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Posted: 7/8/2004 11:15:06 PM EDT
| I know that someone makes a barrel threading tool. I tried a search but could not locate it. Any tips? |
thats gotta be a bitch of a job...... |
Nope. I have used their kit. I was a novice with a good bench vise, aluminum barrel jaws, a bottle of cutting oil, and Dynasystem's 3 piece kit. It was a piece of cake, their dies cut the steel like butter, and it all turned out great. The only thing you have to be careful of is to follow the instructions, and not cut the threads to far along the barrel. If you are good at following written instructions, and have the tools mentioned above, on a standard barrel, nothing to it. Don't know about an HBAR though. |
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What type of barrel did you thread? From your description it must have been a LW (pencil bbl.) or at least an A1 profile. I say this because you mentioned that you've never threaded an a HBAR, and there's no difference between the muzzle diameter of an A2 (Gov't) profile and an HBAR! I've turned down and rethreaded many (nominal .701" muzzle) HBARS and A2 barrels on a lathe and single-pointed the 1/2-28 threads to fit standard AR15 style FH's and breaks. I've encountered 4140, 4150, and other unspecified CM steel, plus 416R stainless. This was all done on large professional full-service machine shop lathes, and I've had years of experience. You have to reduce the muzzle diameter to a nominal .500" in order to be able to thread it 1/2-28. Steve is absolutely right when he says that it must be a bitch to do with a hand cutter. That's an awful lot of stock to be removing with a hand tool! Please understand that I'm not calling you a liar, I just am amazed that it can be done as easily as you report. There was a thread about this very thing on this forum several months ago, where contact info for this company was supplied. I sent them an e-mail to enquire about their product and to ask the very same questions that I've raised in this post. Believe me, I was not insulting nor did I call their veracity into doubt. I merely wanted them to give a bit more info than was on their site. I never received any type of reply, which makes me believe that they had something to hide. |
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I will be using the dynasystem kit to thread my AK muzzle 14/1 LH (AFTER THE BAN EXPIRES). I don't see any problems doing this, as there is only about 1 1/2 mm of material to remove, and the threads will bottom out on the front sight base. If a person was to use the 1/2"- 28 threading kit on an ar15 HBAR, now that is a different story. I don't think I would attempt it without having the barrel turned down to about .5" by a professional. But if I'm allready paying a gunsmith/machinist to turn down the barrel, why not pay a little more to have threads cut? I think these kits have there place, for certain applications.YMMV |
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It was an early A1 target crown, I think OD was .61. I'll call them and see what they say about larger OD barrels. Edited to add: I called them a few minutes ago and spoke with Rich. He was helpful in clarifying this. He said that basically the die will work with a .50 O.D. diameter barrel, so that must have been close to what I had. He said you would have to get the barrel turned down to that first before threading with the kit, so it might be easier for those of you with HBARs to bring it to the gunsmith. It's too bad, the kit worked really well. |
You are wrong about them, they have nothing to hide. Some companies simply do not do email very well. I called and they were very helpful on the phone, and they have an absolutely quality product. Rich did confirm what you said, that it works with a .50 OD barrel. I was sure I measured .61 and it worked fine on mine, but anyway that's what he said. By the way I got them on the first call, and they were very courteous. Anyway that's settled. So if anyone has a .701 or .750 like Str8shot said, you have to have it turned down first to .500, so it may be easier to just send it to your gunsmith. |
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To properly reproduce the threads on an AR barrel it MUST be done on a lathe. A conventional hand die will not cut full depth threads right up to the shoulder on the barrel where the lock/peel/crush washer seats. Dies just don't work that way. You can physically run the die up to the shoulder, but the last full-depth thread is going to be about 3 to 4 threads forward of that shoulder. Therefore, when you screw on your muzzle device it's probably not going to reach the washer before the threads bind-up. One last thing.......hand dies are really difficult to get started straight, particularily on material as hard as a gun barrel. Once started crooked, the die will continue to cut crooked. The result is a muzzle devise that is not parallel with the bore centerline. Another reason to use a lathe to cut the threads. |
The dynasystems kit uses a thread alignment tool (TAT) which inserts into the bore. It is impossible to thread it crooked when this is used- that's the beauty of the kit. the die starts cutting threads coming right off the alignment tool threads so it is perfectly aligned with the bore.  The die cut all the threads full depth and the shoulder came out clean - there were no partial depth threads. with all due respect unless you have used the kit you are just speculating on what you think would happen. |
After you get to the end of the threads, you take the die off, turn it around, and feed it down to the bottom and finish the last couple of threads. Only one side of the die is tapered. This is how I've always done it (on other stuff, not rifle barrels). Also I think someone already posted that the barrel threading dies have a rod that goes down the barrel to make sure they stay straight. |
| I would still rather do it on a lathe. Using suppressors I need to know that the threading is flawlessly and perfectly aligned - I just don't trust anything else but maybe I'm old school. If the gizmo works, that's great, I just have a hard time risking $1000 of gear on it. |
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RE: Alignment For a flash hider or brake, you can use a drill press to get the alignment "right" (probably as good as the TAT). Make sure your table is plumb to the drill axis, chuck up a dead center (or big drill bit), and use that to center the chuck directly over the muzzle (you'll have to clamp the barrel up through the bottom of the drill press table, parallel to the drill axis). Withdraw the jaws of the chuck all the way, and use the face of it to guide the rear of the die. There's no way I would use this procedure for a mount for a can; there will be errors, and the errors have a long lever arm in a can. A lathe is the only way to go for that. |
I'm suspicious too. And, I use the word suspicious to be nice. How can a thread-cutting tool simultaneously form threads and form the shoulder upon which the FH seats? It’s irrelevant how much material is being removed by the threading tool because threading tool is moving toward the chamber as it turns. So, how can the die form a clean-cut, flat-faced shoulder? The instructions state that the user should continue forming threads “until the die bottoms out against the front sight.” Huh? I think this kit uses snake oil for a lubricant too. |
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Ive used the Dynasystems threading kit to thread a 5.45x39 SAR-2 for a 1/2x28dpi to 22mm adapter. the outside dia. of the barrel was .514 so it didnt need turned down before the threading operation. It was not problem at all and came out perfect. took about 30 minutes doing it slow and careful...had a friend hold the rifle upright while we did it(no vise) the so called "TAT" or arbor makes it so easy!(they had to make a TAT for 5.45 for me as they are not interchangeable with anything else...they fit tite in the bore) they said dont need special oil ...30 weight will do so I just used mobil1 For my application, and starting with a barrel that didnt need turned down...this thing worked great and have had no regrets buying it. and they ship fast. I dont work for these guys and have nothing to gain by saying it works when it dont(im a law enforcement officer/life long shooter) |
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I have used the kit on two rifles, and they both came out perfect. You'll notice those who say it doesn't work well have never even laid hands on one of these kits much less used one to thread a barrel,but yet somehow think they know exactly how it will turn out. I would call that an armchair gunsmith. If an individual has used a lathe to do this that's great, but they should not criticize something they have never tried unless they are just trying to stir things up, because criticism without experience in what is being criticized is not constructive, it's worthless. I don't know why I even bother to type this. Those I know who have used the Dynasystems kit, every one of them, say it works very well, as do I. If critics want to call it "snake oil" without having a clue how well it really works, fine. It's a free country, I couldn't care less. |
People who have real experience machining barrels give their opinion on the subject, but you say that they are nothing but "armchair gunsmiths" because they haven't used some contrived little tool? A tool that uses an insert into the bore which can damage the crown and/or the rifling. A tool that is clearly made for do-it-yourselfers like me and that no real gunsmith would touch in a million years. But the guys with experience working on barrels, who have the real tools that are required to do the job right, are the "armchair gunsmiths?" It may be a great tool, but I'm beginning think it isn't the only 'tool' in this thread. |
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I don't thread bbls, and have never tried the kit. But it does look like the guys with all the tools don't want to accept that MAYBE, JUST MAYBE someone has built a better mouse trap. The lathe guys can call it like they see it, then _DR calls it like he see it, and he's a tool? That sounds sort of hypocritical to me. Seems to me that it would be kewl if one of the kit guys would loan his kit to one of the lathe guys so they could try it out and give an unbiased EDUCATED opinion on the kit. Anyone want to give that a try? I think that would end some of the back biting, and maybe let the WECSOG guys know that there is an alternative. We all know that no tool does it all, this one included for sure, but it may fill a niche. |
I don't get into pissing matches, so I won't counter your insults. My opinion is based on the information found on the website which naturally makes me suspicious of this product even though I am interested in such a kit. I swear these questions are in no way intended to insult you or anyone, _DR: 1) Did you "continue turning the handles until the die bottom[ed] out against the front sight?" (Is one to thread the barrel all the way from the muzzle to the front sight base? Shouldn't one be suspicious of the product if one is instructed to do such a thing?) 2) Did you mount a FH or a brake? 3) Does the operation, using the kit and the instructions, form a shoulder? 4) Did you use a peel washer with your installation? (I ask because of my suspicion of the operation not providing a shoulder and not supporting the use of a "clocked" barrel end feature, such as an A2 FH, without using a set screw. ) 5) Have you seen a factory/Government/Standard threaded barrel, and in you opinion, does the kit duplicate the Standard? 6) Are you familiar with the term "shoulder," as it pertains to a thread standard? I ask these questions with sincerity in my heart, and I'd appreciate answers. I am interested in the kit. Pictures of the finished threads would be especially helpful. Thanks, John |
Most gunsmiths I know don't criticize a product or tool out of hand without testing it or reviewing it. I have yet to see a negative review. As I said, it's a free country, and you are free to insult me as you just did. If it makes you happy, go for it. glad I could help. |
see edits in blue above |
| I allow for the fact it may work. However, I KNOW the lathe works. I'd like to hear from someone who threaded for suppressors using this tool. F/S and Muzzle brakes are not nearly as critical and one could get buy with less tolerance, but using suppressors makes tolerance a much more critical issue. I don't think it's a BETTER mousetrap, just a different mousetrap that may possibly get close to the real thing, but will never be due to certain minor issues. Even professional barrel threaders shun dies when they could employ them more effectively using their equipment. If you can't afford the services or a lathe, and are not threading for a suppressor or extreme accuracy, I don't think it's such a bad little gadget for the do-it-yourself shade tree mechanic. |
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