ammo to "dry-fire" location of choice. I use my living room most often. Step 4 - With unloaded rifle, sans magazine, put weapon to shoulder, obtain proper sight picture, let out breath, hold, squeeze trigger. Step 5 - Via charging handle, retract bolt enough to reset trigger. Step 6 - Repeat Steps 4 & 5 until termination of "dry-fire" session. Step 7 - Return rifle to owners desired storage condition, ie, empty, loaded, mag in, mag out, whatever. Now, what I am reading here, is that somehow, some folks experience an introduction of ammunition (and not just any ammo, mind you, but the correct caliber of ammo for the weapon being "dry-fired") into the chamber at some point during what I have labeled Step 3 and Step 4, or perhaps sometime between Steps 3, 4, & 5. What I do not understand is how, if live ammunition (be it correct or incorrect caliber) and the proper magazine for the weapon being "dry-fired" is not present, and presumably the individual involved in "dry-firing" said weapon does not put his head up his ass, grab a fuckin live round, insert it into the damned rifle, and pull the trigger, how then does anyone have any type of weapons discharge during "dry-fire" practice. Obviously if you chamber a live round and pull the trigger, you are not, by definition, engaged in "dry-fire" practice, so again, with great confusion, I ask, "How the fuck do bullets get into the gun?" If some of you have untrained bullets lying around that just jump into your chambers on a whim, just to fuck with you 'n shit, ya'all need to lay down the law and show them who's boss. I beat the fuck outta this .22lr round one time when if rolled off the table uncommanded. Beat its fuckin ass right there in front of all my other ammo. Motherfuckers aint so much as scrathed their ass without permission since. I understand that some firearms owners may stumble across the dreaded "Jihadi" bullets. This is very unfortunate, You cant trust them little fuckers, as they always insert themselves into "unloaded guns", the one you knew was unloaded and did not bother to check before pulling the trigger. These evil little rounds are always trying to kill you or someone close to you. If you are fortunate and only put a hole into the ceiling or momma's favorite lamp, remember this is Gods way of telling you that you are way too stupid to own a gun. You need to sell them all right away and take up needle-point. |
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... with great confusion, I ask, "How the fuck do bullets get into the gun?" ... Usually, bullets get into the gun by being part of what we call a "cartridge". 
People make mistakes with their vocabulary, people make mistakes with gun handling. Being smart and being careful will reduce the number of mistakes but the number never gets to zero. Read post #12 in this thread; if you have that much experience and never had an AD/ND then I'm much more interested in your wisdom. For all those who got their panties in a knot because I mentioned the idea of additional dry firing safety with this device, relax. My biggest interest is the ease of re-cocking. Yes, I'm lazy. Yes, I'm careful. My choice. |
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I have had the device that fits into the BCG to prevent the hammer from striking the firing pin for a while now, and basically I've stopped using it.
It does help in resetting the hammer, but only slightly. You really don't need to pull the charging handle very far to set the hammer. After a while I found that the feel of the dry fire unit was starting to get gummy and messed up the feel of the trigger pull. Yes, the trigger pull was crisper without the dry-fire device installed. I was using an Accuracy Speaks trigger at the time and there may have been some compatibility issues, I never investigated this further and have since changed to a Geissle. I can see using the dry fire device as a way to prevent unauthorized use of the rifle as you need to have some basic knowledge of the gun to take it apart and figure out what is preventing it from firing. You can, with the device installed, load a magazine and chamber a bullet, but the hammer will never hit the firing pin with the dry fire device installed. Of course it could screw you up too if you suddenly find you need a rifle right NOW. YMMV |
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Oh, Ive had an ND, once long ago when I was much younger and far less experienced. I was not, however, conducting "dry-fire" training when it occurred. Had I been of that mindset, I would not have had the ND, as there woud have been no ammo anywhere near the gun, nor would a magazine have been present. I fucked up, plain and simple, but I did not set out to pull the trigger when I picked up the rifle, unlike the intentional trigger pull of a "dry-fire" session.
Again, when your stated purpose is "dry-fire" training, where you intend to cock the firearm and pull the trigger, the introduction of bullets (as in beans, bullets, bandaids - a Marine thing) to the equation does not make it a "dry-fire" exercise. Here's the thing, if you do not trust yourself enough to not "accidently" chamber a round when "dry-firing" how do you trust yourself to remember to install some fancy "dry-fire" device. Bust my balls for the ND all you want, Ill never hide the fact that I've had one, and I have freely admitted that in training sessions both in the service and in civilian life. But if you plan a "dry-fire" session, and fail to take adequate precautions beforehand, you really dont have any business "dry-firing" in the first place. |
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Another use for the dry fire device in question would be as a joke.
Insert the device into the AR of an unsuspecting fellow student at a carbine class and watch him do clearance drills as his weapon fails to fire over and over again. Be prepared to run when he finds out.
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| how about just dry fire with no snap cap or any other gizmo just make damn sure the guns not loaded. That way your chamber is empty and you dont risk putting a live round in instead of your snap cap. If you pull the bolt back and visually look inside the chamber and see nothing but chamber, then proceed to dry fire. If there is something in their, get it the hell out. Its not that difficult to stay away from all your ammo and mags while you do this...rounds wont just jump into a different room into your chamber. |
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