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Posted: 6/16/2007 10:57:12 PM EDT
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Between these rifles, which one would you pick and why? I am a LEO wanting one for work (open to model). I don't have the cash for a high dollar red dot so; open sights will have to work for a while. The last time I put some (serious) time in behind one was some years back with the help of Uncle Sam. I know that on the flat top model I'll have to add sights right away. I will need to add a light pretty soon after purchase along with extra mags. On the carbon model, will regular mags work and is the break down the same? Bushmaster Carbon15 Bushmaster A3 Bushmaster Carbon15-2 Bushmaster A3-2 I realize that the carbon15 is the same, just different sights or am I missing something else? On the Carbon 4pre, what sight is that? I really appreciate the feedback and thanks in advance for leaving out the "go with Colt, RRA, DPMS, etc...." comments. http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p290/barc151/carbonflattopwsights.jpghttp://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p290/barc151/bcwa3f16.jpghttp://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p290/barc151/AZ-C15M4PST.jpg |
| I'd get the A3 variant. If you don't have the money to get a nice optic yet, then spend just a tad more & grab a detachable carry handle to use the irons on it for now. Later you can remove the handle & slap an Aimpoint or Eotech or whatever you like most with a nice buis on the flat top with a lot less headache than trying to find a gooseneck mount you'll need for the A2 upper or carry handle mount if you buy the one in the pic. But if you're dead set on an A2 upper & your sure you won't be using optics then it's a good purchase too. |
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As others have said the A3 is probably the most versitile. The removable carry handle offers good irons sights and the ability to switch to an optic/BUIS combo later when you have funds. I'd stick to aluminum receivers for a duty gun as the Carbon series doesn't really have an established track record yet. There are rails that can be added to the standard handguards for mounting a light. Railed HGs could be added later too. For a patrol carbine the simpler the better. You might do a quick search for K.I.S.S. rifles to get some ideas of a tough, minimalist package that still meets the needs of target ID and quick handling. The sight in the picture of the Carbon15 is a Yankee Hill detachable non-folding rear sight. |
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Neither... If these links go to where you're buying from, they are WAY over priced. Build one with kits, lot cheaper and its your set up.. But out of these, I would go with the A3-2. Here's why... Metal receivers, Flat top A3 Upper, and Standard A2 front sight post. Being a LEO and former military, you know your BUIS are your lifeline! A2 front sights are reliable in that they dont move... You can pick up A2 style rear sights for $25 + shipping. As for optics, I know what its like to be strapped for cash. Go down to your local Wally World and pick up a BSA Red-Dot for like $30-$40. Both the rear sight and scope are reliable, a SRT buddy of mine and myself have them on our primary weapons. At any rate, there are hundreds on websites and companies to find AR parts. Whatever you do, do what you want to do! Its your weapon and your lifeline in the $hit, do it right... E-mail or IM me if you have questions on anything... L8erz |
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I wouldn't go with the Carbon 15's either. There not used by anyone I've heard for any kind of duty work and the only advantage I can see over the much stronger 7075 T6 forged aluminum receivers of the standard Bushy's is possibly saving a couple bucks. Definitely not worth it for anything but a fun gun and that's not what your looking for. Another option for only a little more and will give you irons now with room to expand later in folding buis and optics, plus give you a much cleaner running, easier to maintain operating system is Bushmaster's new POF lincensed piston AR or upper alone. Having a POF it does run more like an M14 or Fal in operating system putting all the heat and carbon fouling to the gas cylinder and piston leaving the receiver, bolt/bolt carrier and componets near undisturbed and better lubricated longer where the DI would have burnt it off. It's just another choice and with your LE discount you should be able to get a good price on one. Yes, it's a little more money, but a better long run investment the way I see it. Bushy piston A3 |
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MED-TAC brings up a good point. The MSRP from Bushmaster is a bit higher than real life retail. Shop some of the gunshows and find som LE dealers in FL and you should be able to get the basic platform for under $1000. I know you didn't want other brand recommendations but: If you happen to be anywhere near Jacksonville they should have a good sized gunshow comming up in July. There are two pretty competative AR builders who regularly show up there and they are LE/Mil friendly and would probably get you set up quite nicely. Spike's Tactical, and Anvil Arms Both have very good reputations, they also happily answer questions. |
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Check around on Gunbroker.com You should be able to find some deals there that my let you have the extra cash to buy optics/iron sights now. Here are some now Bushmaster M4 AR15 reserve not met - no bids BUSHMASTER AR-15 MODELXM15-E2S $725.00 - no bids Bushmaster XM15-E2S Dissapator $750.00 - no bids - no reserve That is just some Bushmasters, lot of others to chose from. Even a few Colts for under $1000 Colt MT6001 6001 AR15 .223 EXTRAS $899.99 - no reserve - 0 bids EOTech Model 552 $202.00 - no reserve - 6 bids so far |
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The previous Professional Ordnance carbines were junk before Bushy bought them. Bushy may have straightned out the problems with them, I don't know not many people seem to have them. A regular aluminum carbine is plenty light. Get the last one with the fixed front sight, you want iron sights for back up. If this is going to be a duty carbine you need a light on it. Personally I'd put a LaRue fixed rear sight on it. stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=29 Next year, or when you have money saved up you can add an aimpoint. I would not build a gun for duty use, I would not buy a carbon fiber gun or a piston upper gun or any other exotic/unusual/potentially unproven design, be conservative, if only for liability reasons, and get a regular old carbine. Good luck, sucks that you have to pay for this yourself, but at least you are allowed to have one. 
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Go with the Std. A3 type. Problems with reciver craking on there Carbon type rifles. Both around the Barrel and the Butt stock area. Been several postings on it last year. If possible. I would look at a CMMG Before I go bushmaster. But if its a issue or they limit the selection of firearms you can select from. Then deffentaly go with a Forged reciver over plastic.
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Alright, I have it narrowed down to two. M4 OR A3 remov. carry handle So, I take it, that the M4 has a fixed carry handle and is shorter by 2 inches and $20 more. The other has dual rear sights (good out to 800m, or at least claim too) and the carry handle can be detached along with a picatinny rail already in place. I am thinking that having the capability to remove the carry handle along with the sights is going to be the way to go. Am I missing something on the M4 that I have not mentioned or does the M4 have these same features and just not mentioned? |
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The top rifle has a permanently installed izzy flash suppressor, that's why it's shorter, it also has a m4 profile barrel. I don't know much about the izzy suppressor, no one I know uses them. most people either leave the a2 or buy a phantom or vortex flash suppressor. On that carbine you are, practically speaking, stuck with the Izzy, you may or may not care. The m4 barrel is thin in some parts and thick in some parts, it allows the installation of a grenade launcher, that's why it has that profile. The lower rifle is longer because it has a removeable a2 flash suppressor, however it also has a heavy barrel. the barrel is thicker than the m4 and a little heavier. It has a longer barrel, you can swap out the flash suppressor if you want and you will get a little higher velocity, in theory this extends the range the ammo will fragment at-or so they say. However maybe you want a shorter overall length for some reason like the carbine will be used mainly inside during building searches or to make it easier to get in and out of a vehicle? You might want to look at this carbine www.bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/bcwa3f16sl.asp It has a thin 16" barrel that you can swap out the flash suppressor on for a better one. |
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I would just do the standard (aluminum) 16", with an A2 upper, and then just get an inexpensive rail mount that uses the existing handguards and a Surefire G2 Nitrolon. They're cheap but good. The reason I say the A2 upper is because it's idiot proof, and less crap to go wrong. Plus, you're more than likely familiar with iron sights from the service. And IMO, I'd never buy a complete gun. Buy a complete lower, have it shipped to a local FFL, and then find a complete upper. If you're set on BM, that's cool, but if you buy separately, and mail order, you'll save on the federal excise tax and also on sales tax. |
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