Battle Zero > AR Discussions

Posted: 12/19/2004 10:23:42 AM EDT

Not sure which forum to post this on.
How high should my groups be (approx) at 100 yds/met.
Should be dead on at 25yds right?

Thanks

Posted: 12/19/2004 10:55:04 AM EDT

[#1]

At 50 yds, point of aim should coincide with point of impact (this is the Santose IBZ).

Posted: 12/19/2004 10:57:45 AM EDT

[#2]

Improved Battle Sight Zero

Posted: 12/19/2004 11:37:58 AM EDT

[#3]

+1 on the 50 yard battle zero. 50 and 200 will be poa=poi and anywhere bet 0-250-300 will be within 2" of poa....so

Posted: 12/19/2004 11:51:47 AM EDT

[#4]

Quick question:
I use the improved battle sight zero. It says that 50yd = 200m, at 8/3 -2 clicks, and POA *should* be POI at 300 m when set to 8/3, right?

So, in theory, if I'm zeroed at 25m = 300m (military zero), and back up 2 clicks, I get Santos' 200m zero, right?

Posted: 12/19/2004 12:05:11 PM EDT

[#5]

POI at 50 yards with small aperture, rear sight set to 8/3-2 will be the same as large aperture at 8/3, from my understanding

Posted: 12/19/2004 12:17:39 PM EDT

[#6]

I just sighted my EOTech in so the bullet hit exactly where I aimed it at 50yards.

That's all I have to do, correct?

Posted: 12/19/2004 4:50:07 PM EDT

[#7]

all you have left is to test it at 200 and 100.

Posted: 12/19/2004 4:57:56 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Not sure which forum to post this on.
[/qutoe]
Optimally the Optics forum - but it's good here too.

How high should my groups be (approx) at 100 yds/met.
Should be dead on at 25yds right?

Roughly 6" depending on ammo, barrel length, and the height of the sights/optic over the bore.

Best options IMHO is zeroing at 50y (see above posts & links)

Posted: 12/19/2004 4:58:41 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
So, in theory, if I'm zeroed at 25m = 300m (military zero), and back up 2 clicks, I get Santos' 200m zero, right?

No because 25M does not give you a 300M zero. 25M gives you a 375M zero.

Posted: 12/19/2004 6:10:15 PM EDT

[#10]

Forest,
Thanks for the advice.
Mike

Posted: 12/19/2004 6:19:59 PM EDT

[#11]

25 m = 300 m for an M4 with M855 ammo:

Posted: 12/19/2004 6:55:26 PM EDT

[#12]

tag

Posted: 12/19/2004 6:57:35 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
25 m = 300 m for an M4 with M855 ammo:

Why near the 300m mark does the rate of bullet drop seem to lower - the tiny change in the arc of the graph seems to show that. I thought gravity was a constant.

Must have been a serious updraft between 250m and 300m when that data was taken.

Posted: 12/19/2004 7:23:51 PM EDT

[#14]

the chart looks a little fudged to me

Posted: 12/19/2004 9:00:02 PM EDT

[#15]

Whether or not the chart is fudged, I don't know. But it comes from the Army's FM on Marksmanship.

Posted: 12/19/2004 9:23:26 PM EDT

[#16]

Probably cause its really slowing down by that point.

Posted: 12/19/2004 9:49:38 PM EDT

[#17]

But anyway, that's all a tangent. Let's pretent I have a 300 m zero (whether it actually is, or is not, I don't know). Now, if I go two clicks down, do I effectively have the same zero as the improved battle sight zero?

Posted: 12/20/2004 8:05:13 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Whether or not the chart is fudged, I don't know. But it comes from the Army's FM on Marksmanship.

It is fuged, they know they screwed up but don't want to change the zero for some reason.

This is what a 25M zero of M855 with an M4 really looks like (the purple line is the zero using the Army defined procedure - yellow is the 50y zero):

Posted: 12/20/2004 8:06:43 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
But anyway, that's all a tangent. Let's pretent I have a 300 m zero (whether it actually is, or is not, I don't know). Now, if I go two clicks down, do I effectively have the same zero as the improved battle sight zero?

If you have a true 300m zero then yes 2 clicks down is a 200M/IBS Zero.

FWIW the Marines are now zeroing at 36y with their M16A2s and getting true 300M zero.

Posted: 12/20/2004 8:35:42 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Quoted:
But anyway, that's all a tangent. Let's pretent I have a 300 m zero (whether it actually is, or is not, I don't know). Now, if I go two clicks down, do I effectively have the same zero as the improved battle sight zero?

If you have a true 300m zero then yes 2 clicks down is a 200M/IBS Zero.

FWIW the Marines are now zeroing at 36y with their M16A2s and getting true 300M zero.

This is what I was going to say. BTW - the 1,000" BZO was done at 8/3 +1 which was supposed to give you a 300 yard BZO at 8/3.

Now they're using 36yrds at 8/3.

I still prefer the IBZ.

Posted: 12/20/2004 2:31:57 PM EDT

[#21]

Interesting. Any reason why none of your graphs cross zero at 50 yards, not even the yellow IBZ, which is supposed to be zeroed at 50 yards?

ETA: Thanks for the info. This is good stuff.

Posted: 12/20/2004 5:27:23 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Interesting. Any reason why none of your graphs cross zero at 50 yards,.

It does cross at 50y. Kinda tough to tell with the photo (which was a screen grab). Pull up the spreadsheet the graph was grabbed from and you'll see it crosses at the 50.

Posted: 12/20/2004 6:07:52 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
It does cross at 50y. Kinda tough to tell with the photo (which was a screen grab). Pull up the spreadsheet the graph was grabbed from and you'll see it crosses at the 50.

Alright, then it must just have something to do w/ where the labels are the the image quality, etc. If I may ask, where'd you find that data, so we can see the spreadsheet?

Posted: 12/21/2004 7:00:49 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Alright, then it must just have something to do w/ where the labels are the the image quality, etc. If I may ask, where'd you find that data, so we can see the spreadsheet?

I generated it based on Data I've collected and published data in the various military TMs.

The entire spreadsheet is available from www.MD-AR15.com in the Documents section. The Technical Documents contains the file AmmoTrack.XLS.

Other note - the tic marks are not at 25y intervals.

Posted: 12/21/2004 2:01:29 PM EDT

[#25]

Cool, thanks!

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