AR Sponsor
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Curious about DPMS (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 3/20/2007 5:57:38 PM EDT
| I have only been on this forum for several months and am curious about the DPMS bashing I have seen on here. Does anyone have any actual instances in combat or LE situations where their DPMS rifle failed them? If so, what was the failure due to? Because it was a DPMS? What exactly is it that makes them such an inferior weapon? Do they have lesser quality barrels, lowers, lower parts, uppers, bcg, gas tubes, buffers, buffer springs, or what? Is the quality of metal not as good or parts consistently out of spec? Just what is it? Oh yeah, I am not affilliated with DPMS in any way, shape, or form. Thanks for your replies. |
|
Apparently they havent always been so great a rifle. However, Ive seen Colts and FNs and even a GM in the Army. If had a choice between any of the rifles in the arms room at my unit and my DPMS, I'd take the DPMS. The fit and finish is better (than what Ive seen, which I will admit I have never seen a NIB Colt of FN, only used rifles) and the trigger is WAY better than the FN rifle I shot at Basic. My DPMS swallows Monarch (russian brass cased) ammo without fail. Ive had a Colt sieze up so bad from less than 200 rds. (it was blanks, but thats no excuse) that the only thing the foward assist accomplished was bruising my palm. People bash DPMS, I dont have the slightest clue why. They bash C-Products magazines also. I have ten of them and they all work fine, with my DPMS rifle. People bash Romanian WASR-10s, the number of rounds I have through mine is four digits. I have zero malfunctions. People praise russian AKs, I shot my TLs Russian Saiga and had a failure to feed (magazine related). I went to AIT with a guy who thinks we should all be shooting M1s and every weapons development since is an unreliable, innacurate bullet hose. Ironically, he thanks God he got a SAW because "the M4 is a piece of shit". He has never fired an M4. Ive NEVER had a malfunction with my DPMS M4, its got far more rounds through it than Ive put through my SAW, and my SAW has had a MASSIVE malfunction, the clearing of which consisted of removing the barrel and taking a mangled link ut of the chamber with my Gerber tool. The conclusion I have reached about bashing of equipment is most of the time people bash equipment or praise equipment that they have never actually used themselves. If you have never even taken one to the range, shut the hell up. Maybe I just got lucky, but the rifle in my possesion indicates that DPMS is an outstanding manufacturer of rifles. |
|
i've never owned a complete DPMS firearm h/w, i have seen a couple of thier complete uppers run into slight problems; thier LPK i got was missing a couple parts and a few pins were not w/in spec and required filing/fitting overall, they are ok, but i would not rate em as the "best" |
|
I owned a DPMS AP4 AR15 for almost a year. Fired thousands of rounds with decent accuracy and never had a single malfunction that wasn't user error (magazine seating was sometimes an issue with certain mags). I loved it while I had it. I sold it last week and bought a Bushmaster XM15-E2S AR15. |
Thats basically the impression i get, the exception being the lowers. From my small amount of experience with DPMS i own 3 lowers which all were great fit , finish and were in spec, & a BCG thats now a spare(dont trust it anymore  ).I would buy their lowers NP but would hesitate to buy anything else made by them especially their LPK's. Theres so many well known companies out there (LMT, CMT, RRA  & COLT) why not buy quality?
|
| My big gripe with DPMS is a I bought a LPK and it had two selectors and no magazine catch. I called DPMS about it and they said they would send one out, they never did. So I got a part from another manufacturer. When I went to install the parts kit some of the pins were badly out of spec and had to be messed with to fit. |
I have more Colts than DPMS Rifles, and I can tell you that all 4 of my DPMS Rifles are 100% reliable. If they were not 100% reliable at any given time I would post about it, and I sure would not recommend one then. |
|
I've gotten two stripped lowers, two lpks, and a complete upper and all have been top notch. I've gotten them all within the last year so that might have something to do with it (or not), but after comparing it to my Bushy, I'm convinced that it's good to go. Staking of the bolt carrier was better than bushy and the actual machining of the receivers was the slightest bit better as well. I like the anodizing or whatever it is that bushmaster has for their finish but the actual machining was better on the DPMS by a hair. For the money, it can't be beat. It's just that based on many other people's comments, make sure that you can get in touch with whomever you bought it from if new. |
|
I donât really care for DPMS weapons as I have not had a good experience with them. In fact my experience with their product is by far the worst of any firearm related product I have had to date. Iâll give you a brief overview and ask you to remember this is just my experience and opinion. I used to work at a local sporting goods store; a friend and I had seen an article in an industry magazine about DPMS rifles and how great they were so we decided to buy two identical rifles. The two rifles were ordered with the hi-rider upper, 20-inch cryoed stainless barrel and vented floating hand guards. First off I was told that the hi rider had a shell deflector, being left handed this is a requirement on an AR. The hi-rider upper does not have a shell deflector or a forward assist. It appears much thicker and heavier (investment cast) than a standard A1, A2 or M4 upper, just doesnât look right to me and it ejects the empties right into my face. The upper and lower do not mate together very well; the acuwedge is a requirement. The receivers are also not hard coat anodized as Colt, Bushmaster and Armalite as well as most other reputable manufactures; this may have changed. With soft coat anodizing any scratch will got right through the finish into the aluminum; when a scope is installed the steel clamps from the scope rings gouge right into the aluminum rail; I have not had this happen to any of my Colt or Bushmaster rifles. Both of the DPMS rifles leak gas at the gas block. The gas block appeared to have roll pins mashed down like rivets to secure it. Others like the ABC companies use solid tapered pins to secure the front sight/gas block. The front sight/gas block is a slip fitting and is never going to be 100% but the DPMS rifle leaks quite a bit. There is always a black mess to clean up on the barrel around the gas block. DPMS uses the Sporter style bolt carrier with the AR-15 style exposed firing pin. These firing pins are supposed to be hard chromed and this is especially needed with the exposed firing pin. The DPMS firing pin looked as if it was hard chromed, but was easily chewed up to the point where it was sharp enough to cut me. The bolt that came with my rifle had to be replaced and was with a Colt bolt. The hole in the DPMS bolt for the extractor pin was drilled too far inboard; the extractor didnât have enough room to pivot, thus it could not clamp onto the round it is stripping out of the magazine. The rifle could not be fired from day one! DPMS is really the bottom of the barrel when it comes to rifle as far as Iâm concerned. Iâve read of some folks having their rifles that have not given them problems, but everybody gets lucky once in a while, even DPMS. Iâd tell you to stay as far away as possible, and get something worth having like one of the ABC brands. |
| I owned a DPMS lower a while back but sold it to a freind of mine who wanted it. I liked it, I tell you I put it side by side with my Colt and RRA and I couldn't tell the difference. I think a lot of people would eat crow if they knew who made what. And besides I have read a LOT on here about people having problems with LMT stuff but they still get raved about. Just my .02 |
Might I inquire as to the date when you got the rifles.... I've seen this same exact story word for word on other forums before....you may or may not be a member on them |
| I've used many a part from DPMS and never had any problems with "out of spec". Their prices aren't bad and have free shipping when ordering from their website. I laugh at how many brag about Colt, but have had my share of them, and had to use an accu-wedge in every one, especailly the ones that came with the wedge years ago. I also remember them making a statement about not selling to the public. |
|
+1 |
|
My second AR-15 was a used gun I bought from CMMG at a gun show (they had them in a barrel â "your choice $550"). These were assembled from used and surplus parts. All of them had DPMS "blem" lowers that they purchased to put these guns together. That fact sort of changed my thinking on DPMS a bit. If CMMG was willing to send out rifles built on DPMS lowers they must not be too bad. Since then I've built a couple of rifles with a combination of Bushmaster, DPMS and Double Star parts. One rifle is now almost entirely DPMS except for the bolt and barrel. It went together fine and it runs just fine. The upper/lower fit isn't quite as good as the others but I figure that's just standard variability. One of those rubber wedge things tightens it up fine. Bottom line for me is that they're all kit guns. No matter what they say on the side they're probably sourced from all over the place. The parts on a DPMS may have been made in the same factory as some of the parts on a Bushmaster or RRA or Colt. I'm not speaking specifics here so no need to nitpick. I'm just saying that there's a lot of private labeling, jobbing and outsourcing going on in this industry. I'm not sure the name on the side means all that much until you get into the exotic stuff. When you're looking at stuff at similar price points it's probably all about the same. |
|
In my experience there is absolutely no qualitative difference between Armalite, Bushmaster, DPMS and RRA. All of them cut corners to cut costs and rely on their consumer base for quality control. DPMS puts out gems and turds in equal measure with its competitors. If these brands are the only four choices, buy whichever one has the features you want, at the lowest price you can find. With any of these brands, buy from a reputable dealer who will stand behind the product if there are problems. Brewer |
| I think there is some truth to DPMS being a lower tier manufacturer from their early days. The AR system is not something that can just be thrown together from inferior parts with sloppy tolerances and clearances. No offense to anybody, but it's not an AK. But, I also think DPMS is trying to put out a better product. Their .308 line seems to be proving this. But, a bad reputation is hard to live down. |
I don't know. I have a hard time viewing anything assembled with roll pins as a precision instrument. |
I have used 1 lower parts kit came with a bonus part 1 extra selector switch. I used 1 of there A1/C7 style uppers nice finish but would not take a milspec C/H (Colt) and rear sight was non L marked and the same height both apps., swapped those out and no problems on fit or function otherwise. Don't want to hi-Jack just a basic quality question.  Thinking about a build with 1 of their bull bbl.s anybody know who makes their bbl.s and if on average they shoot? |
Their .308 line is OK because they were the sub for Remington on the SASS product and they were held to a higher standard. On the plus side, Randy Luth (IIRC the owners name) is active in promoting RKBA and such, and gives rifles and stuff to raffles and auctions for good causes. |
My issues were not operator related errors, of that I can assure you. |
|
I own one (.223-5.56)... It has malfunctioned twice due to magazines... and I've run about 1,500 friends through it. A couple double feeds, which I believe are always the mag's fault. It's more than capable of "head shots" at 200 yards or so... but only in my shoddy hands. DPMS is a great value... but I would suggest someone else for a .223-5.56...Colt, LMT, Bushmaster, Rock River. .308/7.62 is a completely different story. Screw Armalite. 
|
|
I have purchased seven DPMS LPK from Brownellsand all fit fine. One kit was missing two parts (a detent and detent spring) but I called Brownells and they sent me the replacements right away. I put together a lower using a Stag parts, and the fit and quality of the lpk was about the same. I have a DPMS M-4 type barrel assembly on my Armalite lower and it fits, functions, and shoots great!! The only gripe that I had with it was it took DPMS six weeks to get me the lower, but with a 10% discount for military and LE, you can't beat the price!! But they made up for it by giving me a free chrome-lined barrel and free shipping. I shot it this past weekend with a Dane Armory with a Ameetec M-4 upper and they both held their own. All told, I put 600 rounds ( a lot of fast action drills, not just slow fire) through the DPMS without one single malfunction. Can't complain about DPMS quality. I will say that after being on this board for the past year, I have noticed that everyone puts out a occasional "turd", wich include Colt, LMT, RRA, and Stag to name few. DPMS may have had a crappy product in the past, but their product has GREATLY inproved to almost a 180 degree turn around. I would not hesitate to buy from them again. The only AR brands I would stay away from are Vulcan/Hesse and Oly. |
|
I have a DPMS Dissipator (see my dinner pic) which I have had for over three years now. $700 and it shoots like a dream. Suprisingly accurate as well. I'd definitely buy from them again, if I could get another price like that. Their customer service has also been first-rate. They are a Minnesota company (I live in MN) and they hire a lot of vets. |
Oh, I thought you were being sarcastic. I assure you, there are many here who don't know how to run a rifle.
|
+1 to that The Lincoln, NE tactical team dumped their MP5s for DPMS shorties and they would run with 5.56 ammo and they are POS jamamatics. I'd rather have a working, proven 9mm SMG than a mediocre 5.56 shorty anyday. |
|
Over the last 5 years I've owned 4 DPMS lowers, 2 DPMS uppers, and 3 other LPK's from DPMS. I still own 2 of the lowers, and 1 of the uppers, along with 2 of the LPK's, I didn't sell them because they were lemons, just because I was done with that project or style of rifle and moved on to something else. A buddy of mine has a complete DPMS he picked up and has been having lots of fun with it over the last year, we get out shooting about 200-300 round a month, so it's coming up close to 3K rounds, and no problems, other than him learning how to lube it properly and choose good ammunition. |
|
DPMS has had issues like most companies, but never saw more than anyone else. Know of a handful of cop ninjas who have had great luck, and those who have had marginal luck with DPMS. I have also heard those same comments about Bushmaster, and Rock River. Been around allot of these types of weapons, and seen failures in most all brands. Maybe just dumb luck on my part. Back when I didn't know shit about these AR platforms, my first stick was a DPMS. Never gave me a problem. Looking back, I could give a crap who's roll mark was on the mag well, I was having fun, and learning. Wish I still had that rifle. Have become a bit snobbier now with my LMT's and Colt's. In the real world, egos and a roll marks don't mean poop, reliability is the shiz. DPMS is a fine company worth my hard earned coin again. Jim |
Kinda what I figured.
|
| Please keep in mind that DPMS sells Thousands of stripped lowers each year. Customers build our lowers into rifles they may or may not have DPMS parts. All DPMS barrels are marked DPMS and the Barrel twist. All DPMS Uppers and lowers are hardcoat anodized and Teflon coated. This has been done since the start of or business. All fire control parts are per Mil Spec on dimensions, the correct steel and heat treat. All stripped lowers are marked with a âKâ at the end of the serial number. All complete rifles that leave DPMS do not have a âKâ at the end of the serial number. All DPMS Built rifles have a 3year warranty. |
I love DPMS products. I have had nothing but good experiences with them and find them to be a far better value than Bushmaster or Colt. I always hear about DPMS problems, but I have been shooting them for years and building them for years and they have always seemed top quality to me. Different strokes for different folks. The rifle below shoots under 1'' at 100 yards and never once jammed or anything else like that, but it needs an A3 upper so very bad! I'd say the biggest problem I have had with them is their plastic. Every time I build a DPMS I make it a point to never buy any of their plastic parts with the one exception of the new stock that I really like so far, their hand guards, standard stocks, and pistol grips suck, but most guys get all after market stuff anyways.  |
|
I was shooting my LMT M4 along with a guy next to me he had a DPMS M4 type it fit was solid and aws Very Very accurate He also drove a James Bond Car AH so money wasnt a issue for him I would have no trouble useing there forge lowers and a LMT ,Colt,Bravo, upper BTW its ALL ABOUT Q.C. and SPEC/Testing |
+1 I just had a bad experience with a DPMS LPK purchased a week ago, none of the roll pins were rolled tight, thus all too big and the bolt catch plunger was missing.The PG screw was odd a slightly different thread. Some of the parts weren't even finished in black--the trigger guard detent was silver. I compared and built two different lowers with a Stag LPK and a DPMS LPK as that's all they had. I've also heard and read here that DPMS makes nice barrels but their LPK  ...
|
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Curious about DPMS (Page 1 of 2)
AR Sponsor