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Posted: 7/21/2005 7:02:13 PM EDT
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I was so frustrated today at the shop. Some one bought a Bushmaster A2 carbine built up by one of the other shops in town. He wanted me to help him out with the gun because the scope and laser were not working well. I looked at it and told him I didnt k now what I could really do with the set up as it was. He had some carry handle mount with built in rings. The forward ring had more rails on each side and the top. There was a SF handguard on it (by far the best accessory) with a very cheap bi-pod and vert grip mounted underneath. On the front sight there was another clamp on mount with rails on the left and right. On the right there was a inexpensive light, on the right, a cheap laser. The pressure switches for each were long spiral typles. They were wrapped around everywhere. He was complaining the laser and scope was no where near point of impact. I looked at the laser first. It was tight on the mount, but the mount was extra super lose on the front sight. Im serious, I could wiggle the mount a good 3/4" back and fourth. Took the front sight rails off and suggested he just leave the light and laser off. He wanted them on, so I put them on the SF handguards. At least they were stable. On to the scope. The mount was very loose. There was a stripped phillips head nut securing the A2 mount to the carry handle. Even if it werent stripped, I dont know where I would have gotten a screwdriver to fit in the middle of the handle? He told me to take a pair of pliers and loosen the nut that way. Sure enough, the nut was loose enough to do it like that. Again, I suggested he just leave that scope off and save for the scope he really wanted (Compact ACOG). He said, no, it was a good scope, and he wanted to keep it. I suggested a descent A2 mount (Leupold) and some affordable Millet low rings to mount the scope with. I put it on and bore sighted it for him. He was in better shape than when he came in, but in my opinion, the gun would have been a lot better off taking all the accessories (short of the SF M73's and vert grip) off. I really didnt want to even work on the gun with the accesories he had on it. They were of a much lower quality than we would sell where I work. My biggest problem was not trying to help the guy out, it was what will happen when he goes to the range and it doesnt work well for him. People will ask or he will say I built this gun for him and people wont want to come in to where I work for me to help. Word of mouth is a big part of the shop where I work. We try to build top quality guns that work the way they are supposed to. This isnt to say everything always does every single time, but if it doesnt, we will fix it pronto. Given the pieces this guy handed me to work with, there's not a lot I can really do. Anyway, he said he loved he way the gun looked (to each his own) but in the end, all his add ons just frustrated him when it came time to shoot. I hope the base and rings we got him will at least keep his scope zero'd. |
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Aww, dont worry about it. You did your best to try and educate him. He didnt want an education, he didnt want to be told his accessories were shit. He probably paid too much for the shit he had on there and doesnt want to eat the cost. These type of people always humor me, you mostly see them at gun shows. |
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would have told him to take it back to whoever sold him all the stuff along with the said suggestions. from what it sounds like i wouldnt want my name tacked to anything like that  i have the same problem sometimes where i work, im a mechanic/shop owner and sometimes we get car/customers that come in with the famous line " my brother's, uncle's shadetree mechanic hooked me up but now these other things are starting to act up......" then you look into it and suggest/quote them on what needs to be done and they take it back to the other guy, thats when said guy tells customer that i/we are trying to rip them off and what not and the rumor starts! i agree with lumpy, your too nice  i would have told him that all that junk is hindering the rifles capabilities/performance, wouldnt be a lie. |
You wouldn't be in business too long either!! 
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I feel your pain Neil. I went through many similar situations in my previous career. I sold musical instruments and gear (guitars, amps, drums, PA systems, etc.) for 12 yrs. During that time, I learned a lot about customer service. I had some customers that shopped with me the entire time I worked there. I had people come to buy stuff who later brought in their kids and their friends. Not to toot my own horn but I had a huge and faithful customer base. I also won multiple awards over the years for my outstanding customer service. If I knew as much as firearms as I know about customer service, I could shoot a gnat's eyelash off at 1000 yds with iron sights. Any time someone comes into your store, it is a chance to gain a new customer but I'd be curious as to why he didn't bring the rifle back to the shop that did the work in the first place. He gave them his money so they owe him the service (after the sale). You were very gracious to assist him and now there's a better chance that he will return to your shop for his next purchase. If he buys more gear at the other shop and comes back to you for service, don't help him. At that point, he's probably taking advantage of you. I would kindly tell him that he should go to the shop where he bought the gear because they owe him the service. The fact is the other shop may not be able to give him the service he needs after the sale. If that's the case, you need to point that fact out to him in the kindest way possible. To put it this way, he needs to know that your time is valuable. When sometimes makes the decision to spend their hard earned money in your shop, you will be there after the sale is closed to answers any questions he may have. The simple fact is that most people learn eventually. Sometimes it's the hard way (through bad experiences) or the easy way (through sage advice). I don't know what your level or experience is in customer service but if you ever want to vent, commiserate or get some advice, drop an IM or e-mail any time. |
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It's hard for some people to understand that if you buy quality the first time you wont have to buy it a second time, saves money in the long run Lots of deadbeat companys out there making money on crap like that Hate to insult the guy but as the old saying goes, "Can't make a silk purse out of a Sow's ear" With any luck, when he goes to the range it will shoot just alittle bit better and he can praise your efforts. Thats how it starts, the bottomless money pit of accuracy
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I've almost been that guy. After a broken plastic stock, 2 broken red-dots, and 1 wandering scope, I am finally come to the realization that to end the frustration, buy quality products. (i.e. no more NCStar). As it is, trying to get things sighted in, working properly takes time. I still have a free-floated upper that should shoot 1MOA, that's actually shooting 4-5 MOA. Is it me, the scope, the flash hider not on right?...dunno. It will take me some time to actually find the problem before I can fix it. Quite frankly, I just want to go out and shoot. |
Did you read that little part where Neil explained the double edge that deal was? Either way that could be a lose/lose for him depending on what that geek does. But hey, if I ever decide to open a business I'll turn to you bro so I can learn the in's and out's.
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What ammo -- My URX gun (submoa) does 4-5 MOA with some M855 |
 .........you obviously don't know SHIT about Lumpy196 
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I agree new-arguy is a damn nice guy  and he went out of his way to help the uniformed newbie who most likely will not appreciate the fact that Neil was trying to lead him to the proper path.Only thing you can do is tell the Customer up front that #1 you really don't want to do the work on substandard equipment but that if he realy insists that you'll do your best but with no guarantee as to satisfaction. |
M193. It's the first time I went out and shot it (basically got it zeroed). This weekend will be the ammo test. If not, then maybe the scope...maybe the muzzle brake, etc. etc. Maybe I just suck at shooting.
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Neil, I can understand the dilema you were facing. From the professional, experienced, and knowledgeable stand point, you had your reservations about the work your were requested to do with the equipment you had made available to you by the customer. On one hand, you wanted to deliver the customer a properly outfitted and functional weapon in return, but on the other hand, the customer had his own idea of what he wanted to do. In that case, all you could really do is to try and fine tune what he had. Hopefully, he will appreciate what you did and come to the realization that that are better ways of building a weapon. Like they say, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink". After deliberating for months, I bought my DPMS Panther Carbine a few months ago. I consulted with a local shop in Crestview, FL about some of the accessories for it. I did my own research in magazines, the internet, and talking to people who used some of the products. I wanted well constructed accessories and was willing to pay a good price to get a quality item. I believe in order to build a quality piece, you need to use quality products. Not everyone tends to take that approach. If I were a shop owner, I would have felt the same way you did. BTW, where are you in FL? her A.R.M.S.® #51 CV A1A2 S.I.R.® System EOTech Holographic Weapon Sight -Model 512A65 Streamlight® “Scorpion” Tactical Light Fobus Tactical Light Mount SpecterGear® M.O.U.T. Single Point Sling (Black) GG&G Sling Adapter VLTOR Carbine/collapsible Modstock - Model# ACK-2S (Black) Wilson Combat Tactical Latch |
| I witnessed this debacle. Neil was really patient and did his best for the fellow. Incidentally, this man came into the shop in his BEDROOM SLIPPERS. With the tangle of rails dangling off this rifle and scope, it looked like tinkertoys. New-arguy offered him a great deal on a used compact ACOG, but this guy said he what he had was a good scope. |
Look at it this way, anyone who comes out in public in their bedroom slippers is either crazy or elderly so if he didn't look like someone's grandfather then....well...you can come to your own deductions. |
Its the Gun Gallery in Jacksonville, FL. Matt, hahaha, thanks! I may take you up on your offer to vent... I've been trained and worked for many years as a waiter in fine dining restaurants, so I've been working at keeping people happy for a long time. I dont mean to honk my own horn, but, one of the nicest places I worked was AIP. A Pretty large resort. I was a front waiter in the fine dining room. If there was a problematic guest, or if something went very wrong for someone, they would always comp. dinner for the guests in the dining room. And they would always have me take their table. Its funny to me how many simularities I've found between helpig people build a fine, complete and satisfactory, fine meal and building a quality, capable and satisfying fine rifle. |
| I believe in the KISS method myself. I have purchased a few minimal parts for my rifles because I want quality stuff not a whole bunch of loose fitting, non functioning junk. Those asshats that sell that stuff ought to be made to buy it back at double the price. Companies like BSA, Leapers, and Simmons would go out of business quick. I know it's a buy at your own risk market but sometimes when these cheap products don't work then lives could be at stake. You take a guy who gets deployed and decides to take a cheaper piece of gear that he picked up a show to war with him and then in the moment of truth the part doesn't work or causes a malfunction then there is one more bodybag to fill. There was a young Marine I was talking to at the Fayetteville Gun Show back in February and he had bought a BSA scope from a dealer and mounts and was going to mount it on his duty rifle because the moron he bought it from told him it was what Marines were using in Iraq. I just laughed and asked how much he had wasted and he told me $200. I told him he got ripped off because the scope , Millet rings, and some unknown AR mount were only worth maybe $80 in all. I managed to help him get his money back and sent him over to reputable dealer's table in order to get a decent scope and mount. |
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