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Posted: 8/10/2004 8:38:03 AM EDT
| FoxNews reports the XM8 will start being issued as early as next summer...How long until us civilians can get our hands on one? |
 Just kidding. Cobb, There is no way the XM8 or the M8 will ever be available to civilian sales. Army owns the desing to the gun and their intention is to keep this for military use only. unlike the M4 where as Colt own the design and we can all share the same firearms used by our military other then FA, with XM8, Army started off making sure the desing belongs to the Army and they will dicidate who will have the gun. I know for sure the civilain market is not on their list. |
As this is basically a G36 - how can the Army claim it's their design? HFG Also, where is the money coming from? |
Actually you can do the conversion yourself with the SW kit if you are handy with tools - I just started one myself. so far $850 for slightly used HK SL8 (just bought), and I need to order the $600 kit which includes G36 Buttstock(can have kit added to become full folding after September), pistol grip/FCG housing, full G36 style bolt head, hi-capacity mag well which allows use of M16/AR15 magazines. Then I will add the polymer service dye kit ($38) G36 handguards ($55) and 6061 G36c short picatinny rail ($135)to replace the ugly full length rail and mount my Comp Ml2. All in all should cost me about $1600 and a little elbow grease to fit the magwell conversion unit. The SW kit makes your US parts count legal if you use all US Mfg mags (body, spring/follower, baseplate counts as 3 parts). What I will then have is a rifle I can shoot all day, in 5.56mm, and due to the gas piston, have NO fouling back into the action other than the bolt head. Then I can skip the mandatory 2 hour cleaning session I have with my ARs everytime time I go to the range and spend 30 minutes cleaning it. Don't get me wrong, I love my ARs, I was brought up on M16s after all, but they are very dirty weapons to shoot. They will still be shot, just not as frequently perhaps. Later, if I can snag some XM8 furniture (like 10 years or more later) I can have basically have a semi-auto version of the M8. this is what my sl8/G36 hybrid will look like when done, If I do right:  |
| It's not going to happen.... The Army will not buy that gun for issue and if they do..they will get the shit sued out of them...Where was the bid for this gun? Who's bid on it bedies H&K? Funny how alot of the military testers who worked on the early development now work for H&K...I'm sure it's all just a coincidence... |
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Right, and next you are going to say the G36 is a total failure. It's already proven to be a fine battle rifle in use by many nations, whether or not the US military adopts it or not. in the form of the XM8. I can see this thread is going to turn into another M16 rules/G36 sucks debate. I like the M16 as a battle rifle, but I think there many rifles out there that have strong points as well like the G36/TAR21/AK74 and so on. I personally think we would be better served by retrofitting to a gas piston upper with hammer forged barrel for the M16/M4, and take that platform well into the 21st century, but who knows what those in charge of procurement dollars will finally decide. |
Total failure? No, but FAR from the success that HK and others predicted it would be. A variety of problems, along with the over-all ergonomics, have kept the G-36 from being widely adopted. -Troy |
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Whether yall want to admit it or not, the XM8 is a fine weapon. And to be honest, I think the XM8 is a sweet looking weapon. However, its downfall is that its not as customizable (what's the word I'm looking for?) as the M16/M4. I just hope the military puts it through the tests before they make their final decision. IMHO, I would still prefer the M16/M4 and trust my life on it. edit to add: I believe the XM8 would have a big advantage if it stepped up to a 6.8 SPC, or something of that nature. |
All true, but the early variants of the M16 also had a variety of teething problems, it's all part of weapons design evolution as I see it. I think neither the M16 nor the G36 have reached the end of their development yet. |
It might have some G36 internal inside, but the overall design is of an Army design. This is what i learned in Vegas at the NDIA conference from the guys at the Project manager. the money is definitely not coming from HK. |
Ditto. ********* The SCAR sounds like way to go: that it's privately-developed makes for a better chance of availability in the free market. Thus, I can almost imagine a scenario whereby private owners are the envy of enlisted grunts who have to carry the M8 in the sandbox. Maybe "M8" means that it melts after 8 mag dumps? |
Yeah, I was looking at some pics of French Foreign Legionnaires in Congo and was surprised to see some had M4 carbines as well as FAMAS bullpups. But the elite GSG-9 uses G36s and MP5s almost exclusively. I read the IDF actually prefers the M4 over the new Tavor TAR21. I think they are all good weapons and it is very much an individual preference. |
Funds was redirected to ISO OIF2. Funds will be availabel again for the project. XM8 has gather way too much steam. |
No one has used it in country because you have been able to see any picture of the units or personnels testing the rifle. I personally saw a group with two XM8 heading to the sand box test firing the XM8 on a range south of my location on around Jan. 04. Wes of MSTN has a picture of a contractor posting with a XM8 carbine in country. He got that from a spec ops personnel testing it over seas. |
Modular! And easy to clean! And easy to build! And user friendly! And the XM8 looks gay!! Seriously, I wish they would just kill the XM8 project. If they want a G36, they should just buy damn G36s. We know it works, they know it works. Oh, and the 12.5" barrel (who's published velocities match an 11.5" barreled AR, don't ask me why) totally screws over any chance of fragmentation for any real distance beyond close combat/house to house ranges. |
Do you think maybe this thread belongs in the "The Armory" forum under HK? I can never figure out why guys post XM8 threads on "AR Discussions". 
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I can tell you for sure that Spanish and German Special Groups use the G36 in many configuration. |
Yeah, with an Eotech. Thats says alot to me about HK's optic setup. Nothing like having three scopes and no BUIS.  
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The G36 has myriad rail configurations that (unlike the flat top M16) are easily swapped out with an allen wrench and you can put any combination of BUIS you want on them. They are easily as modular as the M16 (KAC even makes a rail-infested handguard SIR type system for it) and can have as many rails as you can put on an AR. You can forego the factory optics/carry handle and put the rail only such as the G36c has, and put whatever optics and BUIS you want. More flexible than the M16, really, from an accessory standpoint |
Try using an EOTech or an ACOG with a G36. The former will not cowitness (unless you use KAC sights and rail) and the latter is nearly unusable due to eye relief issues. I've tried VERY many optics setups w/ the G36, and the only thing that's worth a crap is the Aimpoint in a low mount. The HK Dual optic blows. -Cap'n |
| Has H&K worked out the fragile stock,receiver melting,gas piston trunion breaking p[roblems yet?Maybe the military should look at Bushmasters carbon model#4 and fit a KKF gas piston to it and we wont need the XM8 and still have a weapon that will use spare parts,mags already in inventory.We are at war and could use the money for this bull shit project else where. |
Could you go into the problems of the HK optics?
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Why did I know someone was going to post a pic of the AimPoint in a low mount? It's the ONLY acceptable optic, and only in that configuration. Note that I said MOST optics... and nearly anything else but the AimPoint in a low mount won't cowitness or allow the use of the irons, and will be too tall. And, you still have the issue of the stocks breaking (requiring replacement of the entire receiver), and the melting issues. Did I mention the huge, bulky mags? No thanks, you can keep it. -Troy |
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Could you go into the problems of the HK optics? Yes I have one: The 3x scope collects something like dirt inside and is not really 100% waterproof for long time use and the adjusting system is just shit – a screw without any clicks. Some solders say that it is even not really shockproof. Definitely the optic diameter is that small that a water trop on the right place will block you from seeing anything. The red dot system is at the first look very nice but that’s it. In reality during daytime use it works but as soon as you need the battery (which is very often empty) and it is getting dark the point is much to strong. Anyhow the diameter of the point is something like 7” at 100 yards – in my mind too much. The few angle is less than for any other red dot scope and as the surrounding plastic is very thick you need much more time to find your target than with an Eotech. I think just for normal military use the G36 is not so bad, but the scope system is bullshit. What we see very often is that the G36 will shift the point of impact, as it gets hot or humid or something else. |
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