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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - First AR, problems with Wolf ammo. (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 5/6/2008 8:12:56 AM EDT
| I got my first AR-15, a Doublestar M4, yesterday. I took it out for its first range sessions with a 500 round case of Wolf Military Classic .223 SP. It did perfect up until the 76th round. This round fired and the case jammed in the chamber. The extractor bit right through the rim of the case. I didn't have my cleaning rod with me, so I was unable to remove the casing until I got home. It came out fine with a few sharp taps with the cleaning rod but I couldn't get it out by any other means at the range. Is this common with steel cased Wolf ammo? I've had problems with the Wolf ammo in my M1 Carbine but for $130 for a case of 500 I decided it was worth a shot. |
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Is your AR new? Most on here will tell you not to "break in" your barrel with Wolf. I have two DoubleStar M4s that eat Wolf right up, but I also used brass cased rounds for the first couple thousand rounds (just for the "break in" process I've seen discussed here). Maybe your stick is just too "tight" still. |
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Perhaps try to use a known good ammo that you know will cycle your weapon for a while the go back to the wolf if you choose to do so. www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=376964 |
I had the exact same thing happen to me with my new DPMS. Yes, I broke in my gun using Wolf  Anyhow, my extractor took a chunk out of the steel casing and it still wouldn't budge. I had to drive home and use a cleaning rod just like you. Then I did some researching and figured out my bolt carrier group was way to dry. So after cleaning the barrel, I pulled the bolt group a part for cleaning. Once that was done I lubed the shit out of it....to the point that it's installed wet. I have sent 300 or more steel casing down range since then and not one issue. In fact it's all I use in both my ARs. |
| I was at the range yesterday. I shot 200 rounds of Wolf, 100 rounds of Brown Bear (laquer covered shit ammo) and 20 rounds of Remington UMC. The only problem I had on the day was from the UMC, a FTE which extracted on the next pull. Personally I don't trust an AR that won't shoot the crappy stuff. JMO |
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Just needs broke in NOTHING WRONG WITH WOLF AMMO A1 Bushmaster Carbine 14.7hbar ( cut back in 2001) A1 Bushmaster 20inch hbar Home Built LMT M4 14.5 with Bushy lower LMT Defender 2000 M4 14.5 All can feed wolf ammo 100% I wouldnt own a AR15 that couldnt fire /run Steel case wolf |
When its BRAND NEW then you dont know  I get what you mean AR15 are made to shoot M193/M855 so should be a good pick I also wouldnt have any trouble useing WOLF to smooth up the metal parts |
Exactly, run some full power through it for a few hundred rounds, give it a good cleaning and you should be gtg. |
Bullshit, Wolf is fine. Ammo snobs will spend twice as much and shoot half as much. I prefer to shoot my AR's....which all run 100% with Wolf. I wouldn't own an AR that wouldn't! |
| Never had a problem with wolf. never never never.... My brother had nothing but problems through his bushy. I dont know what to say... some rifles like it some dont. I have a rra upper and lower. I had a guy tell me some of the older shells had a varnish on the cases that caused problems. The first 200 rounds through my rifle were wolfs. |
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i broke my rifle in with xm855 and xm193 surplus i got cheap from work. ive never liked wolf, even in my ak/sks rifles, but as cheap as it is its hard to pass up. i can tell you one thing though. . . after 100 rounds of xm193 my rifle was still fairly clean looking inside. after 40 rounds of wolf it looked like all hell had broke loose in there. if nothing else, its really dirty. but, i didnt have any failures with it, and ive put about 250 rounds of it through my olympic with no problems at all. |
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My Colt does not like wolf - after several instances of the same problem you were facing, I decided I would feed my expensive rifle decent brass from now on. I felt like an idiot after coming home way early from the range because I goofed up my fine American Firearm with cheap Russian ammo.  I gave my last 50+ rounds of the steel cased sh*t to some guy at the range after i locked up my Ruger bolt gun with it - same problem as with my Colt, stuck case. I will never use Wolf again - It is cheap for a reason.  |
I agree with this 100% I have built well over 25 AR15 type rifles, with at least 5 being currently used as carry rifles by LEO's (myself included). Not one problem with ANY of the rifles that I have built and they have all fired Wolf ammo at one time or another. I just don't buy the "my rifle needs X rounds to be broke in" or "my rifle won't shoot wolf"... a functioning weapon should be 100% with "well/ok made" ammo... PERIOD. |
That's the way I have always felt and have used Wolf in both of mine for the last 7 years. That being said, I have had an empty stick in the chamber the last two range sessions. Both ripped the rim off and had to be pounded out. They both had what looked to be carbon or some other thick burnt residue on them. They were both the newer polymer coated type. I had replaced the extractor and spring after the first one, but it happened again this last outing. Any suggestions? 
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I couldnt agree more, I am on my 4th AR and all I use is Wolf.. never have problems.. |
It doesn't mean that their rifles are "crap", but an AR should shoot anything thrown at it. If its "in-spec" and a major manufacturer, then it should work fine. I'd be bothered if my AR were picky with different brands. |
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In about 10 years on this, and other, web sites, there are more problems reported with Wolf ammo than any other ammo I have seen, heard of or imagined. A great many of these problems revolve around cases being stuck in the chamber. Problems have occured in every make of rifle, despite chamber size or style (chrome lined or not). Some guns eat it, others dont. I wont shoot the stuff. Lots of other people do. Some guys who say they shoot "a lot" of it think that 100 rounds in a day is a lot. Some people can shoot 100 rounds in the first half of a single exersise during a carbine course. Whatever... Shoot it if you choose, but if you have a problem with it and blame the gun, well.... 
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Theres no way to tell unless theres hard data...cause theres nothing saying that its not operator maintinence problems.Its just my belief that if a rifle cant run with it for any reason then the rifles not worth keeping around cause your screwd if thats all you can find.I have good luck with Barnaul and wolf brass case is real nice as well.For me a day at the range is 500 rounds..with prices I can do that once a month for rifles so for me its not based on puting just a few hundred rounds a year on the rifle. I have the skills to keep my rifle going,yes I use wolf and have used it in a carbine course.I use a well lubed rifle and quality parts and mags..no problems.Yes its dirty ammo..all the more reason to lube well...in the end I believe its how its built,parts used and maintinence and knowledg of the system that I think contributes to more failures than anything else. I have 7 ARs from diferent makers and if the assumption that some will and will not eat wolf were true I think I would have 1 rifle that wouldnt eat it.Every rifle works with it and so far 4 of them have been used for classes with wolf and no problems.My rifles also had 3K mandatory rounds in them for a break in before I started using wolf. All my carbines even though a bit diferent when it comes to Bolts,carriers,Buffers and extractors the recipe is the same.Barrel makes differ but are Chromelined and are from Bushy,CMMG,BravoCompany and RRA..no problems..maybe im just lucky but I dont think so. |
You know, now that you mention it, my AKs don't have a single issue eating brass or steel cased ammo? The AR is the only Assault rifle I can think of that needs to be babied and spoon feed Caviar. Anyhow, I personaly have two ARs that function just great on Wolf and I wouldn't have it any other way. |
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My Colt would not cycle wolf when I got it. so I sent it out and had the problem Identified. my issue was the Gas port needed to be opened up. my gas port was on the small side of the tolerance so not enough gas pas pushing through to send back the carrier. but wolf was not the only one that I had problems with, the other was the federal white box stuff. everything else seem to function fine. I personally dont like to have to spoon feed my weapon. so I sent it off to a gun smith and got it fixed. it will feed anything I put into it now. like my other two ar's will. all it took was opening up the gas port .005" and thats not much. So I can understand the first thought was this is the ammo... then I thought this is a Colt it cannot be the weapon. so I can see it both ways. but I have to agree most times its the weapon if the round goes bang. Thumpper |
[sarcasm]Yes, because in 20 years of active Infantry and SF service, as well as 30 some-odd years of personal and business shooting I've never seen a failure to fire, failure to extract, misfire-and-cook off, dud, squib, over-charged, ruptured case, blown primer, or any other issue with 'delivered on from on high by angels' Lake City ammunition, any US, Israeli or other country manufactured brass cased ammunition. Nor have I ever heard of any US manufactured ammunition like UMC causing catastrophic kaBooms. [/sarcasm] Why was it an TTP to carry a cleaning rod taped to our handguards on both my ODAs? A TTP Kyle Lamb recommends in his excellent book. Why would anyone need a cleaning rod with awesome, perfect "mil-spec" (technically acceptable, lowest bid) ammunition? To clear a stuck case? No! Wolf Ammunition is dirty and loaded to SAAMI spec (some call that "underpowered"). On the other hand, it goes bang consistently, is relatively accurate and has a pretty darn good performance warranty that Wolf stands behind. For the price, most people think its good value for money. But, you've convinced me. From now on I am using nothing but priceless ammunition. Cases will be turned from the finest brass on a lathe and machined in order to insure absolute dimensional perfection. Powder will be inspected grain by grain and any imperfect grain rejected. So far, my QC rejection rate is 100%, but by God no "crap" is going in my perfect rifle. Maybe by 2010 I'll have a round to shoot. |
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With the exception of a super duper competiton AR I personally would not want an AR that had issue w/ Wolf. I have shot thousands of the Wolf in Bushy, Colt, LMT, and Noveske w/ no issues. Cheap - yep -- Tougher on the extractor - yep -- accurate - nope -- smelly - yep -- fun to shoot - yep. I think I'm at about 6 - 7k rounds of the WOLF so far. Mostly reloading my own now. |
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Is there a certain type of .223/5.56 wolf that is more prone to problems? I am asking because I have a rifle that tends to choke on my reloads that contain a light powder charge. I want to see how they compare to wolf. I have a box of 62 grain wolf but am wondering the 55 grain may be a better comparison. |
| Get a good chamber brush and make sure the chamber is clean. It is chrome lined and as a result the tolerances can be a little on the tight side. That is probably why the case is sticking. You can try getting some of the Remington bore cleaner and putting it on a bigger patch, something like a .38 cal or so. Run that in the chamber some and then run clean patches through. That will clean and make the chamber smoother, less likely to stick then. Also keep the bolt lubed up good. If the extractor ripped the rim off, you don't have an extractor problem. |
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IMO, your SHTF/GO-TO rifle should be able to digest every brand of ammo you're likely to encounter if ammo gets tough to find. The obvious exceptions would be badly corroded ammo or reloads of dubious origin, but any newly manufactured commercial ammo should definitely be on the menu. If my rifle didn't like Wolf, I'd dang sure find out why and do my best to correct the problem. There's SO MUCH Wolf out there that the likelihood of having to use it during a shortage is very high. An AR that chokes on Wolf isn't GTG in my opinion.
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If cost is your reasoning, wouldn't it be cheaper to reload with "quality" components than to shoot wolf? Even with the cost of equipment I bet you could recover the initial investment with the first 1k. The added benefits would be uniformity, cost, clean burning powders, better accuracy. Also if you love wolf so much I think you could even reload their cases. Or am I way off the mark here? Image copied from someone else's post in reloading section: 
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A sincere thank you for your service. Who said anything about premium ammunition? Who said anything about brass cased ammunition never failing? After 20+ years of shooting thousands of rounds of .223 through many ARs I've formed a different opinion on the subject I guess. I'm going to stick with new-ar guy on this but compelling argument none the less. |
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For the first 300-500 rounds I would shoot some M193 to break it in. Wolf isn't know for having much power to begin with. After that, you shouldn't have any more problems as long as your rifle is properly lubed. However, I do remember there being serious QC problems with the Wolf 7.62x39mm Military Classic near the beginning of 2008. Its a small possibility it also effected the .223 MC, but I doubt it. I can't find the data right now, as it was on another web forum. |
I think wolf is of course not the best ammo out there, but when you are talking any mil-spec ammo manufactured for 3rd world countries by the zillions, it will not of course be the most reliable, but my Bushmaster eats it up with the only problem being in the accuracy dept.. I even find that all the "talk" of it being so dirty is exaggerated.. I have fired nearly 1,000 rds between cleanings with one failure, and that was a spit neck on a case... Round fired, but did not eject.. I will keep buying it. The major players charge way too much for their everyday ammo.. They charge prices that one should only have to pay for handloads.. |
Not related to the Wolf debate but what caliber 229 blew up with the Federal triple charged ammo? Glad the injuries weren't more permanent. I'm hoping to pass through this life w/o a gun blowing up in my hand. We'll see. |
My brother was too scared to fire a pistol for a long time after that... Could have been much worse, it was a good thing we were at a range that required ear and eye protection... |
I Hear ya I use to shoot just 100rds or so at times during the week But it was Every single day Range was my yard Weekends I would shoot alot I also had 2 reloaders But since moveing to SWFL a few years back I lost my RANGE  When I drive to a shooting range I make it count  |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - First AR, problems with Wolf ammo. (Page 1 of 2)
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