AR Sponsor
Posted: 8/21/2007 3:22:22 PM EDT
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I recently put off a patrol rifle class and one of the students used his NIB post ban DPMS carbine with the dummy collapsible stock and that G*d awful muzzle brake. He had very little experience with a rifle so the day before the class I went over all the basic marksmanship, stripping, inspecting and cleaning course material to save time for everyone else in the class. We then took a little trip to our range. I use a 50 yard zero course for these intro classes so I set him up with an 8" target at 50 yds. I shot three 3 round strings prone. I did so but made no sight corrections. I fired these strings pretty quickly. I then set up an identical target and he ran through the same drill. My best group was a surgical 9.5" group. he fired a (best of three) 14" group. Since we fired those rounds fast to try to heat up the bbl a little. The rifle is a step bbl and heated up pretty fast. We repeated this after the bbl had cooled somewhat and his group got worse. All of his fundamentals were okay and he wound up with an even larger group.I did decide a sight correction was required since we were all firing high and to the right. After the sight correction the rifle began having just about every problem it could. Fail to Feed, Fail to Eject and 1 spent round just take up residence in the chamber. Since we're poor the only ammo we can use for training is Wolf. I'm not a big fan of it steel case ammo but I must admit I've ran just a few more than 1,200 rounds through my Armalite without only 1 misfire; the round had no powder. Prior to this day I had also ran close to 2,500 rounds of Winchester Q3131 (M193) 55 gn. FMJ. All of this resulted in wearing my extractor lip down by a tad more than 1/60". I no longer buy the idea that steel cased 5.56 ammo is the Antichrist. He did at least get the malfunction drills down pretty well. I switched him to some of my "private stock" of Lake City brass case ammo to no avail. We did everything we could think of, swapped magazines, loaded them to varying levels. I even dug up a set of calipers and found out his extractor claw finding it was a hair more shallow than mine. We did manage to get the group onto the target to some degree via sight corrections. Neither of us got a group any tighter than the first ones. I tried my rifle with the Wolf and got a 3.5" group, he tried it and got a 5" group, we both shot quickly and could've done better. We just needed something to use as a point of reference. We moved up to the 25 yd line and I got a .75" group and he got a 1.5" group. Aside from the issues described in this novel the DPMS has to have the worst trigger of any service rifle I've ever shot. In fact I think my old FAL L1A1 Century Arms 7.62 has a better trigger. I know someon will read this and tell me how the DPMS is the greatest AR rifle ever made but I'm not interested in that. I'm curious to know if any departments have purchased DPMS rifles for issue or if anyone out here oversees a privately owned DPMS for approved use in patrol. If so did anyone have similar trouble or other issues which led to the rifles being pulled from the field? What type of customer service did you get from the manufacturer. After all of this I found he had paid just a hair less for it than I paid for my HBAR flattop Armalite w/ both front and rear irons on it some 2 years ago. The DPMS cost him around $700.00. Mine was $750.00. I don't want guys to miss getting a good deal on a rifle if it's going to perform. I hope to hear some indications from readers letting me know if they're all crap or if it's just his. I'm also interested in DPMS' customer service. Right now he doesn't want to sell it but he doesn't want the company to perform the same way his rifle has been. I know alot of ppl buy DPMS SBR's. While I've yet to understand what advantage an 11.5 bbl is supposed to accomplish beyond subgun range nor how durable they're turning out to be. I have a feeling if anyone can comment on DPMS customer service it'll be ppl who've obtained those SBR's. Now that I've finished this novel I'd sure appreciate any advice, ancedotal or concuring with the facts written above. Any replies would be a great help. You can post them here or PM me with your replies. Thanks a bunch - Jamey |
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I have a new DPMS M4 in my safe.....paperwork that came with it says, DO NOT SHOOT WOLF OR PMC AMMO. Now, whether that is the problem or not, is anyones guess. I have no issue with Wolf ammo...I don't buy the evil steel case line..... Rifle needs to be diagnosed, for sure. |
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I don't buy DPMS rifles mainly because most of their barrels aren't chrome lined. That said, I do buy quite a few of their parts including receivers and lower parts kits. Try a #60 O ring under the extractor. Also the extractor spring and rubber insert might be out of spec. With group like that I would check to make sure the barrel is actually tightened properly to the upper receiver, but you probably would have noticed if it wasn't. Also check to see if you are getting any bullet strikes on the compensator. I would recommend he has that replaced anyway. A flash hider is much more useful on a patrol rifle. Good luck with rifle and I hope to hell he isn't going to use it on patrol until he get the bugs worked out. |
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Moved to proper forum and for what its worth .. I have a DPMS DCM, and other than dropping a set of JP springs in it, its bone stock. It has run flawlessly through a couple of cases of ammo. Even with a 1/8 bbl shooting 55 gr the accuracy is 3-4 in at 100 , with 72 gr it is moa talk to DPMS about your problem, , it wont fix its self |
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call DPMS, they have good CS i hope all goes well... ETA: DM1975 made a good note...its recommended on new bushy ARs/bbls NOT to shoot wolf until a proper break-in is accomplished w/ quality brass ammo, specifically since the chambers are a tad tighter and reqire the "polishing" of some spent brass prior to being broken in h/w, i havent heard about DPMS's bbls being asked to do this... |
| I will say that DPMS is not my favorite rifle, nor is Wolf my favorite ammo, but in this case I would probably say that the Wolf ammo is the problem more than likely. There is a thread on here about Wolf that describes the issue with steel case ammo and why it does what it does in some but not all rifles. You see what I am saying? Some rifles will run Wolf fine but others will have issues. That is why I dont like Wolf. Also, after running the Wolf and having issues switching straight to brass will not solve the problem, the chamber should be well cleaned first. |
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I guess my question would be ...why is he taking a class with a NIB rifle?????....one of the first things you do is to shoot them first and I break the barrel in also before I even try something like a class with it... I also do that with every rifle or pistol I have ever owned ..... I think you would have problems with other ar's in his situation also.. To take a class and don't even know the rifle is stupid anyway... |
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My agency has 6 or 7 DPMS rifles riding around in squad cars. We haven't had a single issue with any of them. I have had the occasion to deal with them on a number of occasions over the phone, in person, and at both gun and trade shows. I'd rate their customer service as excellent. If I'm not mistaken, they're an Industry Partner here. Pop into the Industry forum and ask them for some guidance. |
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Our Department carries Bushmaster. The FFL I work at sells DPMS and the local department has approved them. I personally won't own one. Might be ok for plinking but I just don't trust them. They are a tad cheaper. About $100 cheaper than Bushmasters. As far as 11.5", I use mine in entry work. Much easier to navigate in tight areas. It's a build. Still sits on a Bushmaster lower. Wilson chrome lined barrel. The guy I work with, a retired PD armorer likes the DPMS and swears they are just as good as any, except Colt. Everybody has their favorites. I just seem to keep reading about problems with DPMS and I'm not willng to take the chance. I do have a 16" bull barrel that is very accurate but the dimples for the gas block are drilled slightly off. They just can't seem to get it quite right. |
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Our Department carries Bushmaster. The FFL I work at sells DPMS and the local department has approved them. I personally won't own one. Might be ok for plinking but I just don't trust them. They are a tad cheaper. About $100 cheaper than Bushmasters. As far as 11.5", I use mine in entry work. Much easier to navigate in tight areas. It's a build. Still sits on a Bushmaster lower. Wilson chrome lined barrel. The guy I work with, a retired PD armorer likes the DPMS and swears they are just as good as any, except Colt. Everybody has their favorites. I just seem to keep reading about problems with DPMS and I'm not willng to take the chance. I do have a 16" bull barrel that is very accurate but the dimples for the gas block are drilled slightly off and I'm not willing to wait another 4 months to get a replacement. They just can't seem to get it quite right. |
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