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Posted: 1/13/2009 12:45:32 PM EDT
| What is the outer range for a AR-15 with .223? |
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Outer range of what?
Point it at about 45 degrees, bullet will go a couple miles. Benchresting a production rifle , iron sights, with arsenal or commercial grade FMJ ammo you should be able to his a man-sized target –– hit, not group –– at 500 yards. You should be able to make business card sized groups at 100 yards. A scope will improve this accuracy considerably. So will handloading with match grade bullets. High power competitors at Camp Perry shoot 12 inch groups with iron sights at 1000 yards. They use specially prepared rifles and handloaded ammo. They are also world class shots. Varmint shooters shoot at prairie dogs at hundreds of meters. Their rifles are also hot-rodded, and have scopes, and they use handloaded ammo or accurate commercial hunting ammo. Some of these hunters are also extraordinary shots. |
| That sounds about right. I have engaged many targets at 500 meters with the M-4 its not as easy as a M-16A2 for a couple of reason. 1 the velocity is not as high which affects the trajectory, 2 the sight radius makes its harder for some people at longer ranges. Its a matter of how much you shoot your rifle and understand the trajectory. I have a 10.3 inch barrel and it is only good to 300 meters on average. However if your shooting a 20" barrel you can push it to 600 yards. |
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IIRC point target on an M4 is suppsed to be 500M and 550M for an M16A2 but it all
depends on your shooting ability. 800M for an area target for both. And that is for iron sight shooting. I have shot out to 1000M with an M16A4 accurately (minute of man) with optics, and have seen 800M out of an M4. |
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Army says using M844 an M4 is good for a point target (i.e. man) to 500 Meters (about 545yards), and to 800meters (872yards) for an area target.
With better ammo (i.e. Mk262) and/or Free Floating the barrel that can be extended a bit. So the answer is - it depends 1) On the Skill of the shooter, then 2) on the quality of the ammo, then 3) on the barrel (length. quality. and if it's free floated). |
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Quoted:
What if we are talking a 16" barrel with a 3x acog? Adding an optic is not going to change the range of a rifle. It IS going to change how far YOU can effectively see a target, and therefore engaging a target at distance will be easier by being able to see it better. |
| ok, so I am just starting out shooting my AR which is a 16" stag arms upper flat top. The reason I am asking is that I am try to decide about optics, since this gun will not be used for home defense, have a mossberg 590, but for longer range and possibly even hunting. My debate is weather to put something like an acog on it or to wait and get a longer range rifle like a remington 700 p. Any advice would be appreciated. |
| Well, I'd say go with the Remington if your looking to go long range. That's just my opinion. That's not to say that with some practice and a decent optic you couldn't go that distance. As others have said...for paper purposes, 600m is about the limit of the AR in 5.56. |
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Quoted:
With all of the answers about maximum effective range, what is the maximum until-the-bullet-drops-out-of-the-air range, assuming you're not shooting any handloaded fancy ammo and aiming horizontally at targets? The army says the maximum range (maximum distance of the bullet) is 3600 meters. There are a lot of variable to that figure but its the best estimate. Also that is aiming into the air not on a straight plane. |
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The military standard of accuracy is 4 MOA. 1 MOA is approximately 1" at 100 yards.
If your rifle shoots to 4 MOA standards, that means that it will group approximately 4" at 100 yards. Most, of course, will do much better, but 4 MOA is the military requirement. Extrapolating this out to longer ranges, 4 MOA means 8" at 200 yards, 12" at 300 yards, 16" at 400 yards, and 20" at 500 yards. The typical human chest is usually 21" or bigger wide. A rifle and rifleman that can shoot to 4 MOA accuracy should be able to inflict a chest wound on an adversary at 500 yards. This is known as the "rifleman's quarter mile". BTW, this is using iron sights. After 500 yards, however, the problem is that the front sight blade becomes so wide relative to the target, it's pretty hard to get a good POA at anything beyond 500 yards. But, back in 1967, when iron sights still ruled the battlefield, it was determined that 500 yards was about the direct-fire limit, which is all they asked of the 5.56 Nato/.223 Rem. |
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Quoted:
Still about the same. How's your shooting ability? Here I am shooting a M4A1 at 300yds and then out to 500yds. Shooters on left is shooting stock M16A2s. http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/9809george_300yd_prone3_RZ.JPG CD Once I was shooting at 300, just like your pic, and an instructor came up and tapped the heel of my left foot with the tip of his toe. The sight picture wobbled all the fuck over the place. Now I turn that toe in and lay my foot down flat on the ground. He said that not only eliminates heel flop affecting your shot, it also raises your chest, allowing breathing to affect your shot much less. Prone scores up since then. Something you might try sometime, see how it works out for you, YMMV. Out past 300, the wind becomes a lot more of a factor. The M14/M1A used to eat the M16/AR lunch at matches past 600, especially during windy events. Then some wag began rifling their barrel at 1:8 or 1:7, so as to shoot the heavier 77 to 80 grain bullets, and ever since, the match winners out to 1000 yards shoot the AR, with the M14 trying to play catch up. The impact into the earth berm of .223 rounds, on our high power range, at 300 yards, which I have to see every time to know when to pull the target to score the shot, raises enough dust I don't want to try it on myself. Most of the guys I shoot with are careful to draw a distinction between hitting the X ring at 1000, versus stopping an enemy at those ranges with .223. My M4gery, from a rest or with a sling, holds two inches at 200 yards. I'm going to try it at 300 and see what it does, then decide where to switch over to an M1A or other .308 platform. I suspect the switchover distance I eventually adopt will be between 300 and 400 yards. On a bad day when decisions aren't possible, you go with what you have, adjust to the inherent limitations of the platform and ammunition in use, and hope for the best. |
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Quoted:
ok, so I am just starting out shooting my AR which is a 16" stag arms upper flat top. The reason I am asking is that I am try to decide about optics, since this gun will not be used for home defense, have a mossberg 590, but for longer range and possibly even hunting. My debate is weather to put something like an acog on it or to wait and get a longer range rifle like a remington 700 p. Any advice would be appreciated. I got mine shooting pretty accurate so I went w/ the Trijicon Accupoint TR21R and I couldn't be more satisfied. 1.25-4x scope with BAC reticle. Use BAC 1.25 for anything you use your aimpoint on and go out to 4x for long precise shots .I shoot prairie dogs, sage rats, small birds at around 100yds-200yds+ so precision is key for me. Puting rounds on steel is day 1 stuff... You can also put a mini-RDS on almost any scope giving you the ultimate in CQB and long range versatility. Zero RDS for 25yds and zero scope for 100yds. Without mini RDS I just do a standard 50M zero... |
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Quoted:
600 yds with no wind even at that without a SPR you are pissing in the wind––-Iknow I will get flamed for this responce but so be it paper––600+ flesh and bone––––400 ETA if you read the box it says 5 miles Guy in my unit twice shot bad guys at 600 meters with M4 and ACOG. He had a bipod on his rifle. Range was confirmed with laser range finder and with a GPS. One of them spun around and expired there and the other ran off only to die about 30 meters away. |
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there seems to be some magical or mystical thing about anything past 100yds. i don't get it. get out and spend some time on the range. i've taken lots of my friends out shooting and most all of them are some what intimidated by anything over 100. many of them have scoped rifles and scoped AR's but have never shot any distance. the fundamentals of shooting apply the same up close as they do at distance. the problem is that most guys fundamentals are so jacked up that coke cans at 100 are about the max you can expect. up close you can get away with not being a good shot and having sloppy breathing and trigger control, it'll still kill a bad guy in the house. the AMU and CMP shoot 1000yd comps on a regular basis. it's more the shooter than the weapon. that's not to say that you can go out with a $500 franken AR and hang with the big dogs but you get the point. when it comes to an AR if you can properly ID a target with the naked eye then you should be able to put rounds into said target. will you kill it? that depends on a lot of things but you should be able to put holes in it. |
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