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Posted: 10/30/2005 6:56:36 AM EDT
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Hi folks, I am not an "operator". I do not perform tactical entry. I am not in law enforcement or the armed forces. I am just some dood who likes to collect guns & go bang away at the range from time to time. I have a collection of various Milsurp rifles from WWI to the present. Some are genuine issue weapons, others are civilian approximations. I am looking to round out the modern end of my collection with a couple of representative AR-15s. I have a pretty standard A2 that I think captures the basic essence of a Cold War era M16A2. What I would like to add now is a carbine that approximates something you might see in Iraq. What would that look like? Obviously I have to get a 16" barrel, but beyond that... flat top or carry handle? Rail system? Some sort of dot sight? which model? I see a lot of laser designators strapped to the forend with zip ties... I wonder if there are fake ones someplace. I am led to believe that soldiers are being given some leway as to what they put on their carbines these days so some variation would be common. How about slings & attachment points? Remember, I am not looking for the "best" carbine, but rather something that would be at home in Iraq or Afghanistan (with obvious conceits made for NFA purposes). Thanks for the input. --JJK |
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M4 clone from a quality maker, with removable carry handle. Knight's Armament foreward rail system. Knight's vertical grip. M68 Aimpoint or ACOG. Six position collapsible stock or LMT SOPMOD. That would be a pretty good start. By the way, the zip tie isn't the mounting sytem. it's just a redundant back up, so the soldier doesn't lose an expensive toy if the item get's loose and falls off. |
There are a lot of options, and you would probably be better served by finding a picture of a weapon that you liked, and then developing it that way. You are 100% correct in that there is a LOT of leeway being given with the different branches, units, and even individuals. |
 i split the difference and got a RRA mid-lenghth upper--love it! |
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Most of the troops in Iraq are carrying the standard M16A2 still. However, once you get into special forces you get into the M4. You will want a 14.5 inch barrel with a quadrail forearm, flat top reciever with an EOTech, or ACOG, depending on the purpose of the mission, and preference. You would also want a vertical grip and a weapons light and laser. The six position collapsible stock is a given. Also you will want a three point tactical sling. This is a must. Almost all troops in Iraq are now using this, it is much easier to control your weapon. The troops are given a lot more leeway these days on what goes on their weapons. Three point slings are optional, but they are used a lot. The ones you are seeing with zipties are probably accessories that weren't issued, or they got issued the accessory and weren't issued the mount. |
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One of the considerations for your project is how much money you are willing to put in to it. The most accurate replica will have a 14.5 barrel with A2 flash hider. This makes the rifle a short barreled rifle (SBR) with barrel length slightly less than 16". You can own one in this configuration with proper government paperwork and tax stamp - see the M16 forum for detailed info. The downside it that this creates additional expense and time delays waiting to get the registration paperwork approved. The next best option is a 14.5 barrel with a permanently attached muzzle device that brings the length to 16" or more. This is the most popular choice as no registraiton is required, no tax stamp, no long waiting. The two flash hiders I would recommend for this purpose would be 1) Sabre Defence extended A2 flash hider available from Talon Arms or 2) KKF A3MilSpec from Kurts Custom Firearms. Both are visually similar to the standard A2 but long enough you don't have an SBR provided they are permanently attached. Some of your other questions: flat top or carry handle? flat top Rail system? Knights RAS Some sort of dot sight? which model? Most common would be Aimpoint with Aimpoint QRP mount with spacer Sling mounts? Rear of the stock and side sling swivel mounted on the barrel Stock? 4 position collapsable stock is the correct version but other options would not be a visual distraction to your replica. I'm not saying these are the only right answers, just that these are likely the most common items that would be seen. For info on the real deal go to Colt's website. |
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Thanks for all the great input. Since this is still just a thought exercise let's say cost is not a factor. Here are a couple examples that I might want to replicate: Grainy pic, but you can see an Aimpoint & some sort of light Here is one with an ACOG & a whole bunch of other crap Here is another question, what sling would have been appropriate on a mid-1980's M16A2? I have a canvas web sling just like the one used on the Garand, but black. Somehow I don't think that's appropriate though. |
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Marines are carrying the M16A4 in Iraq right now. Although the M4 Carbine is starting to show up (for example, I'm taking one over there). The M16A4 is simply a 20" flat top with the Knights M5 RAS. Most in Iraq have the ACOG/RCO, while most state side have the 6/3 carry handle. Often seen accessories are an AN/PEQ-2A, some have the Knights VFG, some have lights, although these are either unit purchase items or privately owned. A lot of Marines also like to put the PTT (Push To Talk switch) from their PRRs on the handguards (PRR- Personal Role Radio) When I draw my M4 next week I'll let you know what's on it. As for slings, the CQB solutions/specter sling are popular (or the cheap shit for sale out the back gate...), as at this point in time most Marines do not have the issue 3-point sling. M16A2 1980s sling- hmm, For the army the black "slient sling" would work, as far as I know the USMC has stated with the M1/M14 style since the 1940s (it's what the weapon comes with when it's issued to you). Nowdays the are made out of nylon web. hope this helps you. mrf2 |
My collection is similar, but mostly post war. Am real picky on my stuff, for example the Garand (actually the wife's) has the original uncut op rod. Will assume that you are similarly interested in your rifles being correct? Unlike the Garand you can't just get a surplus USGI M4 Carbine from the CMP. But you can get some of the parts. There are two types of Carbines in service. In general the M4 Carbine is issued to Infantry while SOCOM units purchased the M4A1. Bill Davis of Movie Guns has USGI surplus M4A1 Carbine uppers in stock. Judging from the sand packed in the ones I have gotten from him they have been to Iraq, or Afghanistan. www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=7031790 Here is a picture of mine: 
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Ekie: Nice M4, I hadn't really considered going the surplus route, but I don't think I want to go through the hassle of getting a Class III rifle. I like correct when I can get it, but I will take "correct enough" or "correct looking" & be satisfied. My CMP Garand has the original '43 barrel, & the front & read handguards are walnut & possibly original, but the stock is a fat post-war replacement, possibly birch. It's "correct" in the sense that that stock set is what it wore in its life as a post-war issue rifle, but I stained & sanded down the stock to make it look more WWII vintage. Looked at another way, even cleaning off the cosmoline of an old milsurp isn't "correct" since that was its condition the last time it was in government hands. In any event, I will be satisfied with something that looks like just about any of the rifles pictured here. I tend to think the 16" barrel with the fake M4 contour look better than the 14.5" barrels with the long welded brake. Like these The YHM rail kit is a lot cheaper than the Knight & it looks pretty similar, so I might go for that. Top it off with an Aimpoint M68 & I should be getting somewhere. Would a co-witness flip-up backup iron rear sight be appropriate? They even make a replica AN/PEQ-2 but that might be pushing the limits of "authentic" h.gif. I wonder if I can get ahold of a real one someplace... |
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