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Posted: 5/5/2008 10:19:28 PM EDT
Well guy's i have decided to sell off some stuff and focus on one AR for now and am wondering if the POF Uppers are worth the price. Also i wonder if a gas piston setup is really the way to go.Any how this will be going on a Stag lower i am building so if any one has any experience with the combo let me know.
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I have a POF recon 16" upper on a sabre defense lower. Had some troubles with accuracy out of the first barrel (it was there old style barrel) sent the upper back to POF and a couple of weeks later they sent the upper back with the new style barrel. Took it out last weekend and it shoots a lot better now. Make sure you get one with the new style barrel!!! In terms of reliability I don't think you can beat a POF upper but if you are looking for a tack driver you may want to look at the LaRue stealth. It looks like mine will shoot 1" to 1 1/2" groups with the right ammo.     
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If you want piston, I'd go with something other than a POF. They're decidedly first generation, a very large, clunky piston system compared to others on the market with lots of otherwise incompatible parts. And the uppers alone are priced the same a complete direct-impingement AR. Buy a standard upper, then you can get a $400-$500 drop-in piston conversion unit from several manufacturers. If you don't like it, you can always convert back to direct-impingement and sell the conversion kit. |
I think you should probably get your facts straight before posting BULL$H!T info!!! Do you have any actual experience with POF uppers? It is a very simple system with no spring that can fail like almost every other piston system out there right now and if it is such a bad system with incompatible parts than why is it the system that Bushmaster chose to use for there Gas Piston Rifle??? |
Bushmaster chose it because it was one of the first piston systems to reach the market. Now they are offering the ARES system, so what does that say. It is a first generation low tech system that is bulky and changes the dimensions of a rifle. It is not compatible with most aftermarket rail systems on the market. That is not to say that it is a bad system just low tech and simple. As far as its compatibility there are only a handful of accessories that are able to fit its dimensions without extra fitting done by the user, so if you don't care about that then it is a fine system. BTW I have just about every piston system on the market and the Bushmaster POF is the only one I have had any problems with. The good thing is the customer service at Bushmaster is good and fixxed it without a problem since. As far as POF is concerned I hate dealing with their customer service. |
Wow, it looks like POF ownership creates over-sensitivity too. As has been said, Bushmaster uses the Ares system, not POF. The Ares system uses the existing front sight base and can use several different handguards with modification. That's a big plus. The Ares and other units are completely user-reversible, they can revert back to gas impingement very easily. The POF unit is not drop-in nor is it possible to buy a POF kit that is anything short of a complete upper. What does that tell you? Overly expensive and incompatible. Can the POF unit be used with any barrel? I don't think so. Requires a specific profile for clearance and I'm guessing the gas port diameter is non-standard which is what prevents a POF kit from existing. Want to use a railed handguard? Try installing anything other than the Predator. Not even close. |
Would you then recommend the Ares system for someone who wants to try out a gas piston in an AR? I don't really feel that I NEED one in order to have a reliable AR, and I certainly don't expect any huge changes, but I wouldn't mind trying one if the point of entry is not too high of a cost. |
I think that's what makes the Ares system so appealing: Lower price point and it's totally reversible if you end up not liking it. Other drop-in kits are a bit more expensive, but are also reversible. |
You had an LWRC gas piston upper? And didn't like it? I got the impression from some reports I've seen in the press, that the LWRC are awesome. Would you mind going into some of the details on specifically what you didn't like about the LWRC, and what was better on the Armalite DI upper? You're one of the first people I've heard of who has tried GP and then gone back to DI. |
| POF is a great company, and they have a great product, if money is an issue stick /w DI. The thing to look at is almost every single .mil maker of the AR platform is now producing or in the process of producing a piston weapon. Colt,LMT,HK,FN,LWRC are some that come to mind. Plus there are now a mryaid of piston kits out there, bottomline prices will get better soon, Buy an impingement gun and wait and see who will win the "Piston War". Reminds me of Blueray and HDDVD ..anyway have a good one |
+1. I'm also curious. |
Not exactly the same thing as the Bluray HDVD war though, is it? DI is an established technology, as is GP. Both have been around for awhile, and both seem to address different purposes and have their pros and cons. I wouldn't be surprised to both of them continue to exist for a long time, side by side, in the same market. That's different than two new competing technologies, only one of which can win. In the case of GP and DI, both already have a long successful history, and I would guess both will continue to exist. First of all, there's absolutely NO guarantee that the military will upgrade to GP rifles, any more than there's a guarantee that they'll upgrade to the 6.8 spc caliber. It's VERY likely that they will try to get by with smaller adaptations and enhancements until some drastic new technology comes along that simply renders 5.56-based rifles as far less effective. The reason I'm pointing that out is, it means that the GP rifles will not likely gain the huge advantage of military adoption, which means they will not be able to produce the large volumes that will enable them to lower their per-unit costs versus DI, and to out-sell DI units in the marketplace. Secondly, the high cost of GP rifles right now, versus the DI rifles, argues that it's a two-tiered market. If the GP rifle is not widely adopted by the military, then it will have to compete on its merits in the civilian market, and I suspect that only a relatively small minority of civilian users will want to pay 2x or even 3x the cost of a good AR, just to have a GP rifle. Costs will hopefully come down, and if they do, more will consider buying a GP rifle (I know I would). Anyway though, as long as DI rifles cost a lot less than GP rifles, and shoot just as well or better, and as long as GP rifles are limited to the civilian and LE markets, then I have to think that both the DI rifles and the GP will continue to thrive for quite some time. Right now, as a civilian user, I'm INTERESTED in a GP rifle, but I know that I simply don't NEED it. My RRA, White Oak, and Sabre rifles are incredibly reliable and accurate as they are, I don't work in the desert, and I really have no specific need to get a rifle that will run 5K rounds without cleaning, or whatever is being claimed. I'm not knocking the GP rifles in ANY way, I'm interested in them myself, but I just think when you look at them in a practical way, they're not super cost effective yet, and for the average civilian user, it's hard to see how they're giving you ANYTHING that you really need that's worth 2x or 3x the cost of an ordinary AR. |
Please visit Bushmasters website. This will help to clearify what Bushmaster offers. They offer the Ares as a Gas Piston Retrofit Conversion Kit to convert uppers using standard operating system as stated on their website and they use our gas piston operating system on complete uppers and rifles they offer to law enforcment. Hope this this information helps (www.bushmaster.com/catalog_xm15_BCWA3F16M4-GP.asp), and (www.bushmaster.com/products.asp?cat=6). Best regards, |
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