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Posted: 3/30/2004 9:18:37 AM EDT
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Hello gentlemen, I am new here and am excited to be allowed access to the wealth of info that im sure you all have. I have always wanted an AR-15 and am now looking to buy one come this summer. However I am not a varmint hunter so caliber will not likely be a .223. I need a cal. that I can claim I will use for deer hunting. That way I can justify it to myself and others. Otherwise I will have to get into varmint hunting but I am not sure where to go for that so I have not gotten into it yet. It's funny that the same round used against men is only useable for rodents and such in the sporting community. Kinda insulting really. I was at Cabelas and saw a .50 beowolf conversion AR and thought that might be cool. However I don't know how that would work on a deer. It looks like an exciting round and the gun was all polymer. It was very neat and bad ass looking but I knew too little to know if it was any good. My most important question are the two following. 1. Without getting into a peeing match, which company is the best to go with while still considering price? Or even simpler are there any to stay away from? 2. I have a Bushmaster catelog and I see that there a TON of different variations. It is VERY overwhelming and I have little clue where to start. My desire is to have a gun that looks completely militaristic but still can be reasonably used for deer hunting. What does a .308 cal. run that fits my description? What really is overwheming is that with all of these different options I have no clue how they are classified except for "match" vs. the more self defense types I guess. I hope these are not too general of questions, if so then please forgive me because I am new and I will try to seek my info throughout this informative site. |
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Quoted: My desire is to have a gun that looks completely militaristic but still can be reasonably used for deer hunting. With your personal caveat of caliber in mind, you're looking at either ArmaLite or Bushmaster for one of their .308 offerings. I've not handled a Bushmaster .308 as of yet but the ArmaLite AR-10 comes in numerous variations... Check out their website: [url]www.armalite.com[/url] I've gotten to do some range time with an Alexander Arms .50 Beowolf and I'd more than just suspect it would put a hell of a hole in one of our scrawny Michigan deer... [;)] It's funny that the same round used against men is only useable for rodents and such in the sporting community. Kinda insulting really. I certainly don't want to restart the inevitable debate over deer hunting with the .223/5.56, but the round is quite useable for a great deal more than rodents... and it is legal here in Michigan for deer hunting, but shot placement and proper ammo is critical... the two deer I took last fall with my AR didn't seem to notice being shot with a 'rodent' round, both dropped on the spot... [;)] Welcome to ARFcom and Black Rifle Madness... edited kause I kant tuype... heh |
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.50 Beowulf should drop a deer in its tracts no problem but the rounds is not a long range round (drops off pretty fast past 150 yards). If you didn't plan to take long range shots that caliber should work great. .308 would be a great long and short range caliber. Lots of ammo out and plenty of knock down power. DPMS, Armalite, and Bushmaster have .308 AR-10 based guns. Keep in mind AR-10's cost more than AR-15's. There is also a .300 WSM (winchester short magnum) upper that would offer plenty of power. Can't remember who is making this but somebody else will. |
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Quoted: Also Olympic is coming out with .223 WSSM, .243 WSSM, 7mm WSSM and a .30 WSSM. I would opt for any of the top 3, and I see Wall Fart had some .243 WSSM in their store in TC. I see that Olympic Arms is coming out with a .223 WSSM and .243 WSSM but I can't find anything on their site about the 7mm and .300 WSM (Winchester Short Magnum...WSSM is Winchester Super Short Magnum). |
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Oh there is also, um I think it's 458 socom, which is similar to 50 beowulf, supposedly they both shoot similar to 45-70. The AR-10 from Armalite is a 308, most run around $ 1300, the "Eagle Arms" model is probably around $ 1000, basically the same thing with a shorter warranty. I am not sure if they are still in production or not, I know there was a change in what Eagle is producing this year, but don't remember the specifics. AR-10s are also available in other calibers, .243 and one of the short .300 magnums, off the top of my head. The Bushmaster B-10 is similar, no one has those for sale that I know of. DPMS also sells a .308 caliber AR style rifle. The only one I saw had, I think, a kind of a heavy bull barrell. I heard they shoot very well, but the mags were a little finicky. They run under $ 1000. 6.8mm uppers and 6.5mm uppers are around. I really know little about them. They are, I guess, attempts at larger caliber military cartridge that uses the same AR platform. I would assume that they are fine for deer and that magazines and ammo might be something that could be an issue with them. As states Oly has .223wssm and .243wssm uppers, there are some rumors that the barrels burn out quickly, intersting idea though and I would be interested in seeing one and shooting it. I would assume these are appropriate for deer. I would (and did) go with an Armalite AR10 as things stand at the moment, though I just got it and have not hunted with it. |
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Thanks for helping me out on this. I am curious if I am missing out on something by not going with a true AR-15 .223. Also I am still unsure what types of things make the different versions different. Is it just barrels and handgaurds or are they different in other ways? Anyway thanks for the help. |
| You said you want an AR-15 that you can claim to shoot deer with so you can justify having one. Who needs justification? If you want one, get one and do whatever you want with it. If you really need a deer rifle, get a nice bolt action in a proper caliber. If you don't really want one to shoot deer or varmints, get one that is fun and inexpensive to shoot. I shoot mine 2 or 3 times a month, about 400 rounds each trip and love every minute of it. I'm not into varmint hunting and don't plan to start. If anyone ever tried to make me justify owning it, I'd tell them to mind their own business. Hopefully I don't sound like an asshole, but it seemed like you were unsure of what you really want. AR-15's are fun and you'll really enjoy whatever kind you get, I just hope you'll get the one that you truly want, rather than one you think others will understand. Welcome to the site, and good luck. |
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I'll agree with Gomer on that one. Go with a .223 and ENJOY! Cheap to shoot with a plentiful supply of high-cap mags. I used your logic when I built my 6mm PPC upper... would work for deer and be great for varmints. You know how often I've hunted with it? NEVER! In fact, it's kind of a pain to shoot (I'd rather SHOOT than RELOAD!). The first few times shooting it where great... 1/2 moa is pretty cool! But that gets boring fast (for me, anyway). So... it sits and collects dust. I LOVE shooting my 5.56 and 10mm ARs! Scot |
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To be honest I am trying to justify it to myself. Being that I am a college student I am poor, until summer comes around but by then I have a list of expensive new toys that I want. So if I can justify it to myself it is much more likely that I would get one. A .223 rifle is hard to justify unless my aunts farm has a varmint problem that I am unaware of:) Thank you for your opinion though it is well taken, and no you do not sound like an ass hole. I apreciate anybody trying to give me reason to buy a gun. |
| Hahah I just dropped $1300 on a bolt gun rig with the justification that "Hey I can hunt with a .308!" In reality, I doubt I'll ever hump 12 lbs of rifle around to hunt anything but paper... but you know, there's always the possibility of a super secret tactical sniper operation right?? LOL |
| I see where you're coming from. I haven't been out of school long myself. If I could have afforded an AR-15 then, I would have gotten one in a second. You work hard in school and you're under a lot of stress. You have to reward yourself for your hard work, and what better reward than a stress-relieving toy that lets you get outside and have fun? I know what you mean by having to justify it, though. My philosophy for justifying the toys I buy is that I can't take the money with me, and I'm going to enjoy myself while I can. Just my opinion, though. As far as my opinions of AR-15's, I would advise that you study the Bushmaster catalog you have and see which one will meet your needs and that you like the looks of. One mistake I almost made when buying mine was not getting the detachable carry handle. I highly recommend getting an A3 model that does have the detachable carry handle. That allows you to attach optics. At first I didn't think I would want a scope, but now I do. Hang around on this site looking at pictures long enough, and at somepoint, you'll probably want one too. [:)] |
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