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Posted: 2/20/2009 2:48:43 PM EDT
| I have used CLP for 12 years now to lube my AR's. I recently ordered some TW25B grease just to give it a try. Anyone else use this stuff? If so, where and how much do you use? |
| That lube is awesome, I run it on my rifle out here in the AZ desert. It stays on your BCG forever and does not burn off. CLP is lame compared to TW25. You don't get as much dirt/debris/residue all over your BCG/chamber either with the grease compared to a wet lube like CLP. You don't need to use a lot of this stuff. If you can see it on your parts you didn't rub it in enough/used to much so keep that in mind. It works at the microscopic level so rub it in nice and good where ever you put it. Excellent choice. |
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Works great on the bolt and carrier group. Put a little on your fingers and lube the whole unit. Yup, I've been using it for the years, and the biggest problem I've seen is that people use too much of it. All it takes is a sheen on the surface, if you are seeing the white color, you are laying it on too heavy. |
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I have used it...but to be honest, the AR is more of an Oil system than a Grease system.
TW 25B was not designed to be used in ARs...the problem is that the AR dumps a lot of fouling into the grease which makes it into a nasty paste that becomes sludge and slows down the rifle. IMO, oil is better since it stays softer and seems to be better able to allow the fouling to move away as it is pushed by moving parts. When I would lube with TW 25B, I would feel the rifle getting sluggish at around 700 rounds or so. With an oil based lube, I can go a thousand rounds or more by just applying a little more oil now and then. With TW, I had to actually clean the old lube off, not just apply more. I have used TW 25B on belt fed weapons though and it worked great in those applications...they were not getting as dirty. |
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I have used TW 25B on belt fed weapons though and it worked great in those applications...they were not getting as dirty. SAWs and M240s get just as dirty as the M16 series, the excess is blown out the side of the carrier. The most I have ever gone with TW on an M4 was around 1500 round without cleaning, or almost 4 times my combat load of ammunition. |
| I have been using it in my AR for 2 years now, Rifle does not get as sluggish in very cold weather, as it did with oil dripping. Like others have said just a light covering on parts rub it in with fingers or paint brush, also works great on glock connectors no more stiff triggers at work. When I say cold I mean cold, this year I shot rifle in -24 degree weather, wind chill about -40. |
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I have used TW 25B on belt fed weapons though and it worked great in those applications...they were not getting as dirty. SAWs and M240s get just as dirty as the M16 series, the excess is blown out the side of the carrier. The most I have ever gone with TW on an M4 was around 1500 round without cleaning, or almost 4 times my combat load of ammunition. SAWs and other gas piston weapons are not dumping hot gasses from burning gunpowder into the lube. They get dirty...no doubt...but it is not exactly the same as an M-4. I use TW 25B and it is great...for grease applications. There are jobs that are better done with grease and there are some that are better done with oil. IMO, the M4 is better with a heavy oil than grease... Here is what I tend to agree with. It is from Larry Vickers- "Last thing I will cover is choice of lubricant. First off any lube is better than no lube. Just because you don't have your favorite synthetic gun oil doesn't mean you don't lube your weapon. With that being said in my experience the thin light lubes like WD40 and RemOil are to be avoided. They will provide a rust barrier and that is about it; they are not suitable for moving parts lubricant. There are alot of lubes on the market but I still like TW25B for a grease type lube and Militec for a wet lube. My friend Ken Hackathorn swears by aircraft grade Lubriplate and has used it for years as a grease type lube. The grease type lubricants require more effort to apply but tend to stay put longer. TW25B is superb for crew served weapons like belt feed machine guns and is the best lubricant I have ever seen for sandy or wet environments. In my old unit we affectionately call it 'desert jizz' because once we started using it the reliability of our belt fed weapons increased dramatically in extreme environments such as the desert. Highly recommended. There are times where applying a grease lubricant is a pain such as high volume range fire sessions. For those applications as well as general purpose use I have used and like Militec wet lube. From my experience it works well even in temperature extremes and is the right balance between being too thin to do the job and so thick it gums up when cold. Keep in mind it is easy to apply so it is easy to come off also. With wet lubes like Militec you have to lubricate your weapon more frequently than with a grease like TW25B." |
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I have used TW 25B on belt fed weapons though and it worked great in those applications...they were not getting as dirty. SAWs and M240s get just as dirty as the M16 series, the excess is blown out the side of the carrier. The most I have ever gone with TW on an M4 was around 1500 round without cleaning, or almost 4 times my combat load of ammunition. SAWs and other gas piston weapons are not dumping hot gasses from burning gunpowder into the lube. They get dirty...no doubt...but it is not exactly the same as an M-4. I use TW 25B and it is great...for grease applications. There are jobs that are better done with grease and there are some that are better done with oil. IMO, the M4 is better with a heavy oil than grease... Here is what I tend to agree with. It is from Larry Vickers- "Last thing I will cover is choice of lubricant. First off any lube is better than no lube. Just because you don't have your favorite synthetic gun oil doesn't mean you don't lube your weapon. With that being said in my experience the thin light lubes like WD40 and RemOil are to be avoided. They will provide a rust barrier and that is about it; they are not suitable for moving parts lubricant. There are alot of lubes on the market but I still like TW25B for a grease type lube and Militec for a wet lube. My friend Ken Hackathorn swears by aircraft grade Lubriplate and has used it for years as a grease type lube. The grease type lubricants require more effort to apply but tend to stay put longer. TW25B is superb for crew served weapons like belt feed machine guns and is the best lubricant I have ever seen for sandy or wet environments. In my old unit we affectionately call it 'desert jizz' because once we started using it the reliability of our belt fed weapons increased dramatically in extreme environments such as the desert. Highly recommended. There are times where applying a grease lubricant is a pain such as high volume range fire sessions. For those applications as well as general purpose use I have used and like Militec wet lube. From my experience it works well even in temperature extremes and is the right balance between being too thin to do the job and so thick it gums up when cold. Keep in mind it is easy to apply so it is easy to come off also. With wet lubes like Militec you have to lubricate your weapon more frequently than with a grease like TW25B." Yes. Which is why one should use Mil-Comm MC2500 for the bulk of AR lubrication, other than a dab of TW25B on the carrier rails, cam pin and hammer face. Been doing this for years in conditions from -10F to 90F+. Nevertheless, either of the two I find greatly superior to CLP. I just love every opportunity to say this - CLP is a lousy lubricant. |
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I have used CLP for 12 years now to lube my AR's. I recently ordered some TW25B grease just to give it a try. Anyone else use this stuff? If so, where and how much do you use? 1. DO NOT OVER APPLY. CLEAN WEAPON. 2. The shank of the cam pin (i.e., where the wear areas are indicated) and the helix slot in the bolt carrier it rides in. 3. The four bearing rails of the bolt carrier (two on either side of the gas key) and the two lower rails at 5 and 7 o'clock). DO NOT SPREAD ALL OVER THE BOLT CARRIER (BC) AS SUGGESTED ABOVE, as 90% of the BC exterior surface never touches the inside diameter of the upper receiver during operation, likewise, no need to lube in there either, as the TW-25 you apply to the BC rails will lube the interior upper receiver surfaces they ride in just fine. 4. If the sides of your gas key show wear (shinny ?) apply a little. 5. Face of the hammer where the BC cams it backwards during cocking. ALSO, DO NOT SQUIT IT DOWN THE GAS KEY AS SUGGESTED ABOVE. That dumb idea goes back to the very early Viet-Nam days when we used LSA. This was an Army Maintenance Department brain fart intended to keep Soldiers from removing the bolt, firing pin, retaining pin, etc., (in order to apply lubricant) from the carier and losing parts. The last thing you need in the gas expansion interior is too much lube to combine with firing residue. 6. Remove bolt from carrier. Apply a small amount of TW-25 to your baby finger's fingerprint, and spread evenly inside the bolt carrier where the central support bearing of the bolt rides, i.e. the forward "half"of this inside BC diameter. 7. Apply a small amount to the "tail piece" of the bolt and speard evenly with your fingers. |
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ALSO, DO NOT SQUIT IT DOWN THE GAS KEY AS SUGGESTED ABOVE. That dumb idea goes back to the very early Viet-Nam days when we used LSA. This was an Army Maintenance Department brain fart intended to keep Soldiers from removing the bolt, firing pin, retaining pin, etc., (in order to apply lubricant) from the carier and losing parts. The last thing you need in the gas expansion interior is too much lube to combine with firing residue. It seemed to actually work out in Al Anbar though. The reason we did this was 1) we put very little lube on the weapons other than bearing surfaces because of the often occuring shimals that turned the sky brown with dust would coat everything not in zip lock back with dust. 2) If you are going to lube the expansion chamber behind the bolt, it is going mix no matter what. With a dab in key, it only mixed when the weapon fired prior to go off the base on patrol when we fired our test rounds vice while sitting in the rack. Since less surface area was coated with lube prior to firing, less sand accumulated in the weapon and the weapon's expansion chamber area. I used this technique for 7 month in one of the roughest areas in Al Anabr with sometimes conducting several outside the wire patrols 5-6 days a week, on Fridays, the Arab sabbath, we conducted our team reset training which consisted of shooting our UBL of ammo (13 Mags) in various drills. In all that time I cannot remember all many malfs (I did replace all my mags prior to deploying and used new CS springs and MP followers). |
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The stuff is a bit pricey.
Super Lube performs just as well and is cheap. http://www.acehardwaresuperstore.com/super-lube-synthetic-grease-3-oz-p-68041.html?ref=42 |
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I have used CLP for 12 years now to lube my AR's. I recently ordered some TW25B grease just to give it a try. Anyone else use this stuff? If so, where and how much do you use? 1. DO NOT OVER APPLY. CLEAN WEAPON. 2. The shank of the cam pin (i.e., where the wear areas are indicated) and the helix slot in the bolt carrier it rides in. 3. The four bearing rails of the bolt carrier (two on either side of the gas key) and the two lower rails at 5 and 7 o'clock). DO NOT SPREAD ALL OVER THE BOLT CARRIER (BC) AS SUGGESTED ABOVE, as 90% of the BC exterior surface never touches the inside diameter of the upper receiver during operation, likewise, no need to lube in there either, as the TW-25 you apply to the BC rails will lube the interior upper receiver surfaces they ride in just fine. 4. If the sides of your gas key show wear (shinny ?) apply a little. 5. Face of the hammer where the BC cams it backwards during cocking. ALSO, DO NOT SQUIT IT DOWN THE GAS KEY AS SUGGESTED ABOVE. That dumb idea goes back to the very early Viet-Nam days when we used LSA. This was an Army Maintenance Department brain fart intended to keep Soldiers from removing the bolt, firing pin, retaining pin, etc., (in order to apply lubricant) from the carier and losing parts. The last thing you need in the gas expansion interior is too much lube to combine with firing residue. 6. Remove bolt from carrier. Apply a small amount of TW-25 to your baby finger's fingerprint, and spread evenly inside the bolt carrier where the central support bearing of the bolt rides, i.e. the forward "half"of this inside BC diameter. 7. Apply a small amount to the "tail piece" of the bolt and speard evenly with your fingers. I like it.  Especialy #3. Milcom's costly enough without wasting it. I use a combo of Milcom on contact surfaces, and CLP for most other things. And while I like CLP for a lot of applications, TW25B gets the nod for real wear and tear areas.
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I have used CLP for 12 years now to lube my AR's. I recently ordered some TW25B grease just to give it a try. Anyone else use this stuff? If so, where and how much do you use? 1. DO NOT OVER APPLY. CLEAN WEAPON. 2. The shank of the cam pin (i.e., where the wear areas are indicated) and the helix slot in the bolt carrier it rides in. 3. The four bearing rails of the bolt carrier (two on either side of the gas key) and the two lower rails at 5 and 7 o'clock). DO NOT SPREAD ALL OVER THE BOLT CARRIER (BC) AS SUGGESTED ABOVE, as 90% of the BC exterior surface never touches the inside diameter of the upper receiver during operation, likewise, no need to lube in there either, as the TW-25 you apply to the BC rails will lube the interior upper receiver surfaces they ride in just fine. 4. If the sides of your gas key show wear (shinny ?) apply a little. 5. Face of the hammer where the BC cams it backwards during cocking. ALSO, DO NOT SQUIT IT DOWN THE GAS KEY AS SUGGESTED ABOVE. That dumb idea goes back to the very early Viet-Nam days when we used LSA. This was an Army Maintenance Department brain fart intended to keep Soldiers from removing the bolt, firing pin, retaining pin, etc., (in order to apply lubricant) from the carier and losing parts. The last thing you need in the gas expansion interior is too much lube to combine with firing residue. 6. Remove bolt from carrier. Apply a small amount of TW-25 to your baby finger's fingerprint, and spread evenly inside the bolt carrier where the central support bearing of the bolt rides, i.e. the forward "half"of this inside BC diameter. 7. Apply a small amount to the "tail piece" of the bolt and speard evenly with your fingers. I like it. Especialy #3. Milcom's costly enough without wasting it. I use a combo of Milcom on contact surfaces, and CLP for most other things. And while I like CLP for a lot of applications, TW25B gets the nod for real wear and tear areas.
I have a feeling I'll do the same and use both on my AR and my pistols. Probably use the TW25 on my pistol rails and CLP on the trigger bar. |
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I have used CLP for 12 years now to lube my AR's. I recently ordered some TW25B grease just to give it a try. Anyone else use this stuff? If so, where and how much do you use? 1. DO NOT OVER APPLY. CLEAN WEAPON. 2. The shank of the cam pin (i.e., where the wear areas are indicated) and the helix slot in the bolt carrier it rides in. 3. The four bearing rails of the bolt carrier (two on either side of the gas key) and the two lower rails at 5 and 7 o'clock). DO NOT SPREAD ALL OVER THE BOLT CARRIER (BC) AS SUGGESTED ABOVE, as 90% of the BC exterior surface never touches the inside diameter of the upper receiver during operation, likewise, no need to lube in there either, as the TW-25 you apply to the BC rails will lube the interior upper receiver surfaces they ride in just fine. 4. If the sides of your gas key show wear (shinny ?) apply a little. 5. Face of the hammer where the BC cams it backwards during cocking. ALSO, DO NOT SQUIT IT DOWN THE GAS KEY AS SUGGESTED ABOVE. That dumb idea goes back to the very early Viet-Nam days when we used LSA. This was an Army Maintenance Department brain fart intended to keep Soldiers from removing the bolt, firing pin, retaining pin, etc., (in order to apply lubricant) from the carier and losing parts. The last thing you need in the gas expansion interior is too much lube to combine with firing residue. 6. Remove bolt from carrier. Apply a small amount of TW-25 to your baby finger's fingerprint, and spread evenly inside the bolt carrier where the central support bearing of the bolt rides, i.e. the forward "half"of this inside BC diameter. 7. Apply a small amount to the "tail piece" of the bolt and speard evenly with your fingers. Sorry, I forgot #8.a. "dab a little around the outside of the gas rings..." |
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...I like it. Especialy #3. Milcom's costly enough without wasting it. I use a combo of Milcom on contact surfaces, and CLP for most other things. And while I like CLP for a lot of applications, TW25B gets the nod for real wear and tear areas.
[/quote] Yes, in cold weather, I only use TW-25 on the cam pin shank, CLP on the other surfaces as I described above. Also, in cold wx, carry your CLP in an inside pocket to keep it fluid. |
| I've been using the tw25b and the m2500 spray oil for about three years. I like them both. I bought the syringe of tw25b right before Katrina and still have over half of it left. I don't use a ton of it, a little bit goes a long way. I also use the mil-com degreaser/cleaner on my parts first and then wipe them down and either aplly the spray or the grease. |
I am a big fan of TW25B
I would echo coldblue's comment about NOT putting the grease into the gas key - the gas is going to blow it all over hells half acre into whatever runny goo that it becomes when burning gases hit grease... Not that I am sucking up to my boss, (well I am, but) coldblue is an encyclopedia on the M16 Family of weapons, I've been a professional user for 20 years, and everyday I learn something from him... |
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I would echo coldblue's comment about NOT putting the grease into the gas key - the gas is going to blow it all over hells half acre into whatever runny goo that it becomes when burning gases hit grease... Have you actually tried it? It works, never failed once in a whole bunch of two way range sessions. |
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I would echo coldblue's comment about NOT putting the grease into the gas key - the gas is going to blow it all over hells half acre into whatever runny goo that it becomes when burning gases hit grease... Have you actually tried it? It works, never failed once in a whole bunch of two way range sessions. I do not doubt for a moment that it does not inpair functioning, (I just don't think that is the best method of applying that product to the carrier's interior surfaces). I can also easily imagine newbe's over applying using this method under the all-American axium of "if one dab is recomended, then three or four are better." Obviously experiece (as discussed above) substaniates this (i.e, that it does not impair). But it is just as likely that being careful not to apply excess lube to the exterior components had as much to do with the reliable operation in Iraq as described above. That is basically what I wrote into the Operation Under Unusual Conditions section of the M16A2 Operator's Manual in 1983 after a deployment with the 82nd to Eygpt in 1981 to observe such weapon related issues, page 81 of the original printings stating lube should only be applied to the interior components using "normal" ammounts. This was later changed by the Army to 'light" as changes to this manual began to also cover the M4, and then changed back to my original text (I hope) in the most current printing that I do not have a copy of. |
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Anyone know how the TW25B product compares to the Slip EWL grease or WeaponShield's Lithishield product ... performance-wise ? I know that TW25B contains PTFE whereas (I believe) the other two don't, but I'm wondering how they "stack up" next to each other beyond that ... |
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Anyone know how the TW25B product compares to the Slip EWL grease or WeaponShield's Lithishield product ... performance-wise ? I know that TW25B contains PTFE whereas (I believe) the other two don't, but I'm wondering how they "stack up" next to each other beyond that ... I would like to know this as well... |
| I could see where there maybe a little concern about too much in the key, we used the syringe applicator, so you ended up with a dab less than the size of a pin head, the excess would be blow out the side; since so little go a long way with it a tube can last years of shooting. |
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Anyone know how the TW25B product compares to the Slip EWL grease or WeaponShield's Lithishield product ... performance-wise ? I know that TW25B contains PTFE whereas (I believe) the other two don't, but I'm wondering how they "stack up" next to each other beyond that ... I took EWL with me, my last deployment. Seems to work alright, no real issues with it. |
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Anyone know how the TW25B product compares to the Slip EWL grease or WeaponShield's Lithishield product ... performance-wise ? I know that TW25B contains PTFE whereas (I believe) the other two don't, but I'm wondering how they "stack up" next to each other beyond that ... I took EWL with me, my last deployment. Seems to work alright, no real issues with it. Would you say that each grease was used with "equal" frequency over (whatever period of) time ... And if so, did you tend to develop a certain preference for one over the other ? |
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When we were shooting more I would use the EWL, but weapons lube is one of those things that is really hard to quantify, what I posted on this subject before was
"Outside of Mk-19s most of the US weapons aren't as lube sensitive as many make them out to be, often lubrication (either lack of it, too much of it or the wrong type) is an excuse for another weapon problem, like bad mags or worn/unserviceable parts." |
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I've been using Mil-Comm products for a while now and only have positive things to say - TW25b works great.
Coldblue offers some good advice IMO. For those interested, here's a link to Mil-Comm's suggested lubrication practices for the AR-15/M-16 (PDF): Linky |
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