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Posted: 6/23/2008 1:57:19 PM EDT
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EDIT 6/26/08 -- If anyone has this same question I suggest you read this. Big thanks to juslearnin! With the possibility of another "Assault Weapons Ban" looming I am thinking about getting my first AR in the next year or so. This would just be a toy for plinking and range use, looking to spend in the $800 to $900 range. Being a first timer (never even shot one) with minimal gun knowledge would you suggest buying a completed rifle and taking it apart/learning from there, or buying the parts and assembling one? I know everyone will have their preference here, but what caliber would best suit my application? Also, are there any brands you stay away from. I hear about the good ones (Bushmaster, Olympic, Larue, DPMS, Stag, RRA), any bad ones? |
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build your lower from parts, buy a complete upper. lower is your lower reciever, lower parts kit, stock. its easy and good experience. read this as well www.jobrelatedstuff.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=226782 |
Me too, I highly reccomend a noveske, lmt, or colt for $900 or less. But since you cant get one, go ahead and buy that stag for $760 delivered. Thats a great deal. My question was always: "what the hell do I want?" You wont really know untill you own one for a bit. just make sure you get a flat top adjustable stock. My first was a RRA entry with 2 stage trigger which is sweet, but now I'm building one and I want the standard(crappier) trigger just so I know what the difference is. Again, I highly suggest that stag for $760 and then buy a YHM rail from brightflashlights.com(the best prices I've found), and then sell the stuff you find you dont like and upgrade. Better then spending $300+ and finding out you would of done just fine with the $80 YHM model. IMO of course. |
okay thats not a bad idea either 
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Thanks for all the replies, Lots of different opinions here. Olympic is out for now then… llamanator – As far as looks go that is almost exactly what I want. I almost think that building it, although it would be a challenge, would help me in the event of something breaking. If I just buy one and it breaks, I will have no knowledge on how to fix it. I am VERY new to rifles, and I have only owned a pistol for 7 months now. I’m not the most handy guy in the world, either. I will probably just buy an inexpensive one off of someone here (possibly used) and learn from there. Any other opinions or ideas are welcome. |
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buy the first build the rest if you buy a quality rifle from a reputable company, they will be there to back up their product while you learn how to shoot it, disassemble it, etc... if you build your first, you are going to jump right into the assembly/troubleshooting and overlook the most important part... SHOOTING... besides, building an AR requires an investment in tools which depending on if you like the platform or not (i know thats like heresy around here), may be a waste of money... i bought my first (a Colt MT6400C), and built all the rest. even the MT6400C has been stripped down and "overhauled"... |
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I would look for a good used one here but you may not have any luck with the current political BS going on now. The trend is that everyone is buying EVERYTHING. So you may have to buy new. If on a budget I would suggest an Essential arms lower and build from there. I have build up a crap load for me and my friends on the cheap. 1. E.A. lower $76, $12 to ship, $30 dealer transfer= $120ish 2. Delton rifle kit $500-560 Shipped 3. DPMS multi tool $25 All said and done I just built up 2 M4 types for under $650 and the guys are loving them. Take the extra money and buy 10 mags from 44mag.com for $100 then get all the ammo you can afford. You do not to spend the money on a Colt to do every thing you will ever do with this. Have fun, Ghilly 
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FYI: I have owned about every decent brand and worked on bunch of brands as well. My old colt would eat everything you fed it but the newer ones I have a bit of suspicion for. Personally I am a Bushy guy but I have seen new bushy blow up on the range and seen some out of the box that needed returned. I have seen RR with serious head space issues and problems from good brands as well as not so good. Once in a while a turd sneaks through everyone. All that said I like all the brand from above and would be happy with any of them. Thanks, Ghilly |
As for buy or build, I'd suggest buying your 1st. It's a piece of cake to build one, but there is something to be said for putting in some time with a factory rig. I learned as much about what I wanted my build to be as much as what I did NOT want it to be by shooting my RRA's factory build. Alsways nice to have a lifetime warranty for your 1st weapon as well.
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| It all depends on what your goals are. If you are looking to get a rifle now with the least amount of fuss then go ahead and buy one built up that will save you time, and ease the headache that will come as you are bombarded by the BRD and what it is you really want. If you are looking for something specific such as rail x, with barrel y lower z, etc, or if you just want to learn and experience the process then by all means build one. It could save you money but if your like most of us it will cost you more in the end as you will roll your savings into better parts than you would have bought on a stock rifle. Start off getting the manual from the site buy your parts then build away. Not hard and you will learn something from the whole experience. Mostly that there are a lot of options and finding what you want is not hard at all. Best of luck with whatever you decide, and welcome to the disease. |
Don't post crap like that in my thread. You are zero help. Thanks to all those who have helped. juslearnin that is exactly what I needed, along with everything else you guys have said. I think I will buy an inexpensive first one. I have been looking at the handguards I like, and they are expensive, so I won't get exactly what I want but it will be close and I can build from there. Again thanks for all the help. |
| I'd suggest you build the lower, and buy a quality, preassembled headspaced upper. The lower isn't hard to put together. If you need help, I'm sure someone on AR-15 com isn't far from you with build experience. A monkey can put together an AR lower - you just need a good instruction guide, vice, set of punches, the cheap tool for the push pins, and a car stock wrench if you go that route. The challenging part of a build is really the upper, the lower doesn't take much in the way of mechanical ability or tools, more patience than anything else. If I was close to you in TX, I'd walk you through the process. but I'm not. I really think a lot of posters who say buy this and that haven't tried building lowers yet. It is easy! By building your own lower, you can get a RR 2 stage trigger, and still have more funds to spend on a custom upper than you would have if you buy factory assembled. The only real downside in my opinion is that the upper / lower color match may not be the best. But, down the road you can learn to apply duracoat, or just get used to the mismatch like I did. I've bought Oly, Bushmaster, and Colt complete guns. I've assembled DPMS and Mega Lowers with M1sales, Delton, and EE exchange uppers. I've been happiest with the combo of cost/features/performance on the lowers and assembeld upper combos I've put together, they've beat the performance of similar $ assembled guns by a long shot. A good example is my SPR style rifle - a M1Sales upper that cost $900 plus mega lower I spent $375 on, beats the pants off of my colt HBAR target Match Sporter that cost the same money, but doesn't have the free float forearm. fluted barrel, flip sights, scope mount ect. I get a lot more bang for my buck building my own. The previous mentioned home build is the most accurate rifle I've ever owned - 10 rounds in one hole at 100 yds. The only downside to building your own rifel is that the people who don't build their own guns will value your rifel less than a factory assembled gun that caanot do the same things accuracy wise. |
I bought a used one for my first AR, I felt it may be better to have one to learn with and poke at one problem at a time reather then putting one together and not knowing where to begin if it dont function right. You can check with CMMG to see if they still have their "bargin Bin" you will find them in the EE section. |
the point of buying the first AR is to have a company that will stand behind it... the CMMG BB rifles are "AS-IS"... which means a bunch of scrounged together DPMS parts with a CMMG barrel and no warranty for when they don't work...  no thanks.OP, if you really don't care about a complete rifle, look at the LMT defender which can be had for a little over $1000. you'll have to buy it in pieces (upper, lower, bolt carrier, handguards), but the good news is that the assembly is basically what you'd do after routine maintenance anyway (no tools required)... and LMT stands behind their parts 100%... |
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CMMG will still do warranty-type work on shipped defective units - not that bad, but still a poor choice for a first rifle - get a 1st line production unit, you'll just be happier. I really see no reason not to build a first lower for somebody looking to stay in the $900 area, especially starting with a quality lower. From there, adding an LMT 16" Carbine Upper is pretty logical - upgrading with an RRA 2-Stage, H-2 Buffer, using PMags through it will make it a capable SHTF rifle, after adding rail system of your choice, flashlight, and aimpoint. |
Don't. I don't mean to spend your money for you, but I'd buy right the first time. It could be the only one you ever buy. That's not likely, but If you buy cheap, you'll either hate the AR platform, or be forced to buy more. Just stay away from th very cheapest ones. There are great values like Double Star and Delton, but for the most part you get what you pay for. Almost everyone who's name you recognize in this industry is safe, including Olympic. Most of them are put together rather hastily and require a little help. |
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RRA has a lifetime warranty. DoubleStar and Stag's go for "cheap" and would be the cheapest route I would go. Anything cheaper would scare the crap out of me. By the time your done accessorizing, you will have basically built it, our you'll be the first ARFcommer not to.
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That is why I said inexpensive. I don't want to cheap out and end up not liking it because I got crappy parts. I want quality, but this will by no means be a SHTF gun. It is my first, and judging my current obsession, the first of MANY. This is just an appetizer. I will find some middle ground and hope to get something in the way of… http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/iwantacar/LaRue1.jpg |
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I have build a few of the essential arms lowers now and they seem just as good as any brand I have seen/used/built before. The place to spend the money is on a decent upper. Most people will never put more than 5,000 round through any one rifle in there lifetime. With ammo prices this will be more common. If you are really concerned about any decent rifle letting you down when most need a Bushy or Colt bolt carrier group is about the best way to help insure against cat failure. After that most all of the parts are only made by a hand full of companies and sold under tons of different name. For a long time I was in the 20,000-40,000 rounds a year kind of guys. Not on any one rifle but spread out between all of my shooting to include .22. In a big shoot I would easily go through 10,000 with out even trying. Now with my crazy work, cancelled shoots and ammo prices I am SUPER low this year. Rarely have I seen a well maitained decent gun fail but it does happen. At some shoots I talk to guys who use model 1 uppers and all the other discount types with no problems. If you can take a model 1 upper and burn through mag after mag on full auto and do c-mag dumps it should be just fine the the average guy. Take this info for what it is worth to you. I know I need to save cash where I can like everyone else but try to buy decent. Ghilly
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Putting a lower together is about a 30 minute job....the second time....45 the first time. Take your time, and tape off anything you think you may ding while tapping in your pins. BE CARFUL when installing the detents & springs for your take-down pins....they are hard to find when they shoot across the room. Some use a gallon sized plastic bag to contain the receiver when doing this part of the assembly. You can come in under your limit if you shop around on you lower parts. Pick a quality upper and BCG to snap on it, and you will be impressed. |
This is so stupid that I can't even comment on how quickly I'm going to do this the next time. Brilliant, actually! Great advice. |
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