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Posted: 10/20/2008 2:02:07 PM EDT
| Any input would be appreciated. I am one of the L.E. Officers on a committee to decide which brands of carbines will be allowed for use on duty(keep in mind the carbines will be purchased by the officers). Any information including locking racks(trunk mount) suggestions are appreciated. I posted for the COMPARISON CHART link but it has not been updated. Our Chief wants us to get a locking box and cable lock like our SWAT team uses! I personally think this would waste too much time. if one of our officers is getting out the carbine the s--- has already hit the FAN and every second counts! Oh I forgot my Department services one of the largest School Districts in the U.S. and we pride ourselves in keeping the children SAFE. Please help all information is appreciated! |
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Mine stays in a soft case in my trunk. If I'm headed to a call with a weapon involved I usually try and pull over and get it out, sling it, and make it ready before I get onscene. Other officers just park far enough outside of the scene/call area to get to their trunk. We also keep a loaded magazine in the gun, but the chamber empty. That way when you grab the gun you rack it and are good to go. Some guys keep spare mags on their weapon (via any o the various contraptions out there). I keep a spare in the same compartment that my rifle is in and put it in my back pocket. Seems to work well. I usually have my rifle in hand for every call that it might be needed for. Don't expect officers to pay for any expensive racks for their vehicles, its hard enough for many to purchase their own rifles. |
| All the usual suspsects... Colt, RRA, S&W, LMT. Charles Daly seems to be a good "Colt-alternative" for a lower price. The head-honcho was on arfcom a while ago and asked about what features were desired in an AR-15. I think it has resulted in a great rifle, although I do not have any personal experience with them. |
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I would vote that individual officer purchases should be limited to factory built complete rifles from reputable companies, such as Colt, LMT, and Noveske, off the top of my head. I would also disallow any functional modifications to said weapons (installing crazy buffers, bolts, ect. ect. to include pulling barrels to install FF systems). The reason I say this is that most individual LEOs are not "gun guys," just like most soldiers, and too much leeway, and you'll end up with officers showing up with Tapco-ed out Hesse carbines, and expecting to use them on duty. And they may show up to a gun show, and if Bubba tells them that they need this super duper triple extraction BCG... with unstaked gas keys, or they take it to the corner shop to have a FF rail system put on, and Billy-Ray kinks the gas tube when installing the barrel nut, and the action binds, or the carbine short strokes, then there could be a world of problems if they ever do need to use that weapon. Having said that, I know that there are many people out there who can do these modifications, and build a much better, and more useful weapon than stock factory configurations can be. For this reason, I would suggest having a good, experienced, and very knowledgeable armorer on staff who is very familiar with the AR, and stays current on developments in the field to be available to do technical inspections of modified weapons, and sign off on whether or not they should be carried. That way, you ensure that Joe-blow patrolman is using a well built, factory standard carbine, that will be relatively reliable and functional, and at the same time, the guys who want to go above and beyond, and become infected with BRD (if they're not already) and "trick-out" their duty carbines, can use, say, an MSTN built upper, or a LaRue Stealth upper or FF rail, or what have you. IMHO, you'd keep the hobbyists happy and everyone safe, and your rifles functional. Finally, it would be key to ensure that your armorer is not a dick.  Don't know if this is something feasible for you guys, but that's what I would do, though I suppose you lose a bit of confidence in the average "trained" person to mess around with a weapon when an E5 comes up to you, a week after he's replaced his pistol grip, asking if you, by any chance, knew why his safety has been flopping around since he replaced his grip.  HTH, ~Augee |
I agree partially with Augee. However, make damn sure that if you go this route your armorer knows what he is doing and is available to make changes for officers if necessary. I would advise that you allow officers to modify their rifles with approval from the Chief or Armorer. Then require that any officer that makes such a change have his rifle inspected by the armorer and requalify with it prior to it returning to duty use. My agencies armorer is not available to make minor modifications the majority of the time. I don't suspect he'd like to be available either. Who has that kind of time? Maybe send a few of your guys through an armorer's school, so there would be plenty of available help. Shouldn't cost you more than most other schools you'd send an officer through. |
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Augee hit it on the head. Do not take an overly comprehensive list of AR manufacturers to the man who signs policies in. For a duty weapon, make sure those officers who want to get with the program are prepared to fork over enough money to get a quality gun, and they should have access to a good armorer. Don't overlook local gunsmiths who might be willing to donate labor or training/familiarization sessions for the guys who don't mill their own lower parts kits. I use a local smith for my duty carbine and sniper rifle because he knows his sh*t. Our armorer went to a Glock class, and that was the end of it. He's not touching my LMT. The suggestion to stop and grab, or grab and go with the rifle will certainly be less expensive option for transporting. Check the back of police magazines for long gun mounts. Please discourage the cheap rifles for duty use. The officer carrying one may not be the only one depending on it. |
Dont allow mods, I would stop the list with those. If you allow mods, no matter what it was, it will become a liability If you take pride in protecting children, do it with the correct tool. Do not buy junk. |
YES! I would not allow Officer's to construct their own rifles unless the know what they are doing, and would issue factory rifles. It is very true that a suprising number officers don't know diddily about firearms/ and really don't care either. I personally trust the Colts above all (my personal opinion, I have others for plinking), and we issue Colts. I was not part of that process so my opinion had nothing to do with it. We armor our rifles once a year and I shocks me still to see some of what comes in. Carboned up rifles and look like coal has grown on them, rusty parts, and more accessories than you can imagine. Buy quality nomatter what you get, as rifles will get driven into the ground like line cars. We mainly have the armorers install aftermarket stuff as people have damaged rifles trying to install something when they are the complete opposite of mechanically inclined. We do allow officers to purchase their own rifles but many deicde not to. At last count I think we have around 60+ 6520/30 colts, and around 22 RO933's, with maybe 2-3 non-Colts. I have pushed for flat tops in patrol but they see the $ more than the funcionality. Trunk mounts suck by the way. |
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we carry personnaly owned AR's at my Dept. Only about 6 of us have them at the moment (out of about 55 sworn). they ride in the trunk in whatever case the individual officer purchased for their rifle. Most of us have soft cases like those by Eagle industries. a few have some hard cases. our policy is fairly open. the gun has to be a manufactured firearm and signed off by a certified AR-15 armorer. They can be modified somewhat, like accessory rails, lights, optics, etc, but no internal mods can be made with the exception that an ambi selector switch can be installed. two officers have colts, 2 of us have S&W's, one has an RRA, and i cant recall the last one, bushmaster i think. in order to carry, all must attend a carbine course and all are required to qualify with it annually. We're issued 50 rounds of remington softpoint (some LE specific round but i cant remember the name off the top of my head). If we need more than 50, then we use our own personal ammo. (i'm not happy with that, but its what was decided). We've asked and asked and asked for an in car mount, something like the santa cruz that mounts to the top of the cage. we're continually denied the request. santa cruz will also send you a T&E mount which seems like a good deal and hopefully one of these days we'll get some admin to see the light. |
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I was on the long rifle committee in 2003 and now I am an instuctor. We went for the Colt LE 6920. It fit everyone at the department and is a highquality rifle. We have purchased 38 rifles and allowed officers buy their own. Each rifle gets 3 P-Mags, a light, a 3 point sling, and a Pelican case. Pelican cases are locked in a cage when rifles are not in use. Supervisors have the keys. Users get a 40 hour class. Officers qualify every six months. Qualifications are combined with 3 hours of training and cleaning. Here are a few things that have changes over the years. Pelican cases are too hard to get to in a hurry. The new, handcuff style, weapons racks for units work with our shotguns and rifles. Many officers have ditched the shotgun for the rifle. Optics are great as long as the officers have a BUIS. Cleaning products and lessons are worth thier weight in gold. Another thing I have thought about is the fact the newer Ruger Mini 14 is a much better gun now than it used to be. It could help dending on the budget. 10-35 |
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"keep in mind the carbines will be purchased by the officers" and "most individual LEOs are not "gun guys" do not compute to "Colt, LMT, and Noveske"... there are other good guns out there...RRA, Stag, even Bushmaster, for a lot less money. Ig only Colt, LMT, and Noveske's were authorized how many officers would buy one? Not many I am sure. As long as the individual weapon meets the department criteria and has been checked over by the department gunsmith/armorer, tuned and and OK'd for duty the officer should be allowed to carry it.....(32.5 years there, on some special units, tactical units/entry teams, and competitive shooting teams as well.) One thing that was said that makes sense was the gun should be checked and OK'ed for duty by the trained and QUALIFIED armorer of the department and no modifications without the approval of the department. Litigation problems otherwise. Officers of course all have to be trained and quailfied with the weapon before being able to use it on patrol and ammo as well as weapon should be approved by the department for the protection of the officer in the event he has to use the weapon on duty. Is this question really being asked here? Something does not sound right, you know that feeling, when the hackles go up because something is just not right....<><.... 
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| Are you allowed to carry your handguns or do you lock them in the trunk as well? Seriously, I'm always concerned when I hear of an agency head who wants the rifles locked in the trunk. This tells me that they are more concerned about politics than keeping officers safe. I think your chief needs to man up and pick a weapon, purchase it, issue it, train it, and put it up front where it's accessible. My department did this years ago. We have over 150 Colts issued to each officer and not one complaint from the public about the "assault rifles". Good luck and stay safe. |
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a few years ago a local Department P.A. came into the shop i was working at and wanted me to quote out 5 new AR's for use on patrol. i said "sure, what are you thinking?" the guy gives me a list and it reads like this...... 5 AR15's 5 tactical lights 5 red dot scopes 5 slings 5 soft cases 1 silencer "WTF? is this a joke?" i ask "nope" was his response i had to teach this guy about AR's from the ground up. his Department could have ended up with a bunch of Oly's with airsoft junk hung on them. we ended up with Bushmaster, Surefire, Eotech, Eagle (case and sling) and an AWC can. the real shit part was when i got beat out on the prices of the equipment that i helped them pick out. i was going to make less than 5% on the entire deal and got smacked down by an out of town dealer. i will go the extra mile for an Officer any time i can but the "Department" can kiss my ass. to the OP, lots of rifles are good to go. Colt, Stag, RRA, Bushy, LMT and others. i would give the officers a very short list. lots of options just makes things harder. say "you can get a Colt or a Stag and that about covers it." two price points. i would decide on a configuration too i.e. M4. you don't want a guy showing up to clear a house with a 24" heavy bbl. if there is a gray area you will see it soon enough. some "gun" guys may not like it but that's the price you pay. do you let your officers show up with what ever pistol they want? no, cause you don't want that cheap bastard (we all know one) to come to work with a hi-point. good luck |
Don't get your advice from a hobby forum. Go to a professional LE/Mil forum (Lightfighter) and ask people that understand reality outside gun games. The NTOA is also a good place to get info. |
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