AR Sponsor
Posted: 12/24/2004 12:27:59 PM EDT
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I've tried this a few times, and it works. I'm wondering if it's a secret or just not important enough to get that much attention. The guns I've tried this in are my 1911 pistol, a few AR-15's and a few AK-47 clones. Here's what I do: First, unload and clear all weapons. For the 1911: I put a drop of break-free at the front of the hammer when it's cocked so it goes down into the sear engagement surfaces. Pressing firmly on the rear of the hammer, I pull the trigger. The pressure is not hard enough to keep me from pulling, only makes the trigger much firmer. I do this about ten times and it results in a lighter, smoother pull. AR-15: I shotgun the rifle and place a piece of cardboard over the rear of the lower receiver. With the hammer resting forward, place a drop of break-free on the sear engagement surface which is a ledge at the bottom of the hammer. I take a pen and wrap a rubber band around both ends. The pen acts as a stop to keep the hammer from striking the bolt hold-open and damaging the receiver. I then use a medium-sized flat-head screwdriver wedged behind the hammer and using the cardboard-backed receiver as a fulcrum, leverage pressure on the rear of the hammer. WARNING!!! Do not use too much force. You can apply a great deal of pressure, but you don't need to. If you can't pull the trigger, it's way too much force. You're looking at stiffening the trigger pull significantly, not breaking anything. Again, pull the trigger 10 times with the extra force, resetting the hammer each time of course. AK-47: Remove the receiver cover, spring, and any scope you might have that can get in the way. With the hammer resting against the bolt, place a drop of oil on each side of the hammer where the sear engagement surfaces contact the hammer (or one side if it's a single-hook). WARNING!!! When you pull trigger, the hammer will fly forward with significant force to fling the excess oil all over the place. Use eye protection and place a rag or paper-towel over the hammer when you pull the trigger. Apply force between the hammer and disconnector with your flat-head screwdriver again. Remember not to apply too-much force, you can do damage if you do. The goal is to increase the pressure on the sear surface(s) of the hammer and trigger. Pull the trigger 10 times with the additionally pressure, resetting the hammer each time again. Why does it work? The extra pressure applied to the hammer smashes the mating surfaces together and greatly increases the pressure on any burrs, roughness, or irregularities. When the trigger is pulled, it burnishes or polishes the surface. The oil acts just like honing oil would on a sharpening stone in that it carries freed particles away from the area and allows the surfaces to move with less friction. Imagine rubbing two rough stones together. Eventually, they will mate and create a rather smooth surface on each. You are doing this faster. What you are doing is essentially accelerating wear on those surfaces and letting them mate together. On most guns, especially new ones, you should see smoother and lighter pulls. They are lighter because there is less friction involved in the total pull weight. What it doesn’t do: Well, for one it doesn’t hurt anything if you do it right. It doesn't change the geometry or spring pressure; it just breaks the parts in. Garage-gunsmiths often use dremmel tools, sharpening stones, sandpaper, files, hammers, chisels, hatchets, butcher knives, and vice grips to accomplish ‘trigger jobs’ at home. You don’t need to do this… leave it to a professional. If you want it smoother, try my method and save yourself a trip to the gunsmith when you break something. Note: I'm posting this on the AK-47 board as well because it applies. Hope they don't spank me for duplicate posts. |
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This does nothing to the sear edges. To be safe, the first time I did this I checked with a jewlers loupe. I couldn't see anything more significant that a few streaks where machine marks were being knocked down. The edge was unaffected as far as I could tell. Nothing more than shooting it does. Why not shoot it alot? Because I do and the pressure on the surfaces just isn't enough to smooth it out in the short term. Besides, I want the trigger to feel good WHEN I'm shooting it, not after 2 or 3,000 rounds. As for the comment by Greg... if you take the gun to a gunsmith, what do you think they are doing to the gun? In fact, it's a standard practice as the last step in a good trigger job to boost the surfaces together. If you don't like it, don't try it. |
| Actually , I have done this on several firearms in the past . I got the idea from George Nonte ( i his book Pistolsmithing by George Nonte ) . Not really lowering the pull weight , as stated above -it does burnish the mating surfaces together, thus giving a smoother pull . It works , 'nuf said . |
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Hey I tried it on my AR-15 that has only about 250 rounds through it. The trigger feels much better. I have the stock RRA LPK trigger (single stage). Although it NEVER felt gritty from the start, the trigger pull was too heavy. I found myself struggling to squeeze the trigger, causing me to shake the rifle. I did what Badger said to do, 10 times, and found that I could get a much better feel for the trigger. I did the same to my Vepr K (Uses a 2-stage Robinson/FSE FCG, single hook). and noticed the trigger surface being worn away from the hook... I had fired 1000+ rounds through this rifle and that part of the hammer NEVER had any of the finish worn off.  The trigger feel was very good from the start, but this made the 2nd stage "smoother". FWIW it didn't cost me anything, and if I had to wait until my AR-15 "broke in" for a better trigger pull, I'd have spent about $100 in ammo. |
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So you are saying that you would never buy a gun with a smooth trigger? Or one that has had a few thousand rounds through it? When the trigger gets all broken in would you put a brand new rough trigger back into it just to feel that gritty trigger pull? LOL gimme a break. |
I believe that he has saying is the cost savings of a used gun are not worth the risk of amateur gunsmiths, the same reson i would not buy a FAL or AR that had not been assembled by a factory.. or by me. |
| That's just unbelievable. So, you'd put it together yourself, but you wouldn't trust somebody else to put it together unless they were a 'gunsmith' or a 'factory.' Give me a break. These are mechanisms which are about 5% as complicated as a lawn mower. They aren't space shuttles, people. Gunsmiths are just regular people with tools and experience and THEY boost sear surfaces too! |
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All right I just tried it with a brand new Colt with 0 rounds through it. Before I did the procedure, the trigger had a funny feel to it. It was almost like there was a groove in the "trigger catch" (not sure of the correct term), but when I pulled the trigger it would pull a certain distance then almost stop until I added a little pressure. After completing the procedure, it does feel smoother, and that "groove" thing is gone. Basically I think it smooths out the rough milling marks quicker than putting 1000 rounds through the AR. |
| Interesting. I have done pretty much the same thing, but instead of applying pressure I applied flitz (or in extreme cases some fine valve grinding compound first) and ran the trigger about 10 times. Clean thoroughly and reassemble... Same result but without possibility of parts breakage and it would take a lot to over-do it. |
Think I will try it this way first. Thanks. Great ideas. |
Now, the AR-15 is a different story. You can cause undue wear on the smaller hammer and trigger pins and their respective holes. You can also smack the receiver or the bolt stop and loosen those parts up if you don't have a stop of some sort (pen in this case). You can slip with the screwdriver and gauge up the top of the receiver or the stock if you don't have a big or thick enough piece of cardboard. You can also wedge the screwdrivere in where it don't belong and bend or break something. Because the sear surfaces are smaller on the AR, there's a greater potential of shearing off the surfaces I mentioned above. Of course, actual damage is a remote possibility. For the amount most gunsmiths charge for a good trigger job, many of us can live with just a smoothing up which this gives you. That loss of creep makes the trigger feel 100% better. If you screw something up you're looking at, what, $40 for replacement parts at most? You can do that TWICE and still save money on the trigger job in the end if you get it right the third time. (but if you've screwed it up twice already, maybe you should lay off the steroids and stupid-pills for a while!) 
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| Boosting on a Fresh 1911 trigger job helps mate/square the small sear contacts, but on a AR, all you going to do is slightly round the hammer sear edge, and indent the trigger sear if the trigger is less that ideal hardened. Plus to add, wedging in a screwdriver is a sure way to enlarge/oblong the receiver FCG pin hole real quick. |
Talk about Voodoo/Witchcraft gunsmithing!!! it's all subjective, what feels smooth to one feels different to another. So what do you do to a brand new car to accelerate the break in process. And yet you have no quantifying data to support this like trigger pull weight measurement..... I can't wait to read threads under the troubleshooting forum for hammer /sear engagement problems or when someone reefs to hard with their screwdriver trying to repeat your little trick. if guys shot more and tinkered less they would be better shooters. but if you think its the greatest thing since sliced bread, go for it. I'm sure this will spread to all the Gun show's in North America as the end all be all... 
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 Absolute BS. The surfaces are square. The only way to round the edge off is if the geometry was wrong to begin with... that is somebody ground them wrong. They come from the factory hardened... if they ain't hardened right from the factory, your trigger goup will wear out quickly anyhow. As for 'oblonging' the holes... how? Do you realize the force that would be required to do this? This is 7075 T6 aluminum... as hard as steel steel. It does have wear charactetistics that aren't as good as steel, but its hardness is equal to it. It's not a beer can, dude.
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Either keep your trap shut or show me some empirical data which says it's negative to the trigger weight, creep, 'smoothness' or causes the trigger group to wear out early. Go ahead, I'm throwing down on ya. In the absence of empirical data to the contrary, I'll use my anecdotal evidence:
Positive experiences: 9 Negative experiences: 0 Neutral experiences: 0 I'm no rocket scientist, but this sounds like a good record for non-gunsmithing success to me. |
| Sounds simple to me, if you dont like badgers info, dont do it. Badger I know you have made it clear, but let me restate it, It doesn't take hardly any force with a screw driver. You can also simply use your thumb to apply pressure to the hammer. If you screw something up, not to sound like a dick, your either an idiot, or its a damn good thing you didnt shoot it cause it was fixing to break. The point here is you are not prying with alot of force, but simply applying a very little force. |
To the first part, HELL NO. To the second part, guns may be simple compared to spacecraft, but I've seen idiots royally screw up much simpler things, and as a result, to people who I haven't confirmed as being sufficiently capable of doing so, will not trust work on something that, when I'm using it, is right up against my head and running at 50,000+ PSI. [Edit to add:] Would YOU 'try out' some hand-loads from someone you don't know? It's almost the same with buying a gun, whose previous owner you've never had contact with. Oh, and thanks for the advice... I'll be trying it out on mine later 
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Actually, that 50,000 PSI is unaffected by burnishing the sear surfaces of your fire control group so your comparrison loses me there. As for buying used stuff, I'm going to have to let you have that point. Me, I can't afford to buy new everything all the time. Let's see, used house, used guns, used cars, used tools (pawn shops), used lawn mower. I'm not cheap, but I know that when you inspect a gun, you can GENERALLY figure out what's wrong with it quite quickly. I try fire the gun (except 22's), work the action, examine the locking lugs and sear surface of the striker, hammer, or what have you. Check for general wear and the condition of the stocks. Examine the bore for corrosion. Examine the muzzle for wear... What I'm getting at is that there are hundreds of horrible things people can and will do to their guns and I've seen thounds of them myself. But I don't think this comes close. I would buy a used pair of pliars and not worry if somebody used them as a hammer at one time so long as it passes my inspection. |
| I have done this on every shooter I have with good to great results. On exposed hammer guns (1911,S&W + Ruger revolvers ect.) I just put forward force on the hammer with my free hand and do this 25 to 50 times. No breakage or worn out parts on anything (50 plus weapons). Heard this from a guy about 15 years ago it sure does smooth things out . I also used similar techniques as yours on AR's,HK's, & AK's. |
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Haven't tried this on an AR, YET, but I AM familiar with the process, having read it myself in Nonte's Pistolsmithing book over 30 years ago, as applied to the 1911 and other pistols. And used it myself more than once on various pistols, both semiauto and revolver. For those of you too young to remember Maj George Nonte, he was a highly respected authority on firearms, and spent decades at the trade. He was no WECSOG hack, but an expert authority, widely known in the gun business. In the class of Elmer Keith, Col Chas Askins, Col Jeff Cooper, Jack O'Connor, Skeeter Skelton, Bill Jordan and other old timers. People whose writings I grew up on. A tremendous store of experience and knowledge, lots of which are still applicable in the 21st Century.  Lonny |
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I tried the poor peasants trigger job on a new AR and the difference is real. The pull is now cleaner. There is almost no play in the trigger to start, but it was hard to distinguish the break point as it seemed to drag. Now its a clean little pull, hold and click. Thanks for passing on the helpful procedure 
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