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Posted: 4/30/2007 12:13:05 PM EDT
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My son-in-law saw my first AR build the other day. He said a lot of guys in his unit were getting ARs as apparetly they get the ammo free while active duty and was thinking about getting one too. Sounds good to me. He is getting ready for his 3rd tour to the hotbox. When he gets back I'd love to build him one or buy him one as a surprise. He will have 4 more years to get his 20 in once he returns this time so hopefully he won't have a 5th tour. So, how do I do this? I see that I can't buy one as a gift without it being considered a staw purchase. If I state NO that I am not the end buyer or whatever that question is on the form then won't I be turned down? And if i say yeah, it's mine and then give it to him aren't I now a criminal? How do you do this and stay within these idiotic laws? Is there a "give a soldier a gun" exemption? |
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Just check your state laws about transfer of guns for private ownership. Here in Texas I would just buy it, keep it till he comes back from the Sandbox, and then give it to him when he gets back. Option 2 is to buy it, have the gun store hold on to it, take him to lunch and go by the gunstore where he fills out the 4473 and shows his military ID, good to go. Option 3, give him one of the lowers/guns you already own, and then buy another one to replace it. Hopefully somebody familiar with TN gun laws for private ownership can chime in here. |
That's not a bad idea! |
And if you have one that you've used in a crime, it would be a great way to say "I care" and avoid prosecution! NOTE: The above was intended to be humorous. Committing crimes is illegal. Seriously though, I don't see any problem just buying it, and selling it to him later... or what TX_Cop suggested about having the dealer hold it and fill out a 4473 for him (unless you're worried about an AWB before he comes back). |
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I had the same situation and checked with a lawyer. A "straw purchase" is only illegal IF the other person is NOT legally able to own a gun for any reason. This is in practice, that is.... the law doesn't say this, but that's how its enforced. A "gift" to a qualified person is no different than a "sale" to the same qualified person. Beyond that, unless your state requires some formality for a personal sale (I don't know that any do), you're OK. Now, if you tell the gun shop that you're buying it as a gift, they will in all likelihood get suspicious unless they know you, not sell it to you, and maybe even turn you in..... so I wouldn't tell them that. Maybe in the end you could explain it all away to the ATF, but why invite the hassle... |
That's something I never knew. So this whole thing got started because Mrs. Brady was a piss poor mother, and didn't know her own son. |
So an anit-gun activist broke a gun law? Ohhhh the irony. |
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I'm not surpised with anything the Brady Bunch does. I thnk the best idea is to give him the one he likes so much of mine and get myself another. This is just crazy. If I intend to give a gift to someone I become a criminal unless I "plan" it out. What a world we live in. My new favorite expression though is "committing crimes is illegal". I LOVE THAT!!!!! Thanks, jzdziarski!!! If only politicians and judges would realize that we'd be better off. |
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In this case, you ARE the end buyer ... until your son-in-law returns. There is nothing illegal about buying a gun and then transferring it to your son-in-law when he gets back. Gifting it to him is irrelevant, as long as you do the transfer in a manner that's legal in your state. Assuming he's a resident of TN, check your state laws on doing a face-to-face transfer and follow those rules. Or, completely cover your bases by transferring it via an FFL. Here's a link to the NRA web-site on state gun laws. I checked the Tennessee section, and as far as I can tell ... you are legally allowed to simply give him the gun. Another idea is to do is call a local gun-shop and ask them what's legal (or not). |
If you are purchasing as a gift you are the actual purchaser, so you answer YES on 11a.
US DoJ's own form says you can purchase as gifts, however, State laws vary. |
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Ok, thanks guys. I know the law here for transfers. I can just lay it in the back of his jeep and wave bye. I just think this "straw" purchase thing can be taken any way an agent wanting to cost me lost of money wants to take it. I'd love to think law abiding people woud be treated as such but I think I know better. Unless I'm in court I'm guilty until proven innocent just like with the IRS. I know a couple of ATF guys and while they are nice to hang around and drink coffee with, listening to some of the stories of things they say they've done because someone didn't say how high when when they said jump is just scary. I don't know if these things are true or not but it still worries me to no end that abuses like that go on but I'm rambling now. I know abuse of power happens at all levels at most places. Thanks again for the answers/suggestions. |
So when LE gets abusive, do you believe it's right to just bend over and take it in the keister? Based on what I've read so far, it seems well within your rights to give or sell a gun to your son, presuming you don't make the same mistake that Sarah Brady did and not check if her son was not allowed to own a firearm. It sounds like you're a better parent than that. IIWY, I'd do what you're permitted within the law to do, and if the ATF has beef with it, take it to court and stand up for your rights. You have the option, of course, to let them act like the gestapo and scare you into submission, but I would recomend exercising your rights, and what our laws allow, before you lose both. |
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I have an FFL. I have talked to the ATF about this. A straw purchase is where someone knowingly purchases a firearm for someone who cannot, ie. someone who always gets denied on the NICS, a convicted felon, etc. If you purchase a firearm and intend to give it away as a gift, you are the actual purchaser of the firearm. No different than buying a firearm and later on down the road doing a ftf private sale. If it would make you feel better, you could always go to a dealer and let him run it through his books and do the 4473 and NICS on your son-in-law. A dealer has the right to refuse any sale. State laws may vary. |
just buy it and give it to him. No big deal. You don't have a criminal intent, I imagine if he's in the military he's good to go to purchase one on his own anyhow. That and I wouldn't wait. Laws can change...unfortunately. |
| What you should do it buy it for yourself, get it broken in and all sighted in and what not so its def, yours and used (although basically not) and then give it as a gift. You get to play with a new toy and he gets a gun with no hiccups that as for all intents and purposes still new |
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