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Posted: 2/4/2006 12:00:08 PM EDT
I know many of you don't shoot at public ranges, but for those who do... I have a quick question. This is for those who shoot at ranges without range-nazis telling you when you can and can't shoot.

I was at a range awhile ago and was shooting my AR-15, sighting it in. There was one other person using the range, and whenever we'd go cold to inspect targets, he wanted me to unload my gun, remove the mag and clear it with the bolt held open. That was honestly the first time anyone has asked me to go through anything like that just to go down range... usually it's just stay the hell away from the guns, don't load any mags, don't touch anything until everyone's clear and says they're ready to go hot.

I've never been to an organized range with a range-officer telling me when I can and can't shoot (as if it weren't blatantly obvious when you can or can't shoot). Typically, I go to the range alone or with a friend or two and we use the "common sense" rules stated above.

Is that normal or was this person being a abnormally cautious?
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 12:20:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MlTCHELL:
I know many of you don't shoot at public ranges, but for those who do... I have a quick question. This is for those who shoot at ranges without range-nazis telling you when you can and can't shoot.

I was at a range awhile ago and was shooting my AR-15, sighting it in. There was one other person using the range, and whenever we'd go cold to inspect targets, he wanted me to unload my gun, remove the mag and clear it with the bolt held open. That was honestly the first time anyone has asked me to go through anything like that just to go down range... usually it's just stay the hell away from the guns, don't load any mags, don't touch anything until everyone's clear and says they're ready to go hot.

I've never been to an organized range with a range-officer telling me when I can and can't shoot (as if it weren't blatantly obvious when you can or can't shoot). Typically, I go to the range alone or with a friend or two and we use the "common sense" rules stated above.

Is that normal or was this person being a abnormally cautious?



That's normal range procedure. The range where I shoot has no on duty RO. We police ourselves.
If someone on the line fails to follow this procedure, I won't hesitate to ask them to. It's written on the back of our badges.

I have no problem showing someone else a clear chamber. I wish people wouldn't act put off when I look at theirs.

TC
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 12:22:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 12:25:07 PM EDT
That's completely normal. Guns always point downrange, and when not in use, go condition 4.

damian@adcofirearms.com
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 12:26:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Shadowblade:
Normal range procedure around here too.



+1 We even get screamed at for no extra charge
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 12:34:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Shadowblade:
Normal range procedure around here too.



+1 Here also.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 12:34:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MlTCHELL:
I know many of you don't shoot at public ranges, but for those who do... I have a quick question. This is for those who shoot at ranges without range-nazis telling you when you can and can't shoot.

I was at a range awhile ago and was shooting my AR-15, sighting it in. There was one other person using the range, and whenever we'd go cold to inspect targets, he wanted me to unload my gun, remove the mag and clear it with the bolt held open. That was honestly the first time anyone has asked me to go through anything like that just to go down range... usually it's just stay the hell away from the guns, don't load any mags, don't touch anything until everyone's clear and says they're ready to go hot.

I've never been to an organized range with a range-officer telling me when I can and can't shoot (as if it weren't blatantly obvious when you can or can't shoot). Typically, I go to the range alone or with a friend or two and we use the "common sense" rules stated above.

Is that normal or was this person being a abnormally cautious?



That is standard procedure everywhere common sense rules.

In fact, if your refuse such a request at my club, you will be escorted out if you are not a member, or you will be disciplined if you are.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 12:40:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2006 12:42:17 PM EDT by Colt_SBR]

Originally Posted By Shadowblade:
Normal range procedure around here too.



I don't like to stand in front of loaded firearms.

When we qualify, we have to clear our weapons and holster them. If it's a long gun, it's cleared with the breach opened. If it's an outside range, it's laid, facing up.

We never leave our firearms unattended. Someone is always with the weapons. We don't want uninvited guests messing with them.


_____________________


Link Posted: 2/4/2006 12:43:02 PM EDT
sounds good to me.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 12:43:41 PM EDT
At the range I go to they make you unload it and open the action. It makes sense to do it that way I think. Obviously you aren't stupid but it just makes everyone more comfortable and ensures that there are no accidents.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 12:54:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bushwacker85:

Originally Posted By Shadowblade:
Normal range procedure around here too.



+1 Here also.



+1
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 12:58:10 PM EDT

Nothing wrong with that request. Leave nothing to chance.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 1:06:50 PM EDT
I would rather have every rifle open and inspected before I went down range at a public range.

Get real ---- it i s called safety!!!!
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 1:16:57 PM EDT
Normal for here too..

and I have absolutely no problem with it... aside from the fact I have to chase down an unspent catridge if it rolls off the table or something..
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 1:37:35 PM EDT
Our public state park range requires the safety on and the weapon laid on the table in front of you, no touching until everyone is back behind the line of fire and the range is hot again. Unloading is not required.

Our training range at work is always run "hot" at all times because that is how you will be carrying your gun in public, loaded and on your hip.

In my opinion, if you are a guest at a public range or gun club you should probably follow their rules as a sign of respect on their property. If you don't agree with their rules than go to a different range. That is what I did when one of the local gun clubs started a "no talking" rule on the firing line and some rather ridiculous unloading requirements whenever someone wanted to go downrange. They also forbid off duty officers and CCW citizens from carrying their gun loaded on property. I thought these rules were excessive and I resigned my membership. Moved on to another club that allows off duty and CCW carry on property. After all, it is a GUN/SHOOTING club.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 1:40:42 PM EDT
They don't know you. The only way they can be sure they're not in danger is to essentially disarm you. Note: ignore the possible analogy to gun carry politics. And yes, I would comply without complaint and would hope others do the same. No-one wants to be downrange of a loaded firearm.

GL
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 1:55:00 PM EDT
Hmmm... well, it's not like I specifically loaded stuff before going down range. Of course, the majority of the time, when the range goes cold, the guns are empty anyway. I just never really thought it was a big deal to go down range with the guns loaded, so long as nobody was near them.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 1:59:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MlTCHELL:
Hmmm... well, it's not like I specifically loaded stuff before going down range. Of course, the majority of the time, when the range goes cold, the guns are empty anyway. I just never really thought it was a big deal to go down range with the guns loaded, so long as nobody was near them.




what if someone walked by when you were downrange and decided to "play" with your gun? would it be a big deal then? empty gun leaves less room for error.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 2:01:07 PM EDT
Open and show clear, its all fun and games until someone gets shot in the ass
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 2:04:56 PM EDT
I've never witnessed this myself, but I've heard an account of it; There's sometimes people who'll bring their adolescent children with them. My brother was at a public range where someone's teenage son was picking up others benched firearms without permission. The parent evidently wasn't being much of a parent. It also speaks of the responsibility every gun owner has to maintain the safe condition of their firearms at any public gathering. I would've jerked a knot in my boy's butt for doing something like that. Hell, I'd go as far to say that I'd deserve getting my ass kicked for not raising my children better! Lucky for me, my 2 sons KNOW better!
'cheese
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 2:08:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
That is standard procedure everywhere common sense rules.


+1 Just good common sense in a range environment.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 2:39:20 PM EDT
Safety is first and foremost no matter where you shoot or who you are with.

Even when I shoot alone, the gun goes cold before I walk out to check targets. In fact when alone I'll pull the BC out and take it with me just to make sure.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 2:45:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Shadowblade:
Normal range procedure around here too.

ditto
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 10:39:28 PM EDT
I have NEVER been to an 'organized' range at which I wasn't required to put my weapon in C4. If you and I knew each other, had shot some together, etc. we probably wouldn't mind... but with strangers on the range, whose training and diligence is unknown, I feel MUCH safer if guns are C4 when people are changing targets.

I know it sounds like we are all being reduced to the same level of sheep-hood, but considering how dumb some of the OTHER sheep are... I will go along. (Some sheep believe that Rambo movies are historical, you see.)

Link Posted: 2/4/2006 10:55:02 PM EDT
"I just never really thought it was a big deal to go down range with the guns loaded, so long as nobody was near them."

Cook-off....

Or any other unforseen problems...

It is simply just not a good idea to be standing infront of a loaded firearm.. period...

-Not trying to be a dick, just seen bad things happen... be safe...-
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:32:47 AM EDT
At our range there are yellow lines painted on the ground behind the benches your not to cross until the all clear down range from the target check is given. All weapons were checked by the range officer before allowing anyone down range for a target check. Yet it always amazies me that some dumb ass that dosent listen or thinks he knows more then the range officer about safety will aproach the bench to dick with their gun or start removing one from a case while people are still down range. It almost makes me feel like going up to them and sticking my glock in their mouth asking them if they like it as much as I did watching them fondle their firearm while I was down range in front of their barrell. People are stupid and think nothing will ever happen to them. Also if you have a cartdrige jamed that gun will be forceably cleared before anyone tipy toes in front of it.
In short if you take no chances you will have no accidents and if you cant follow the rules most people would rather you shoot by yourself far away from everyone else.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:40:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Open and show clear, its all fun and games until someone gets shot in the ass




Link Posted: 2/5/2006 5:36:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FrankSymptoms:I know it sounds like we are all being reduced to the same level of sheep-hood, but considering how dumb some of the OTHER sheep are... I will go along. (Some sheep believe that Rambo movies are historical, you see.)




I don't see being required to go to condition 4 before going down range as somehow being reduced to the lowest common denominator.

It is standard practice in the military. It is standard practice at every HP match I have ever been in (and HP shooters as a rule are FAR more safety conscious than your avg public range 'tard).

It's common sense. Why leave ANYTHING that you can control to chance?
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 5:45:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Thunderchild:

Originally Posted By MlTCHELL:
I know many of you don't shoot at public ranges, but for those who do... I have a quick question. This is for those who shoot at ranges without range-nazis telling you when you can and can't shoot.

I was at a range awhile ago and was shooting my AR-15, sighting it in. There was one other person using the range, and whenever we'd go cold to inspect targets, he wanted me to unload my gun, remove the mag and clear it with the bolt held open. That was honestly the first time anyone has asked me to go through anything like that just to go down range... usually it's just stay the hell away from the guns, don't load any mags, don't touch anything until everyone's clear and says they're ready to go hot.

I've never been to an organized range with a range-officer telling me when I can and can't shoot (as if it weren't blatantly obvious when you can or can't shoot). Typically, I go to the range alone or with a friend or two and we use the "common sense" rules stated above.

Is that normal or was this person being a abnormally cautious?



That's normal range procedure. The range where I shoot has no on duty RO. We police ourselves.
If someone on the line fails to follow this procedure, I won't hesitate to ask them to. It's written on the back of our badges.

I have no problem showing someone else a clear chamber. I wish people wouldn't act put off when I look at theirs.

TC



Yep thats .S O P in my book! I beleave there is "NEVER" to much safty I always take out the "Mag" and lock the bolt back to the rear! when I'm shooting. My "Dad" taught me that when I was 8yrs old........That 42yrs ago!
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 5:49:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 5:50:18 AM EDT by USMC88-93]
Think of it this way you are not near your weapon but there is the poteitial of someone back on the firing line finger fucking your weapon while you are not near it. Next thing you know someone is dead or injured it could be you.

It is absolutely standard practice at any range I have been to military or otherwise and it just makes sense.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:09:42 AM EDT
As a "Range Nazi" for 8 years I saw a lot of stupid crap. Most of it was preventable and correctable.
Rules were simple, Muzzle always down range, on a cold line weapons made clear and no touching.

We did however have a rifle discharge on it's own with no one even near it.
It was laid on the bench, loaded and pointed downrange. Fortuneately no one was downrange at the time.
It was determined that one of the components in the trigger mechanism had broken from metal fatigue.
This was during a break the RO's were taking, and the line was still technically hot. (Only RO's were on that range at the time.)

Better safe than sorry!
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:15:20 AM EDT
Usually the ranges I shoot on are hot all the time, meaning everything stays loaded. When I'm on a public range, everything is unloaded, bolt to the rear, saftey on, and no persons touching any weapons until everyone is behind the line.

The truth is, no matter how high speed you are, you are only as far away as the nearest idiot from being an accident.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:22:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MlTCHELL:
I know many of you don't shoot at public ranges, but for those who do... I have a quick question. This is for those who shoot at ranges without range-nazis telling you when you can and can't shoot.

I was at a range awhile ago and was shooting my AR-15, sighting it in. There was one other person using the range, and whenever we'd go cold to inspect targets, he wanted me to unload my gun, remove the mag and clear it with the bolt held open. That was honestly the first time anyone has asked me to go through anything like that just to go down range... usually it's just stay the hell away from the guns, don't load any mags, don't touch anything until everyone's clear and says they're ready to go hot.

I've never been to an organized range with a range-officer telling me when I can and can't shoot (as if it weren't blatantly obvious when you can or can't shoot). Typically, I go to the range alone or with a friend or two and we use the "common sense" rules stated above.

Is that normal or was this person being a abnormally cautious?



...seems like a good idea.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:26:46 AM EDT
Standard range procedure.

I have been shooting for a while now and at the Pennsylvania ranges I have gone to there never was a RO. I was in MO a few years ago and shooting at a MODC range. The range officer called out all commands from a remote booth over a PA speaker the entire time and pretty much dictated our every move. It was a whole new experience for me.

In Texas I went to several ranges. Some had RO's, some just let you and the other shooters do your own thing.

Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:32:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:
Usually the ranges I shoot on are hot all the time, meaning everything stays loaded. When I'm on a public range, everything is unloaded, bolt to the rear, saftey on, and no persons touching any weapons until everyone is behind the line.

The truth is, no matter how high speed you are, you are only as far away as the nearest idiot from being an accident.



+1

In northern VA at the NRA range if you dont follow all procedures "unload,bolt to rear etc etc etc
they will ask you to leave , I for 1 think its a good idea, I dont want to get shot by anyone let alone some socker mom learning how to shoot her gun, or some dumb ass being negligant,.,.,.

Hanna
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:35:38 AM EDT
I don't think range safty is to much to ask , its for your benifit also
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:36:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 8:04:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bushwacker85:

Originally Posted By Shadowblade:
Normal range procedure around here too.



+1 Here also.



+100
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 8:09:42 AM EDT
At the State Public Range I shoot at sometimes, Cecil Webb, for you SW Florida boys. If I am by myself I lock my weapons open and clear to go down range, but I take a hot weapon with me. Usually this is a pistol in a holster that stays locked and loaded on my hip the entire time that I am there. Why? There are no ROs and The local gang banger thugs do show up time to time and I do not feel comfortable being 200 yards from Thousands of dollars of my property and me being un armed. If there is no one else on the range my AR goes down range with me. If I am shooting with other people that I know, one person stays behind with the guns and EVERYTHING is left open and clear.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 8:31:12 AM EDT
Hor range or cold range, nobody likes being covered by the muzzle of a loaded firearm. If people are downrange checking targets and I don't have immediate control of the firearm, then the rifle needs to be unloaded to insure it isn't covering someone I don't want covered.

Ask C4Grant about his cook-off during a Pat Rogers count with a relatively low round count. Sensitive primers can pop even when they shouldn't. If you shoot long enough you will see some weird, crazy stuff happen. Whether that weird crazy stuff is just a freaky story to post or an ambulance ride for somebody depends on safety.

At a public range, the added step of laying the rifle down and not messing with it is just common courtesy since nobody has any idea how safety oriented you are or how much sense you have with a rifle. Heck, I have friends I know and love; but I sure keep an eye on them when they are wielding firearms. I'm damn sure not about to step in front of some guy holding a rifle that I've never seen before in my life and get 100 yards away where I can't do anything but yell if he starts to do something stupid...
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 9:14:39 AM EDT
All firearms not in use are unloaded, bolt open, safety on when applicable, muzzle downrange, and on the table.

When a ceasefire is called, all firearms in use with exception to fixed magazine firearms, are reduce to the above mentioned state. For fixed magazine firearms, I leave the remaining rounds in the mag but otherwise identical state as above.

The ROs at my range will call for a ceasefire over the PA. Shooters clear their weapons, post red flags, and step away from their benches. Then the RO declares the range cold.

I'm wondering what everyone else's preference when it comes to fixed-mag rifles?
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 10:33:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 10:34:24 AM EDT by SWO_daddy]

Originally Posted By CK1: I'm wondering what everyone else's preference when it comes to fixed-mag rifles?

Even if the rifle has a blind magazine, I do not think it is too much to ask that it be emptied. 99% of such weapons are bolt action rifles that hold 5 rounds and emptying them by cycling the bolt takes about 5 seconds. If it's a controlled round feeding rifle (Mauser, most Model 70s, Ruger M77 MK II etc.), push the bolt fwd just enough for the cartridge to be caught in the extractor then pull back to eject. If it's a push-feed (Rem 700 and the like) tilt the rifle 90 deg CW and cycle the bolt fwd just enough to pop a round out of the mag and back. Rounds will just drop on the table.

If the bolt action has a floorplate at the bottom of the mag, it just takes the push of one button to open it and dump the mag on the table.
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