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Posted: 8/9/2004 4:13:50 PM EDT
| I recently convinced my wife that I need an AR15 type firearm. I dont know how long my window of opportunity will last. Would like it to be carbine. Flat top. Thinking about removeable front sight. Probably an Olympic but I am open to others. Any suggestions? DPMS? Should be an entry level AR that can be used in a varity of situations. $600-800. I was looking at the PCR16 with FIRSH hand guard, but would also like a stainless barrel.. I had thought I would have more time to find the right AR. |
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Don't WASTE your money on Olympic Arms. You'd be better off lighting your cash on fire. Do whatever it takes to get the extra two hundo for a good rifle. I wouldn't mess with DPMS either, to be honest. Even if you only buy your rifle in pieces (which you can easily do with an AR type rifle) it will be worth it to wait an extra month of penny pinching to get a COLT, ARMALITE, or Bushmaster. I was saved from making the OLY mistake when I was a newbie, so I try to help other guys out too! |
+1 I have a RRA mid-length... If you can wait till sept 14 and get an "unbanned" model. If not, makes no difference... RockRiverArms is quality: Tight fitting upper/lower, national match 2 stage trigger, and a houge grip... for less than a or equal pirce of a bushy. I reccomend going to a gun show because you can get them cheaper for the most part... I talked with the guy for a while and I got the price down to $690 |
PCR-4 20" A2, skip the fancy stuff for your first gun... Once you've got everything down, then start building your 'Multi-tool plus kitchen sink rifle'.... And NO, Olympic isn't any worse than the others, so long as you avoid the Plinker & GI model... The "ArmaLite, Bushmaster or Colt' guys are a bit absurd on this one (Come on, you can actually reccommend buying a COLT? After the BS they've pulled?), there is no preceptable difference in quality between one A2 HBAR and another, except for one perticular company (Vulcan/Hesse) that can't keep from screwing up an AK product (if you can screw up an AKM design, you can screw up anything), let alone an AR.... From personal experience, I know people who have nothin but trouble with the 'Big Name' guns... I am quite convinced that if they had an Oly they'd be having the same problems & blaming the 'cheap gun'.. My Oly Arms A2 has been used, maintained when I feel like it, and never jamed thru thousands of rounds of crappy plinking ammo. I paid $550 for the Oly lower (bought local) & complete-minus-lower parts kit. Having had ZERO malfunctions, using thousands of rounds of Wolf & Barnaul .223, I can honestly recommend Oly from personal experience. I am VERY glad I didn't blow $300+ on a roll-mark & warranty I'll never need. |
If you never bought it, how do you know it was a 'mistake'... With the exception of Hesse, SW/BW/etc, and Century, no one really screws up a gun build & stays in business... There are plenty of people here who have no problem with them... I normally don't give a rip about products, but when I see people being told something that runs this far contrary to my experience, I kind of have to chime in... After all, for the price of 2 Bushmasters or ArmaLites, you can get 3 OA products that WILL work just as well.... |
Bushmaster!  Okay or armalite If you get a RRA make sure it's got a chrome lined barrel. Oly sure has more complaints about problems here than any other brand. I saw the broken bolt from an Oly at a shoot this summer. I don't think Oly chrome lines anything. Also if you do get an Oly stay away from the POS plinker and at least get the plinker plus which apparently costs the same but has forged instead of cast parts. |
First off... WELCOME to the site.  Secondly. if you have the opportunity, at least play with both a 20" and a 16" before you buy anything. If you can actually shoot both, then GREAT. But if you are limited to just shouldering them in the gun store, then that's fine too. I know you said you wanted a carbine, and that's fine, i just wouldn't want you to over look anything you might like. I am +1 with the flat top idea. A flat top makes ANY AR much more versatile. I read these boards for 3 years before I bought one and I finally went with a Bushmaster . www.bushmaster.com/ Now, knowing what I know NOW, i would have a custom upper built BY some one like MSTN, or ADCO, or one of the many excellent dealers we have here. BUT, you said price was important. So it might not be the best idea to go all "bling bling" at once.  the most important question to ask is.. "what do i intend to do with this rifle?" I see you said "Should be an entry level AR that can be used in a varity of situations". But which situation do you see yourself doing most? plinking? tactical training? varmint hunting? other? etc etc? The answers to THOSE questions will guide you better to your decision. I wouldn't say there was anything WRONG with wanting a stainless barrel, but I prefer chrome lined barrels for the "Should be an entry level AR that can be used in a varity of situations" kinda gun. Like Troy says, "Go Chrome, or Go Home". Chrome lining (in the chamber and bore) is a durable coating, that both resists wear and rust. Now, the following is my personal opinion: Keep the fixed sights, especially the front sight. The front sight base on the better AR's are forged steel, and set in place with taper pins(colt, bushmaster, LMT). They are TOUGH as hell, and not going anywhere. Most importantly, they come from the factory that way. Which means you don't have to spend EXTRA money on a flip sight. Secondly, in my humble opinion, you might want to learn to use your iron sights first... #1 because your life might depend on it one day and #2 you said you wanted to keep expenses at a minimum, and things like Eotechs, LaRue mounts, Aimpoints, and ACOGs will make the "CHA-CHING" sound REALLY fast. I personally made the mistake of grinding down a front sight... and now i regret it. I wish i would have just kept it. oh, and by the way, these are things you will get used to: all your base are belong to us. i like pie. +1 and most importantly, you have the black rifle disease, there is no cure, resistance is futile. have a good one. Stainless |
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#1) A barrel length of 20" or less is a carbine. #2) Bushmaster, Armalite, Rock River Arms = Chevys, Fords, Dodges. Each company offers a feature or two that the others do not. For me, it's a Bushmaster M-4(a)(3). Also, be careful, my friend. Once you have any of the AR variants, you WILL be hooked. There will be many accessories knocking on your door soon after the arrival of your showpiece of American freedom... 
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Thanks to all of you. Your comments help a lot. I have a C&R and consequently have a safe full of long guns. Like I said it will be used for in a variety of situations. varmit (woodchucks) and at the 200/300 yd range. Besides, I think they look way cool. Please keep your suggestions coming. It is good to hear all sides. |
Buy a comlete lower, stock and complete upper seperately and put them together yourself, super easy and you'll save $$'s. |
Honestly I like the government profile barrel (skinny under handguard, fat at the end 1/9 or 1/7) but I think you'd have to special order that upper from Bushmaster. |
What do you have against DPMS? |
| The latest problem I had with them was the really poor chrome bolt carrier I got from them through JT. If you would have seen it you would understand my discontent with DPMS. Back a few years ago I got a flattop carry handle made by them, same thing.....total crap. None of the forging or casting (who knows with them) marks were cleaned up in side the handle. It had sharp edges on the inside, it was bad. |
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I've not regretted purchasing a Bushmaster XM15E2S. It's like an M16A2, but with a different fire control group, semi-auto only, and the barrel has a 1/9" twist rate. I wanted a rifle like the one I served with. Scope mounts are available for the carrying handle and they see over the top of the iron sights. Some are "see-through" types with tunnel or channel that lets you use your iron sights while the scope is mounted. I can install, remove, and re-install my mount without loss of zero. I suggest a chrome-lined barrel. It's for peace of mind. I doubt you'd ever notice the 1/2 m.o.a. difference a stainless steel "match grade" barrel would make until you become a world class match shooter. My Bushmaster's 20" HBAR barrel has given me 1 - 2 m.o.a. results, if I did my part. When I bought it, few bullets weighing more than 62 grains were available. The ability to shoot a good variety of bullets was something I learned to value after buying the rifle. You can start with a basic rifle, get some range time and gain experience. Eventually you can purchase, or trade-for, something that meets your criteria. Firearms are like golf clubs and sewing needles. There's a gun for every shot you'll want to take. So, my suggestions for a "first purchase" AR-15 type rifle would be a semi-auto clone of the M16A2, or a fixed length buttstock rifle with 16" chrome-lined barrel, with factory iron-sights and a detachable carry-handle. Riser-blocks are available to mount a scope high enough to see over the front sight assembly. Purchase quality magazines, seven or more 30 cartridge mags and two or more 20 cartridge mags. See the ammunition forum for what people prefer to shoot. Good luck and enjoy your rifle. Sincerely, Craig |
Ditto that… Welcome to the board. I personally prefer Colt and Bushmaster, that said, a Bushmaster is within your price range. You should be able to pick up a nice little 16-inch A3 carbine for about $800. You might consider waiting a few weeks to get your rifle or just pick up your lower at this point. In a few weeks I’m pretty sure you’ll be able to have all the nasty evil parts on your new rifle that you can’t have right now. http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/Images/pcwa3s16.jpg |
I would go ahead and get the Bushmaster as your first AR. I have had good experience with the Bushmasater parts on my Frakenstein AR  . I would recommend buying a lower and upper but, a complete rifle might be better for your first rifle.If you are at all interested in getting a upper and lower then sticking them together I would recommend getting an LMT M4 Upper Assembly from Here and a lower from Here. For the lower I would recommend getting it without the stock assembly so you can place a collapsible stock after the AWB's death. The M4 profile AR is better in my opinion. Just my recommendation on a rifle that is better then a Bushmaster, that you could easily put together. If you can clean the gun, you can put it together. Oh you will have to get a BUIS (Back up Iron Sight) or an A3 with the LMT M4 upper; bolt and carrier too. My $0.02 Oh and Welcome |
Here I think the most important moral to owning any AR is a quote I heard, "You take care of it, it will take care of you." |
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My experience with an Olympic Arms GI-16: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=193785 Made link hot-=definitely worth reading-- Aimless |
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I ordered a complete lower from RRA for $270 from a local dealer, now I have to wait 6-8 weeks for it to get here. I'm going to get the standard RRA midlength A2 upper from Adco, $400. So for $670, I'm ready to hit the range. I bet you can find a better deal, seeing as you don't live in IL. |
I really hate to say this but, I think you may have gotten ripped off on the lower. Check This site out. |
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