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Posted: 6/30/2008 3:32:59 PM EDT
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Honestly the application of Duracoat will do more to help protect from sea air corrosion than anything else. The insides of the weapon need to be oiled and cleaned frequently and there should be no problems. I think I would stick with a chrome lined barrel as opposed to stainless. Stainless is really only stain resistant and the lower quality(but tougher) alloys like 304 will actually corrode in that environment. It will just take a while. |
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Is there a reason he's looking at an AR platform? Depending on how much sailing he does or to where I'd look towards a DSA FAL or something. Depending on where he goes mags and parts COULD be easier to aquire? Mags are also cheaper than $25 so he would be able to have more of them if needed. My thoughts are short of someone assembling a Knight I would be concerned about reliability issues in the current 7.62 AR's. Does he want it for a sniper-type platform or more of something that can deliver 7.62 lead from a distance? Unless he needs the grade of accuracy from a Knight-type AR I'd very much go with the FAL. |
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Intended use and location makes a big difference. Intra-state, or inter-state, or international. I used to be a sailboat captain, doing international trips. (20+ years ago, before I got old  )In those days, of the boats both sail and power that I discussed this with, most had only a shotgun, usually stainless Winchester or Remy. 12 ga. slugs, 00 buckshot. Sometimes, a stainless Mini-14. Not very often, a .45 "We swim, sometimes there are sharks, shotgun or rifle works good" .45 for sharks - huh? If you go international, either register as US vessel, (firearms are OK, boat is a little piece of USA, must be locked up, sealed by customs while in port) or have cheap, disposable guns that MAY be confiscated by customs. (OR even dumped if possession is a BIG no-no) The problem, as always, is that on the ocean, even more so than on land, CYA and self-defense is totally up to yourself. The po-po is always a long ways off when SHTF. However, the po-po can board and search without cause or warrant. And they usually don't like firearms on boats. "Are you good guys, or pirates/drug runners? prove it " Make sure you have a GOOD hiding place, that is dry. (I got searched many times, never lost anything) Of course, if they really look, you're toast. If the boat is always wet, as in racing sailboat, seal them in something. But today, the weight would be a big no-no anyway. If you need more, send an IM or e-mail. IMHO YMMV |
Good point. Maybe just chrome lined and Duracoat or just a good park. The 7.62 comes from the fact that he already has a HK 91 that he was thinking of using, but I think I've talked him down on that one because of its collectability. |
Think international waters, off of Mexico, Bahamas, Keys, Cuba, back and forth--then you might get it. |
Good Ol' Ak-47  ... Not quite .308 (still of 7.62 goodness  ) but it's a man stopper and could be a effective boat stopper if need be... easy to maintain... and it could be forgotten and turn into a total rust bucket and that bad boy will still fire...If he is that worried about longevity... Pay the money and by a nicer end AK like a Bulgarian SSR and get it Duracoated... stock up on a few dozen mags and BAM... he could defend off an entire boat load of new age pirates... Otherwise I would go S.A.W. with 10,000 rd long chains that's alot of firepower...
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A nice remington 870 or Mossber 590A1 with Duracoat (on whichever one you get) and a Nice solid handgun with Duracoat would also be a must... I'm thinking... Higher end AK-47 Mossberg 590A1 1911 (maybe one of the new S&W PD tacticals...with a flash light on it...) all of which should be Duracoated... |
Really?  Well i'd definitely keep his HK91 at home. I'd have to agree with the previous post, go with an AK. It's a very cheap solution any way you look at it and is proven effective! |
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870 XCS Marine Magnum. If he's shooting at things past shotgun range on the open ocean, he's better off with a crew served weapon. Or the classic 870 Marine Magnum 
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Notice anything strange about the carbine in the top pic? |
That is it is probably a rubber duck? considering the rust on the barrel and the hole in the stock. |
Its not an A1 and it hasnt been SOPMOD'ed |
IT WORKED! THERE HE IS BOYS! WE LURED OUT THE TOKEN IGNORANT DIPSH*T THREAD TROLLER!!! It's people like this that deter others from registering on these forums. |
Cajun, STFU. Maybe you should re-read what typed before you go run your mouth again, because you obviously are missing the point. Too bad it didn't keep you from registering, because obviously your 73rd post has contributed so much to this thread that we are now better people for having peered into your vast cavern of knowledge. I wouldn't bother with 7.62. I'd pick a lighter recoiling cartridge with a larger magazine. Personally, I'd want a 5.45 AK with a short barrel (think KRINK), along with a RPK74. I'd leave the corrosive surp at home though and take the wolf MC Very reliable, accurate, low recoiling, decent range, and you have the ability to put down alot of rounds quickly with a good degree of accuracy, not to mention, 45 round magazines are readily available. Great for pirate defense, though me thinks any armed confrontation with them is going to go their way- my guess is they have alot more firepower than you do, and a hell of alot more maritime shooting experience. I can't see the need for a 7.62 simply because the extra range you get is going to be meaningless in anything other than the most calm of seas. Things would get close in a hurry, certainly close enough that more ammo, and the ability to get more of it downrange faster would be more beneficial than a slightly more powerful round. Now if we're talking mounted beltfeds...different story |
Good call, get a stainless shotgun and a stainless revolver - .357 or .44. |
That's basically what I meant Scott. I just don't understand the need for a .30 weapon. Obviously, my jest about Jaws infuriated people  I have traveled extensively in the Caribbean and Mexico when I was younger and understand the danger of Pirates and the like, albeit, most likely a very rare chance of being attacked by Pirates? I personally would have a 12 gauge pump gun and like you said a small caliber small framed weapon such as a 74 or M4. |
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I was boating in the Keys and some Cuban "immigrants" beached a new looking 35'+ go-fast boat w/ triple 250's & disappeared onshore. I heard the whole thing unfolding on the marine radio & was surprised when I ran up on the scene. It had to be a $250k+ boat that I doubt they legally purchased in Cuba. You're going to be waiting a while for 911 to get to you, so I'd suggest being armed. Besides, balloons are fun target practice way offshore! I've talked to marine officers & Coast Guard about their guns, and they say they spend time cleaning them every day. I'd rather not spend that kind of time, and am actually collecting the parts to build a corrosion resistant rifle for my boat in an AR15. So far I have collected: Calvary Arms polymer lower receiver Jewell trigger (it's all Stainless Steel) KNS SS pins Advanced Armament Buffer (stainless steel) Progressive Machine Titanium Bolt Carrier Smith Enterprises Chrome Bolt & Cam Pin Bushmaster Carbon Fiber upper receiver (integral rear sight) Clark Custom Carbon Fiber FF Handguard w/ Alum nut YHM Rail Alum (I plan to devcon/ thru bolt w/ss machine screws to handguard) POF front sight I plan to get: SS 14.5" barrel turned to lightweight contour Pinned SS Pheonix Flash Hider (by Liberty Cans) SS sight apertures from Brownells I hope to have all of the metal parts Diamondcoated/Ionbond coated before assembly - Especially the Lower parts kit, as that is one of the only things I couldn't find that isn't stainless or Aluminum. I bought DPMS chromed lower parts, but they look like super cheesy chrome, & figure I'd be better off w/ Ionbond. I would especially like to find Springs in Stainless too, as I don't know of anyway to coat these. If anyone has any suggestions, I would appreciate it. Thanks. Edited To Add: Superior Barrels has a super-duper coating for the inside of the barrel that is supposed to protect SS barrels against salt corrosion. I communicated w/ them & they didn't want to do anything under 16", nor would they do another mfg's barrel. It really sounded like the perfect solution to this situation w/o having chrome on the inside & mild steel on the outside. |
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He isn't worried about Steve Irwin's nemesis. He is worried about pirates. They normally stalk with 2 boats with guys with guns and sometimes RPGs.They OM is to be out between 12 and 24 miles. Pirates normally avoid armed contact because they simply don't want to get shot. They prey on the helpless and the one just not paying attention. I would just buy two garands. Have 'em treated with whatever the coating gurus say and a shotgun. If you going to a gun fight with a .223/5.56 you are going against at least 1 of uncle sam's M14, AKs and M16s. They will have full auto. See Real Pirates Dont let the passion for your AR get you killed. |
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I don't understand how an Ak or shotgun is going to be more effective against pirates then either an IDF style carbine or M4 equipped with an ACOG. Either way you have a light, simple to use weapon that has more ammo than the shotgun and more effective range that the AK and shotgun. If crews are able to fight off pirates with firehoses as described in the above article, then a few well aimed shots from any rifle will probably hold off anything but a determined assault. If they want you that bad then you're probably "proper F'kd". Duracoat and oil are a good idea no matter what you use. And an AK will turn into a useless rustbar if it is neglected in a corrosive, salty environment just as quickly as anything else if you don't take care of it. I rather doubt that either the finish or the metals used in your typical east-bloc AK are the best materials out there. 
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good point. except the 7.62 would be better at shooting through a boat. |
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I might have missed it, but where do you expect to be boating? What threats might you have to deal with? U.S. Waters, a stainless 12 gauge and a stainless revolver seem like good choices to me. If you are sailing in the straights of Molucca or off the coast of Somalia, I'd encourage you to get a .50 machine gun or a 25mm.
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Corrosion Resistance: Moly Resin™, when applied to bare sandblasted cold rolled steel will pass the test procedures for salt water spray at 1000 hours, salt water immersion at a minimum of 1000 hours, accelerated salt spray test equivalent to 30 years marine atmosphere exposure, and 60 days sea water immersion. If I were building an AR-type rifle or carbine for marine use, I'd coat averything that's not stainless or polymer with Moly Resin. IIRC Stickman's done Bolt Carrieers, and maybe even bolts. (OTOH, you can get stainless Bolt Carriers from JP Rifles and maybe others) |
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This is my first drunk post on Arfcom but just please bare with me cuz I have info to offer. Ok my father use to have a 04 54 Hatteras it was big and it was fast. If you need a gun on a boat it's gunna be for Pirates don't laugh they are out there.In the lifetime of the boat onboard we had a Glock 22 , bushmaster AR, Cobray Mac 11 (don't ask), Remington 870 Marine, and a Mossberg 500 20 ga. , and whatever I happend to have in my bad at the time which was always on the bridge with me. Mostly we took it to the Abaco's in the Bahamas and we never had any trouble from Pirates or customs. As long as you told customs what you had they didn't seem to care at all, but that may differ in the area you are. Oh yea and the Remi 870 was heavy as shit but the Mossy rusted a little bit but nothing a wire brush didn't take care of. The mossy now sits in my dad's truck because he doesn't like pistols. Pretty good drunk post eh. |
Marks, Sorry, for a second there, I mistook you for the guy I originally replied to. Anyway, I received Patriot's point loud and clear, thanks. "For that matter, what would attack you in a boat?" sounds pretty ignorant to me (and obviously others). Be sure to show them your online attorney skills as well. Regarding my number of posts. You've made it clear that I don't post on the site daily to maintain "street cred" on this anonymous internet technical forum. It's not my priority to check or post on the internet daily. Call me crazy. That said, maybe you missed my point. The OP was asking a technical question on a technical forum. Now, it's clear to anyone with more than
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I think it actually all depends where your friend is going to sail. I mean I wouldnt even dare to go near the african cost, also friends of mine when they went down the Amazonas, they had a crowd of bodyguards with them. So to say, there is always a risk. I mean what is the op doing when going to sleep at night, setting up security nightshifts? I mean if there is a good danger for something bad to happen... I just wouldnt do it. This is my personal opinion if there is girl and kids around, I wouldnt put them in danger. If it was just me and a bunch of friends going often out on a sailing tour aswell as a fishing tour, heck yeah... get some guns I am in. About the weapons. Dont make fun of me now, because I am from Switzerland, but we have a boat in Spain, where we have weapons on board. (There are many Africans trying to get over the region Andalucia to Europe) These guns have been completely recoated. Some special process from former SIG factory, SAN. This was a requirement for I think sea missions. I have to say, this coating has held up great, we have the guns now since 3 years on the boat and not a single sign of rust. Good, we are often there and every time we clean and relubricate them, however, I think it works out great. What I want to say is basically, dont buy expensive parts from all over just to get around the normal stuff. Buy a standard rifle that you like and get a very good coating for it, you dont exactly are going to do SEAL missions, so the weapon mostly wont touch salt water. greetings |
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I kind of like the concept of a .308, the extra weight will help keep steady when firing unsupported on a rocking boat and it would be more effective against another boat.....but when would you need to shoot at another boat? IF you are in a situation when you are needing to shoot at another boat, then you are probably in a position where you should be shooting at the people in it. For social purposes I'd go for something easier to handle, but on top of corrosion resistance you have to think durability. Piling through tight areas in a boat with a full size ar10 would suck, but so would snapping your gun in half because the upper broke when the barrel got caught on something. I like the idea of the Cav lower just because of simplicity and possibly less corrosion from electrolysis. I think I would have to go with a 14.5 M4 barrel (extra weight up front make it a little more steady than a LW profile) with a non-grabbie flash suppressor of some sort(5c1 maybe?, or a long A2 or the like), flat top upper, everything coated in something good, with a Cav lower. Sights are going to be the hard thing. Lots of little iron parts that get the finish knocked off of them just from regular use. Same with mounts for the Aimpoint. Those little screws will be the first thing to corrode. IF all else fails just get a AK and hose it down with wd40 every week or two and call it good. |
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I've got a friend in the Navy who is part of a "boarding team." Basically, they search for pirates. Sorry, I don't know a whole lot about it. I'll *try* to get in contact with him tomorrow to see what the team usually takes with them. May give us some ideas or it may not-but I'll see what he says. -Malf |
| Since these are emergency use weapons, get whatever platforms make the most sense for that use. Then stow them in VCI bags and they will be corrosion free when you need them. Don't worry about special coatings, materials, etc. Bag them in ready condition and they will come out that way. Just change the bags every 5-6 years. |
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Pistol. Rifle. Shotgun. A glock is VERY corrosion resistant, I can risk saying that Unless you are doing it intentionally, A GLOCK WILL NOT RUST, under ANY condition. A FAL painted with MOLYRESIN will reach out and touch a pirate's head even if he's taking cover behind diferent parts of the boat. Just apply this stuff one the barrel, gas tube, receiver, keep the internalS lubed and you should be good to go. Shotguns (12ga) are quite intimidating at short ranges (like perhaps on a boat) and if used with 00 buckshots will kill a man instantly, even if he's high on one kilo of coca. On such scenario I'm thinking tracers would work just fine. Good shooting. HUNTER. |
Maritime Interdiction Operations or MIO teams use a variety of small arms for boarding. I'll get you a pic of my brother's team from back in the early 2000's and you can see for yourself what they used. |
+1. I'd rather be putting 7.62mm holes in a boat than 5.56mm. 7.62x51 is going to penetrate the hull and either make another hole on the other side or damage/destroy whatever it runs into inside the boat (engine, fuel tank, etc.) |
++1 But I would go 7.62 X 39. Bigger holes in a boat (or in an attacker) will leak faster. Not to mention most of the countries prone to pirate attacks are AK territory, which means if S really hit the fan, 7.62 X 39 will be the most readily availible ammo. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best. |
This is in the news all the time |
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