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Posted: 3/27/2006 1:42:04 PM EDT
I am on SLCPD S.W.A.T team, I want to know information on shorter barrel's, specifically 11". In my Job I am not a sniper and the longets shot I would ever have to take would be for qualifications and that is at 100 yds for operaters on team. The biggest question I have is , Will accuracey really be affected at 100 yds (not looking for a sniper score, meaning I dont care if I cant cover my hits with a quarter. Body hits are just fine).
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 1:44:13 PM EDT
Accuracy has nothing to do with barrel lenght.
A 11.5" at short distance (less than 100 yrds) will be as accurate as a 20"
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 1:47:09 PM EDT
Thanks, It is good to hear it from someone besides the redneck on our team who says it has a huge difference!
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 1:48:57 PM EDT
Thanks, It is good to hear it from someone besides the redneck on our team who says it has a huge difference!
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 1:49:23 PM EDT
Like mentioned before, bbl length does not affect accuracy.
It does effect velocity though.
Read the ammo oracle found here
Scroll down to the part about ammo choice with short bbl AR15s.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 1:52:12 PM EDT
Length of barrel has no bearing on the accuracy of the barrel. If you had a 24" barrel made by some hack idiot with all kinds of tolerance issues and a shitty crown it wont shoot, unless the target is 25" away!!

All length has to do with is velocity and velocity has nothing to do with accuracy unless your bullet goes transonic which will destabilize it.

Link Posted: 3/27/2006 1:54:02 PM EDT
Velocity is, however, an important consideration in terminal effectiveness... you might want to think about this carefully.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 3:25:52 PM EDT
tag cuz I'm sure this is gonna go south somewhere...
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 3:34:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 3:36:01 PM EDT by stangleonthedangle]
In general, velocity does have an effect on accuracy. The slower the bullet goes the longer wind can have an effect on it's path. The quicker it gets there the less effect the wind can have.

Obviously the closer your target is the less important windage is.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 3:37:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 4:39:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:

Originally Posted By StealthyBlagga:
Velocity is, however, an important consideration in terminal effectiveness... you might want to think about this carefully.



If terminal effectiveness was a consideration he would not be choosing a .223 poodle-shooter.

The gun is going to be extremely loud, you might want to consider a silencer as not to damage your hearing or the hearing of others.



Que?
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 4:55:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 4:55:43 PM EDT by 20iner]
suprises me how many people here still dont know that 5.56 ball is more effective than .308, 762x39, etc as long as it frags (2700fps). Your 11" bbl will do so to about 30yrds or so. Not to say you cant ruin someone's day at 100yrds with it though.

11.5 should be fine, with likely better accuracy ay 100yrds than even a 20". I would reccomend 14.5 or 16" though.

With 16", you hardly lose any velocity compared to 20"
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:10:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:22:53 PM EDT
IM sent.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:23:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 9:23:28 PM EDT by Ryan1021]
To the original poster, do you happen to know what the twist rate is on your rig? It has little to due with your question, I was just curious.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:48:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
5.56 ball does not frag. Might go tumbly but does not frag.



Um...yes it does...
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 8:55:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Phoebus:

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
5.56 ball does not frag. Might go tumbly but does not frag.



Um...yes it does...



+1


thats why it's so goddamn effective.

Rooms cleared with 11.5" bbls leaves a nasty mess.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 9:11:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 3:27:00 PM EDT by Dragonfly228]
HP's frag really nice at 20'. Check the proof target where you can see all the frag bits after it passed through a "wet media" (phone book soaked through). Note that the wet media doesn't really provide any useful data, but the proof sheet really shows that the 5.56HP round fragmented after impact. I shot this through a 14.5" barrel BM upper.



I did this test with 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 as well and those just tumbled and keyholed the proof sheet.

Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:46:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dragonfly228:
HP's frag really nice at 20'. Check the proof target where you can see all the frag bits after it passed through a "wet media" (phone book soaked through). Note that the wet media doesn't really provide any useful data, but the proof sheet really shows that the 5.56HP round fragmented after impact. I shot this through a 14.5" barrel BM upper.

img208.imageshack.us/img208/4403/phbookproof5562td.jpg img446.imageshack.us/img446/1760/phbooksback5569tb.jpg img277.imageshack.us/img277/4672/phbooksback5452tn.jpg

I did this test with 7.72x39 and 5.45x39 as well and those just tumbled and keyholed the proof sheet.




maybe, but I haven't seen a rifle that fires 7.72 yet!
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:34:56 PM EDT
If it can't be killed with an 11.5, I doubt it could be killed with any 5.56mm weapon. I would be more concerned with getting one that ran 100%, as the shorties are a touch more finicky.

I'd call Ken Elmore at Specialized Armament and order up either an RO933 or an LE6933 depending on whether the boss said auto was OK or not. Since it's papered anyway, might as well have it, right?
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:45:20 PM EDT
would a 14.5 work, its still very managable indoors and they really run good, no personal experience but friends with shortys and they seem to need more love to keep them going.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 3:08:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By stangleonthedangle:
In general, velocity does have an effect on accuracy. The slower the bullet goes the longer wind can have an effect on it's path. The quicker it gets there the less effect the wind can have.

Obviously the closer your target is the less important windage is.



Wind does not effect accuracy! Guns at Camp Perry dont become less accurate just because the wind picks up. Wind is an external factor in your example. If you shoot 5 rounds in the same wind and all the holes are close accuracy was not effected. Point of aim and impact are effected but if the impacts are all in the same place the barrel is still accurate.


Secondly shooting a short barrel indoors while clearing a house, wind doesnt have any appreciable effect!


Link Posted: 3/28/2006 3:13:08 PM EDT
just pick a good load. 5.56 Hornady TAP is a great choice...
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 3:35:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 4:04:08 PM EDT by 20iner]

Originally Posted By 0612Devil:
just pick a good load. 5.56 Hornady TAP is a great choice...



It is said that TAP is not a good choice because they use VMAX bullets, which were designed for varmints and have weak penetration.

Some BH 77gr OTM would be a good choice.

Edit because I type faster than I think
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:38:09 PM EDT
I don't know about the lighter TAP loads, but the 75gr stuff is optimal for use on two legged varmints.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:59:56 PM EDT
I have a Colt lower with a 20" 1/9 HBAR upper and a 11.5 1/9 HBAR upper
To look at my 100 yard targets you can't tell what upper I was using!!!
at 300 yards the 20" upper still keeps a nice tight grouping & the 11.5" upper is lucky to stay on paper!!!

Under 100yds.... The 11.5" is tons of fun & VERY accurate!!!
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 8:14:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 20iner:

Originally Posted By 0612Devil:
just pick a good load. 5.56 Hornady TAP is a great choice...



It is said that TAP is not a good choice because they use VMAX bullets, which were designed for varmints and have weak penetration.

Some BH 77gr OEM would be a good choice.



I meant their 75gr OTM. Loaded to NATO pressures, it's in their LE line...
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