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Posted: 5/10/2005 12:26:31 PM EDT
| I went to the range today with some mil-spec ammo to do some testing. At 100 yards My groups averaged about 4". Now, this seems quite large to me. I have had plenty of time behhind plenty of rifles, but I have only tested one AR (my own). Given that I have only printed with one AR, I really have nothing to compare it to, so I don't know if that is a good group for this particular AR setup or if there is something wrong with the gun itself. My rifle consists of an RRA lower and a Bushmaster 14.5" M4-type upper. Also, my rifle was scoped. Any info would be great. Thanks |
| Its very hard to say without knowing much more than what you've stated. Generally, yes, the gun should be capable of better groups than that. Were you using anything to rest the rifle? What ammo were you shooting? 4" is probably about right for Wolf, but XM193 or Q3131A should be somewhere around 2" or less. |
Yeah, that's what I thought; around two inches or less. I was bench resting the gun on sandbags. The ammo was Federal XM193. I mean, I am not real used to ARs and I did not have the best rest, so it very well could just be me. I am a fairly experienced shooter, so I figure being unfamiliar with the gun would only count for an inch or so... Here are a couple of the groups I am talking about.   Any suggestions would be much appreciated. |
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If it makes you feel better, that's about what my groups look like. Ok, maybe a little smaller than yours, but that's still not bad with you being new to the rifle and all. ETA: Sorry, I had to go back and read your post again. I thought you were using irons. That seems a little big for a scoped rifle, but with practice you should be able to get it down another inch or two. |
Well, my gun's trigger is horrible. But again, that can only account for so much. I am a little dissapointed/worried about my gun. I mean, I am no world-class shooter to be sure, but I am capable of shooting better than that. Maybe I am spoiled. I mean, up untill I got my AR, the only centerfire rifles I have owned have been bolt-action target guns. Since I am used to light trigger pulls, I am guessing that my problem might lie in my AR's trigger. |
3", eh? So it is probably not my rifle (that's what I am really worried about)? Like I said, with some practice with the trigger, I think I could close things up a maybe an inch or so. I will have to pick up some of the Black Hills stuff. Too bad that don't sell it in any of the local gun shops. I will have to order some. |
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on the opposite side of the coin my BLIND ass gets some awesome 2" to 3" 20 shot groups with xm191 or M855 ammo. Same upper with Wolf ammo was grouping 1/2"-1" groups at 50 yards. It was doing quite well with Black hills and Hornady 75 grn.ammo at 100 yards. Not bad at all for a 14" upper and my blind ass behind the wheel. |
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Thats not bad shooting,based on the pixs of the targets, it looks like you need to practice your breathing methods. I bet, those groups would be 2" or less. I've got a few that can shoot out the bottom of a coke can with,but hand that same rifle to my brothern law and his boys, the groups look like the ones in the pixs. TG |
Actually, my groups with irons were about the same as the ones in the pics. In fact, that's why I mounted a scope thinking that they would surely improve. Hmm, maybe I should double check the scope and make sure everything it tight. There are two middlemen (one being a $9 carry handle mount) between the scope rings and my AR's upper reciver, so something being loose is a possbility. No doubt, getting a good riser to properly mount my scope is a must regaurdless of the cause of the big groups. |
Just a cheap BSA for now. As soon as I get out of school (I'll have money then) I might get an eotech, aimpoint or maybe even am ACOG (  ) for it. But right now all of my half-way decent scopes are on my bolt-guns (and they will stay there). I am going to take the scope off anyway. Like I said, I just mounted it to see if I could get better groups with it. Besides, I don't have any good rings, or even a proper mount for it.
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Here's 5 rounds (and some back-splatter) from my "parts is parts" LMT 14.5 w/ perm G6, 1/7, RAS II, ML2 topped upper, Bushmaster RRA NM 2-stage trigger lower. Ammo: Black Hills (blue-box) 77grn. SMK  This was shot from a benchrested position at 100 yards. As the 4 MOA red-dot covered all but the larger square, I'd say you need some further load testing to find a round which your rifle barrel likes, for with a good scope, instead of the red-dot, I suspect this group would be considered large for my rifle (while not too shabby for a SHTF rifle and ammo). Mike |
Actually, my rifle likes the polymer Wolf. It shoots as good or better than anything else I've tried, and it's CHEAP too! 
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My optics setup is horrible for this rifle. I have a BSA scope attached to a carry handle mount (with cheap rings) attached to a carry handle attached to my flat top upper. As it turns out, the lug on the carry handle mount seems to have worked its way loose enough so you can wobble it a little bit side-to-side (I think this might explain why all of my groups stretch out horizontally, but not vertically). I am probably going to go back to the range this week for some more testing. |
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XM193 and Q3131A, although great, reliable ammunition are hardly "match" grade. With my current LMT M4gery (and my previous non-LMT) my groups ranged from 1" to 3" with the XM193 and Q3131A. Match ammunition will do much better. That is assuming that conditions are right. -Jim |
+1 just get more practice. first time i shoot mine, it was pretty nasty grouping (plus i was using wolf ammo). but over the weeks, and after breaking-in the barrel and all, I'm getting more conistant. best group i got was 1.5" at 100. not bad for a newbie i think. so don't give up hope yet. PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE! |
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