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Posted: 3/2/2009 8:02:14 AM EDT
THE GUY AT THE COUNTER TOLD ME IT WAS CHROME LINED THEN I HET HOME AND THE BOOK SAYS CHROMOLY. YES I KNOW THE DIFFERENCE. I THINK I'M GONNA TAKE IT BACK .
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| i also was not real thrilled with a dpms , not that i have a reason to to be it's just that i have a bushy and love it. They had a 16' bushy but the wiggle between the upper and lower was unbelievable and the guy at the counter said a dpms is just as good as a bushy , so i biught it . now i'm freaking out . not chrome-lined and it says in the book not to use imported ammp . that means no wolf . i called and they said i could bring it back and trade it for another if i wanted .....so what do i do ? |
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Howabout a little research before you plunk down $1000 for a rifle. you can come on here to bitch for making a bad purchase but you didnt come on here to research before you spent the money. your next thread will probably be that Wolf ammo sucks because it chokes in your non chrome lined, non 5.56 chambered AR.
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i also was not real thrilled with a dpms , not that i have a reason to to be it's just that i have a bushy and love it. They had a 16' bushy but the wiggle between the upper and lower was unbelievable and the guy at the counter said a dpms is just as good as a bushy , so i bought it . now i'm freaking out . not chrome-lined and it says in the book not to use imported ammo . that means no wolf . i called and they said i could bring it back and trade it for another if i wanted .....so what do i do ? You can shoot any .223 or 5.56 ammo (if its chambered 5.56) no matter were it was made, do you think our military shoot all American made ammo through their guns DPMS or not. Your GTG on the ammo dilemma. |
| Go to the DPMS web site and print out the pages showing the same rifle with a chrome lined barrel and one with just a chrome-moly barrel with the prices listed, then take the rifle back and point out the error. If they won't take it back then show them the printed pages and maybe they will refund the difference in price or at least give you a credit that you can use to buy ammo or accessories. |
| Chrome lining is critical if you actualy shoot in all types of weasther and climate changes...if its just a range gun no worries...if your gonna stake your life on it then get the chromelining.Try taking a carbine course in 90 degree heat and humidity,wet steamy weather with an unlined barrel and dont clean it for a day and see what happens. |
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Chrome lining is critical if you actualy shoot in all types of weasther and climate changes...if its just a range gun no worries...if your gonna stake your life on it then get the chromelining.Try taking a carbine course in 90 degree heat and humidity,wet steamy weather with an unlined barrel and dont clean it for a day and see what happens. Bingo. These people sayign it doesn't matter must have the luxury of knowing they will always be able to keep their rifle immaculate. |
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I guess I am old fashioned.
military steel ammo needs chrome lining, I always thought and lead bullets wont need it. not to mention what the corrosive ammo is going to do to the bore when its humid or left sitting by mistake, like others have pointed out. is there a good section around here for barrels......like lengths, what to use,accuracy expectations,and the good ole chrome lined vs steel argument? |
| Did you actually inspect the rifle? Any amount of light down the bore and you can easily tell its chrome lined. If they told you to bring back and they'd give you another, I'd take it back and get the bushy. If the play bugs you, get an accuwedge or o ring and you'll be set. |
| Just to be clear a Chromoly barrel may or may not be chrome lined. For the record most barrels are produced using a Chrome Molybdenum alloy thus the Chrome/Moly name. They use either 4140 or 4150 steel with 4150 being slightly better using more Chrome. A chrome lining is added after the barrel is bored which makes a Chrome lined barrel more expensive. A Chrome lined barrel will be easier to clean and can withstand more shots but also has a slight accuracy drop vs non lined barrels. With that said yours may or may not be Chrome lined. Don't be confused by the term Chromoly vs Chrome lined barrel. |
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I have a chrome lined DPMS upper on a rifle that I built a ways back. It gets over 110 here consistantly in Tucson, and it can get very humid during the monsoons. I have shot every kind of ammo imaginable out of that thing with not one problem, but I am one of those guys who actually cleans their rifles after I shoot them, you have to here in the desert. I would do the same thing if the upper was not chrome lined because I take care of my rifle and if I had problems with it I would correct it, but after 10,000 + rounds of no problems it aint broke so I don't have to fix it.
My DPMS is not my SHTF or go to rifle, just a fun plinker that I have abused the shit out of and it keeps working. When I first bought it, I read about how you aren't supposed to shoot Wolf or Bear out of it, but as I researched I learned that they just have that in case you do shoot cheap ammo and there is a problem then they wont fix it because that is where a lot problems for some come from. You have the same chances of problems with steel cases ammo out of a DPMS than you would with a Sabre, Noveske, LMT, Colt, etc.... It is what you do to correct those problems that makes or brakes it, plus some rifles just don't like steel cases ammo, but if your DPMS shoots it then go for it, they aren't going to come to your house and take it away becuase you shot Wolf out of it and if you did have a problem with Wolf they would never know you shot Wolf to void the warranty. I don't know what you paid for it, but if you like it and got a good deal, then all is well. Just because it is not chrome lined doesn't make it a POS, you just have to clean the bore after you shoot it just like you would if it were any other rifle and you should have no problems and lifetime of happy shooting. DPMS is world's largest producer of AR-15 parts and rifles, they are doing something right, and the one I have works perfectly. Hope I eased your worrying a little. |
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Just to be clear a Chromoly barrel may or may not be chrome lined. For the record most barrels are produced using a Chrome Molybdenum alloy thus the Chrome/Moly name. They use either 4140 or 4150 steel with 4150 being slightly better using more Chrome. A chrome lining is added after the barrel is bored which makes a Chrome lined barrel more expensive. A Chrome lined barrel will be easier to clean and can withstand more shots but also has a slight accuracy drop vs non lined barrels. With that said yours may or may not be Chrome lined. Don't be confused by the term Chromoly vs Chrome lined barrel. Just an FYI...4150 does not use more chrome (chromium), it contains more carbon than 4140. The rest is accurate. |
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Guys, guys, guys, guys!
Chromly Barreling refers to the type of tool steel used to make said barrel! 41XX: Cromium 0.50% - 0.95%, Molybdenum 0.12% - 0.30%. That is the possible composition to said steel. Nothing to do with chrome lining. I suggest going to the Industry Forum and/or DPMS. |
Hanging around forums will make you see stars when something seems out of line! How did we ever get along in the Corps with non-chrome lined Colts with wobbly uppers? We had an extra gage that's how. If a rifle can last for years "In" service without a chrome bore then I bet it can last the average civie a few also. 
On the other hand if you were told one thing and received another then make them make it right! |
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Guys, guys, guys, guys! Chromly Barreling refers to the type of tool steel used to make said barrel! 41XX: Cromium 0.50% - 0.95%, Molybdenum 0.12% - 0.30%. That is the possible composition to said steel. Nothing to do with chrome lining. I suggest going to the Industry Forum and/or DPMS. You are right, except that 4140 vs. 4150 has NOTHING to do with the chromium content. It is the carbon content. Also, neither is tool steel. |
| I think there is way to much hype about chrome lined barrels, people make it sound like if it is'nt chrome lined it's a pos. I have several older rifles in the 1940's and 50's and the bores still look great and they are not chrome lined. If you are going to severely mistreat a weapon or be out in extreme weather constantly there may be a need for chrome lining. You never see a match grade barrel with chrome lining. If you like the DPMS then keep it. I have an RRA without chrome lining and I really like it, it is guaranteed to one moa and the barrels with chrome lining are guaranteed to 1 1/2 moa, go figure. Chrome lined barrels will last a little longer but I have never shot out a regular barrel so I guess I am gtg. I do not see anything wrong with either. |
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I think there is way to much hype about chrome lined barrels, people make it sound like if it is'nt chrome lined it's a pos. I have several older rifles in the 1940's and 50's and the bores still look great and they are not chrome lined. If you are going to severely mistreat a weapon or be out in extreme weather constantly there may be a need for chrome lining. You never see a match grade barrel with chrome lining. If you like the DPMS then keep it. I have an RRA without chrome lining and I really like it, it is guaranteed to one moa and the barrels with chrome lining are guaranteed to 1 1/2 moa, go figure. Chrome lined barrels will last a little longer but I have never shot out a regular barrel so I guess I am gtg. I do not see anything wrong with either. Exactly!! I have had and have a lot of different black rifles, or FDE rifles  , but if you take care of them, then what the hell does it matter?? I don't think that if you put two in the chest of bad guy, that he is going to say that wasn't a chrome lined barrel you idiot and run off, he is going to die. That is what these rifles are designed for and they do it well. If you got a rifle that works and does the job you need it to, then two tears in a bucket, phuck it! You should also get what you paid for, and if the author of this thread was charged for a chrome lined and did not get one under false pretneses, then that should be rectified.
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Guys, guys, guys, guys! Chromly Barreling refers to the type of tool steel used to make said barrel! 41XX: Cromium 0.50% - 0.95%, Molybdenum 0.12% - 0.30%. That is the possible composition to said steel. Nothing to do with chrome lining. I suggest going to the Industry Forum and/or DPMS. You are right, except that 4140 vs. 4150 has NOTHING to do with the chromium content. It is the carbon content. Also, neither is tool steel. I know. The last two digits of 41XX deal with carbon content. The other alloying elements aren't mentioned in specific quantities within the AISI designation itself, but will be listed as such when you look at the composition. Plain carbon steel (10XX) has, other than iron and carbon, up to Manganese 1.65% max, Silicon 0.60% max, and copper 0.60% max. Anything else is at least designated a high-alloy steel. However, something at the back of my head tells me 41XX does fall under the tool steel category. I'll have to get back to you on that one! 
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Guys, guys, guys, guys! Chromly Barreling refers to the type of tool steel used to make said barrel! 41XX: Cromium 0.50% - 0.95%, Molybdenum 0.12% - 0.30%. That is the possible composition to said steel. Nothing to do with chrome lining. I suggest going to the Industry Forum and/or DPMS. You are right, except that 4140 vs. 4150 has NOTHING to do with the chromium content. It is the carbon content. Also, neither is tool steel. I know. The last two digits of 41XX deal with carbon content. The other alloying elements aren't mentioned in specific quantities within the AISI designation itself, but will be listed as such when you look at the composition. Plain carbon steel has, other than iron and carbon, up to Manganese 1.65% max, Silicon 0.60% max, and copper 0.60% max. Anything else is at least designated a high-alloy steel. However, something at the back of my head tells me 41XX does fall under the tool steel category. I'll have to get back to you on that one! It can be used as a mild tool steel, but is generally not classed as a tool steel without modification. ETA..After further research, I see a lot of "tool steel" references regarding 4140. Although, it is not a heavy duty type tool steel. |
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It can be used as a mild tool steel, but is generally not classed as a tool steel without modification. ETA..After further research, I see a lot of "tool steel" references regarding 4140. Although, it is not a heavy duty type tool steel. [/quote] I think that was the nagging in the back of my head. 
What really determines what a tool steel is the refineing process, because almost any steel can be used on the fly for tool applications. E.G. 1095 plain carbon and W-1 tool steel are compositionally the same, except that W-1 is refined with much more precision, less scrap thrown in, and trying to get the amount of alloys perfect, with little to no impurities. And the difference really shines through! W-1 ranks fairly high on the toughness scale, only losing to something like S-7 Shock steel. |
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Hanging around forums will make you see stars when something seems out of line! How did we ever get along in the Corps with non-chrome lined Colts with wobbly uppers? We had an extra gage that's how. If a rifle can last for years "In" service without a chrome bore then I bet it can last the average civie a few also.
On the other hand if you were told one thing and received another then make them make it right! thank you, finally someone actually read what i wrote and understood what i was saying . TO EVERYBODY EXCEPT ONE PERSON THANKS FOR YOUR HELP . i returned the dpms and got the bushy...... again thanks for your input . this can be a very good site to learn about ar's there is a lot of guys here with lots of info that can really help (especially if your like me and none of your friends have ar's) i guess some people who i won't name just jump to conclusions and start judging . btw i didn't even say anything about it not shooting 5.56 , because it would . |
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I think there is way to much hype about chrome lined barrels, people make it sound like if it is'nt chrome lined it's a pos. I have several older rifles in the 1940's and 50's and the bores still look great and they are not chrome lined. If you are going to severely mistreat a weapon or be out in extreme weather constantly there may be a need for chrome lining. You never see a match grade barrel with chrome lining. If you like the DPMS then keep it. I have an RRA without chrome lining and I really like it, it is guaranteed to one moa and the barrels with chrome lining are guaranteed to 1 1/2 moa, go figure. Chrome lined barrels will last a little longer but I have never shot out a regular barrel so I guess I am gtg. I do not see anything wrong with either. FNH's tactical rifles ruitinely shoot 1/2 MOA and the higher-end ones are all Chrome Lined. So much for CL not being accurate... Most people will never even FIND corrosive .223/5.56 ammo...(reference to another post) I guess you are very lucky to have seen chrome chip on 2 rifles considering the military doesn't seem to have any issues with it in all of theirs (another post...) 4140/4150 are NOT tool steel. Tool steel has an RC of 56-58+ normally. A2 is a tool steel. It is air-hardened to 57-59RC normally. 4140 is a barrel steel. It is hardened to 28-low 30's RC normally. 4150 can be a bit harder, high 30's ish. Neither would last for shit if used as a "tool steel" is meant to be. To the OP: Why the hell would you spend $1,000 on something you know nothing about just because someone who 9 to 5's it behind a counter (possibly for a commission...) tells you Product A=Product B? If they will take it back, do it NOW, because you will not be happy until you do. Stuff the money in your pocket until you have thoroughly researched the AR-15, 5.56 and .223 chamber differences, and know something about the QC and SOP's for the manufacturer who's product you intend to purchase. If they won't take it back, be glad you learned this valuable lesson with a $1,000 rifle and not a $40,000 car/boat/whatever. |
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