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Posted: 2/4/2004 4:59:27 PM EDT
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Any advice on breaking in a Chrome lined barrel? Thank you, |
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Direct from Bushmaster's website..... [url]http://www.bushmaster.com/faqnew/content_by_cat.asp?catid=100[/url] After firing a couple hundred rounds, the chrome lining will "polish out" from its light, flat gray, factory-new look to a brightly reflective, polished appearance. During this break-in period, excessive cleaning with solvent or brush should be avoided as that will only prolong the time (and number of rounds) it takes to achieve the final "bullet polishing" of the barrel. I suggest starting with a dry barrel, no oils in barrel. |
| I would use a clean shooting ammunition so as not to embed any dirty particles into the chrome lining. I would also avoid rapid fire until after the first cleaning. About a round every 15-30sec should be OK though. That is how I broke in my barrel. Have a blast:) |
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I shot 300 rounds in 30 minutes through my brand new COlt 6400. I bump fired most of it and the rest of the time was spent reloading my four 30 round mags! Then a week later I read something like this and was not too happy. Oh Well! I dont think wolf would be a good choice; I believe they use a varnish or lacquer on the bullet that sticks to some barrels or something; probably better to avoid it or ask a pro. |
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Trey I e-mailed Bushmaster (about a year ago) and asked them about wolf and they told me no problem, and to fire at least 500 rds before even thinking about cleaning it and I would be good to go. I'd send their reply but have changed computers and don't have it anymore. I fired closer to 700 rds before cleaning the first time. It really wasn't very dirty in the barrel. Good ole CLP. My bushy is extremely accurate and will digest anything I want to shoot in it. I've put 4K rds through it in past year and it cleans up quick and easy. Damn good barrel !! Damn good gun. Have fun. shooter100 |
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Quoted: Any advice on breaking in a Chrome lined barrel? Thank you, Mk, I don't wanna be disrespectful to the other guys who gave you advice but don't do any of that. You can: 1) Get David Tubbs' fire lapping bullets (if you reload) and do what he says to do, or 2) Go to www.savage.com and use their proceedure, which is basically: 1) Fire one round and clean the bore (do that 10 times) 2) Fire 3 rounds and clean the bore (do that 5 times) 3) Fire 5 rounds and clean the bore (do that 5 times) Check-out that web site for the particulars. I've got a new JP15 due in next Mon. or Tue. and that's what i'm going to do, w/the following addition; i'll use JB paste (see your local gun shop) between step 1,2, and 3 above. I've done this with ALL my rifles and they ALL shoot 1/2 MOA (or better), even my 16" "V" Match Bushmaster w/LCXM193. If you break that bad boy in correctly, it will shoot better, and be easier to clean. Don't let these guys pull your chain LOL By-the-way, i assume by your question that this is all new to you so here's more. Be sure you have a good nylon covered Dewey cleaning rod, a brass jag (don't get any cleaning rod tips that have a patch loop), breech rod guide, and a chamber brush. You may have noticed that in the beginning that you can hardly get a jag w/a patch on it through the bore. That's because the foweling just ahead of the chamber is really bad. Most guys just switch back to the bore brush and (saw away). That's where the JB paste comes in. Do what it says to do on the label. Also, i use that chamber brush on a drill. What ever you do, don't use that Commie-pinko Wolf crap. |
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I don't wanna be disrespectful to the other guys who gave you advice but don't do any of that. I don't mean to be disrespectful to you, but your "break in procedure" will do more harm than good on a chrome-lined barrel. Bushmaster's procedure is the right one-shoot 200 rounds or so to polish the chrome. Your procedure will only delay that process. Edited to add: Read [url=http://yarchive.net/gun/barrel/break_in.html]THIS[/url] When Gale McMillan was alive he knew a thing or two about rifle barrels. That thread is a fascinating read, as the myths are shattered straight from the horses mouth. [i]"I inspect every barrel taken off and every new barrel before it is shipped with a bore scope and I will tell you all that I see far more barrels ruined by cleaning rods than I see worn out from normal wear and tear."[/i] -The late Gale McMillan |
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Quoted: I don't wanna be disrespectful to the other guys who gave you advice but don't do any of that. I don't mean to be disrespectful to you, but your "break in procedure" will do more harm than good on a chrome-lined barrel. Bushmaster's procedure is the right one-shoot 200 rounds or so to polish the chrome. Your procedure will only delay that process. Edited to add: Read [url=http://yarchive.net/gun/barrel/break_in.html]THIS[/url] When Gale McMillan was alive he knew a thing or two about rifle barrels. That thread is a fascinating read, as the myths are shattered straight from the horses mouth. [i]"I inspect every barrel taken off and every new barrel before it is shipped with a bore scope and I will tell you all that I see far more barrels ruined by cleaning rods than I see worn out from normal wear and tear."[/i] -The late Gale McMillan I don't want to be disrespectful to you too. I have a McMillan sniper rifle that i broke-in my way 10years ago. That bad boy still shoots 1/2MOA. My way polishes the bore in 50 shots. How do you figger that, that's a "delay". That's where the JB comes in. Once you do it that way, you can clean it with a minimum of brushing. By-the-way, i guess you didn't know it, but McMillan rifles are no longer held in such high esteem however, their stocks are excellent. That's a famous quote from Gale (God rest his soul) but he's not talking about proper cleaning techniques. That's why i told the guy about cleaning rods, rod guides, jags etc. I just went back and read the "this" link. I can't believe you sent that to prove your point; it proves my point LOL. All that about tool marks, pores etc is correct, that's why you clean it so often in the break-in and why you use JB. Funny there's post in there about .300WinMags ... after having my Sendaro cryo treated at -300 degrees, i broke it in using my method and it also shoots 1/2MOA. Bench rest, and Camp Perry shooters change barrels much more often than this guy (in the original post will) because they shoot many more rounds and they shoot over longer distances. To me, it's absolutely nuts to shoot 2-300 rds through a rifle (w/o cleaning it)thinking that you are POLISHING it? LOL |
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TM15, Uh, you're new here, so you probably need some translation....................... Here, "break in" refers to something you do to a rifle meant to be shot alot, offhand, rapidly, at large targets, with cheap ammo, and a chrome lined barrel that will never shoot under MOA. You're talking about breaking in a rifle whose prime concern is accuracy. Two very different things. |
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Quoted: TM15, Uh, you're new here, so you probably need some translation....................... Here, "break in" refers to something you do to a rifle meant to be shot alot, offhand, rapidly, at large targets, with cheap ammo, and a chrome lined barrel that will never shoot under MOA. You're talking about breaking in a rifle whose prime concern is accuracy. Two very different things. Ar, Uh ... Thanks, you're right, but what else is an ex-sniper to think? LOL Actually all i wanna do now-a-days (until they call me back) is shoot head shots on multiple IDPA/IPSC targets at 0-300yds, with a pulse, from "cover", faster than the other guys. I gave the guy my best advise, it's on him now. Maybe we should ask him what he expects from his brand new rifle. He might just want extreme accuracy. |
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Quoted: Quoted: TM15, Uh, you're new here, so you probably need some translation....................... Here, "break in" refers to something you do to a rifle meant to be shot alot, offhand, rapidly, at large targets, with cheap ammo, and a chrome lined barrel that will never shoot under MOA. You're talking about breaking in a rifle whose prime concern is accuracy. Two very different things. Ar, Uh ... Thanks, you're right, but what else is an ex-sniper to think? LOL Actually all i wanna do now-a-days (until they call me back) is shoot head shots on multiple IDPA/IPSC targets at 0-300yds, with a pulse, from "cover", faster than the other guys. I gave the guy my best advise, it's on him now. Maybe we should ask him what he expects from his brand new rifle. [red] He might just want extreme accuracy.[/red] Nope. If he wanted extreme accuracy, he wouldn't have bought chrome-lined. What sort of 'ex-sniper' doesn't know this? And what sort of pistol (heck, rifle for that matter) does one use to make head shots on IDPA targets at 300 yards, 'with a pulse' and 'faster than the other guys'? |
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I just went back and read the "this" link. I can't believe you sent that to prove your point; it proves my point LOL. All that about tool marks, pores etc is correct, that's why you clean it so often in the break-in and why you use JB. Funny there's post in there about .300WinMags ... after having my Sendaro cryo treated at -300 degrees, i broke it in using my method and it also shoots 1/2MOA. Bench rest, and Camp Perry shooters change barrels much more often than this guy (in the original post will) because they shoot many more rounds and they shoot over longer distances. To me, it's absolutely nuts to shoot 2-300 rds through a rifle (w/o cleaning it)thinking that you are POLISHING it? LOL Again, we are comparing apples to oranges. A chrome-lined milspec barrel is a different animal than a hand lapped custom barrel. The manufacturers agree, over cleaning a [b]chrome lined[/b] barrel will do nothing but prolong the "break in" process. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: TM15, Uh, you're new here, so you probably need some translation....................... Here, "break in" refers to something you do to a rifle meant to be shot alot, offhand, rapidly, at large targets, with cheap ammo, and a chrome lined barrel that will never shoot under MOA. You're talking about breaking in a rifle whose prime concern is accuracy. Two very different things. Ar, Uh ... Thanks, you're right, but what else is an ex-sniper to think? LOL Actually all i wanna do now-a-days (until they call me back) is shoot head shots on multiple IDPA/IPSC targets at 0-300yds, with a pulse, from "cover", faster than the other guys. I gave the guy my best advise, it's on him now. Maybe we should ask him what he expects from his brand new rifle. [red] He might just want extreme accuracy.[/red] Nope. If he wanted extreme accuracy, he wouldn't have bought chrome-lined. What sort of 'ex-sniper' doesn't know this? And what sort of pistol (heck, rifle for that matter) does one use to make head shots on IDPA targets at 300 yards, 'with a pulse' and 'faster than the other guys'? |
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shooter101 was it something similar to this? Subject: RE: Bushmaster A3 20" barrel Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:53:05 -0500 From: [email protected] To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Steel cased ammunition We have also had conflicting reports on using Wolf or any steel cased ammunition in our rifles. The steel cased ammunition has a preservative lacquer coating on them. This usually will not affect our rifles with the chrome chamber and bores. But, I have had people ask why it will not work in one rifle while it works alright in his friends rifle. Some chambers are slightly tighter than others and it makes extraction difficult with the lacquer coating while the same rifle will cycle flawlessly with brass cased ammunition. We do not recommend breaking in a new rifle for the first 300 to 400 rounds with it as it is somewhat under powered. If you are going to use it then we recommend trying a few hundred rounds before buying in bulk. We have never received a rifle for repair because of premature wear from using the steel cased ammunition. We recommend cleaning the chamber with a chamber brush and solvent after use to prevent any problems. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: Administrator Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 5:32 PM To: TSEmail Subject: Bushmaster A3 20" barrel I got this off of a nother gun board a while back and saved it for future reference. I guess their only qualm is that it is underpowered. It seems like shooting wolf first would only slightly prolong the "break in" period, if anything. Any ideas? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: TM15, Uh, you're new here, so you probably need some translation....................... Here, "break in" refers to something you do to a rifle meant to be shot alot, offhand, rapidly, at large targets, with cheap ammo, and a chrome lined barrel that will never shoot under MOA. You're talking about breaking in a rifle whose prime concern is accuracy. Two very different things. Ar, Uh ... Thanks, you're right, but what else is an ex-sniper to think? LOL Actually all i wanna do now-a-days (until they call me back) is shoot head shots on multiple IDPA/IPSC targets at 0-300yds, with a pulse, from "cover", faster than the other guys. I gave the guy my best advise, it's on him now. Maybe we should ask him what he expects from his brand new rifle. [red] He might just want extreme accuracy.[/red] Nope. If he wanted extreme accuracy, he wouldn't have bought chrome-lined. What sort of 'ex-sniper' doesn't know this? And what sort of pistol (heck, rifle for that matter) does one use to make head shots on IDPA targets at 300 yards, 'with a pulse' and 'faster than the other guys'? Um ..... What sorta "Team AR15.com" guy doesn't recognize a rifle stage in a Tactical 3 Gun match? Perhaps you are unaware that head shots on IDPA/IPSC targets, with a pulse, are no big thing. If my JP15 doesn't get here in time, i'll be doing just that (like i do once every month) with my 16" "V" Match w/LCXM193 at 200yds this next Sat. Oh .... by-the-way, that's 2 head shots on each target. That's actually why i ordered a JP15, they can almost double tap w/those bad boys. Do some more research before you jump in on something you seem to know very little about. Um ..... Who said anything about pistol shots at 300yds? LOL you're loosing it guy. Um ..... I call 1/2 MOA out of a chrome lined barrel extremely accurate ... you said " ... a chrome lined barrel that will never shoot under MOA ..." You sir, are trying to elevate this to a conflict. Perhaps you should stop posting re: this subject. |
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Quoted: Ar, Uh ... Thanks, you're right, but what else is an ex-sniper to think? LOL Actually all i wanna do now-a-days (until they call me back) is shoot head shots on multiple IDPA/IPSC targets at 0-300yds, with a pulse, from "cover", faster than the other guys. I gave the guy my best advise, it's on him now. Maybe we should ask him what he expects from his brand new rifle. He might just want extreme accuracy. IDPA/IPSC is pistol only, no rifles or shotguns and no 300 yard shooting. Fire lapping barrels is only good on unlined barrels and only worth it on barrels used for extreme accuracy, not casual shooting. Why burn up %20-%30 of your barrel life just so it shoots .1 inch closer. This process is only used for competition rifles where that .1 inch would mean the difference between taking home the pot or left with nothing in a match. Just shoot the damn thing. Chrome is too hard and smooth to have the burrs that unlined barrels have. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: TM15, Uh, you're new here, so you probably need some translation....................... Here, "break in" refers to something you do to a rifle meant to be shot alot, offhand, rapidly, at large targets, with cheap ammo, and a chrome lined barrel that will never shoot under MOA. You're talking about breaking in a rifle whose prime concern is accuracy. Two very different things. Ar, Uh ... Thanks, you're right, but what else is an ex-sniper to think? LOL Actually all i wanna do now-a-days (until they call me back) is shoot head shots on multiple IDPA/IPSC targets at 0-300yds, with a pulse, from "cover", faster than the other guys. I gave the guy my best advise, it's on him now. Maybe we should ask him what he expects from his brand new rifle. [red] He might just want extreme accuracy.[/red] Nope. If he wanted extreme accuracy, he wouldn't have bought chrome-lined. What sort of 'ex-sniper' doesn't know this? And what sort of pistol (heck, rifle for that matter) does one use to make head shots on IDPA targets at 300 yards, 'with a pulse' and 'faster than the other guys'? Um ..... What sorta "Team AR15.com" guy doesn't recognize a rifle stage in a Tactical 3 Gun match? Perhaps you are unaware that head shots on IDPA/IPSC targets, with a pulse, are no big thing. If my JP15 doesn't get here in time, i'll be doing just that (like i do once every month) with my 16" [red]not chrome-lined[/red]"V" Match w/LCXM193[red]not exactly match ammo[/red] at 200yds[red] not 300[/red] this next Sat. Oh .... by-the-way, that's 2 head shots on each target. That's actually why i ordered a JP15, they can almost double tap w/those bad boys. Do some more research before you jump in on something you [red]me?[/red]seem to know very little about. Um ..... Who said anything about [red]pistol[/red] shots at 300yds? LOL you're loosing it guy.[red]you said ID[/red][blue]P[/blue][red]A[/red] Um ..... I call 1/2 MOA out of a chrome lined barrel extremely accurate ... you said " ... a chrome lined barrel that will never shoot under MOA ..."[red]most won't shoot under MOA, and I generally call .5 MOA out of a chrome-lined barrel BS, short of actually seeing the groups.[/red] You sir, are trying to elevate this to a conflict. Perhaps you should stop posting re: this subject.[red]Don't like conflict, but You're making claims that are beyond your credibility. I will concede that I could be wrong about that. I certainly realize that it is possible to head-shoot a target at 300 yards, even under stress, but I have never seen statistical proof that chrome-lined AR's can be expected to shoot .5 moa on a consistent basis, regardless of break-in procedure. And someone with 20 posts who claims to be an ex-sniper doesn't always get the benefit of the doubt when they start spouting off about shooting 2 MOA (i.e. head shots at 300 yards) "with a pulse" from what I assume is an unsupported position. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Any advice on breaking in a Chrome lined barrel? Thank you, Mk, I don't wanna be disrespectful to the other guys who gave you advice but don't do any of that. You can: 1) Get David Tubbs' fire lapping bullets (if you reload) and do what he says to do, or 2) Go to www.savage.com and use their proceedure, which is basically: 1) Fire one round and clean the bore (do that 10 times) 2) Fire 3 rounds and clean the bore (do that 5 times) 3) Fire 5 rounds and clean the bore (do that 5 times) Check-out that web site for the particulars. I've got a new JP15 due in next Mon. or Tue. and that's what i'm going to do, w/the following addition; i'll use JB paste (see your local gun shop) between step 1,2, and 3 above. I've done this with ALL my rifles and they ALL shoot 1/2 MOA (or better), even my 16" "V" Match Bushmaster w/LCXM193. If you break that bad boy in correctly, it will shoot better, and be easier to clean. Don't let these guys pull your chain LOL By-the-way, i assume by your question that this is all new to you so here's more. Be sure you have a good nylon covered Dewey cleaning rod, a brass jag (don't get any cleaning rod tips that have a patch loop), breech rod guide, and a chamber brush. You may have noticed that in the beginning that you can hardly get a jag w/a patch on it through the bore. That's because the foweling just ahead of the chamber is really bad. Most guys just switch back to the bore brush and (saw away). That's where the JB paste comes in. Do what it says to do on the label. Also, i use that chamber brush on a drill. What ever you do, don't use that Commie-pinko Wolf crap. All if this barrel "breaking in" is just theory. What evidence do you have, that if you did not break the barrel in with this procedure that it still would not be capable of 1/2 minute of angle? Every gunmaker or barrel manufacurer have their own ideas. Hart barrels says: .... What do you recommend for barrel break-in? "We do not believe that a break in procedure is required with our barrels. If you follow our normal cleaning procedure, outlined in this brochure you should not have any problems with your new rifle. You always want to clean your rifle as often as your course of fire will allow. If you have time to shoot one and clean, that would be fine, but we personally do not feel it is necessary. Please be sure to only use the cleaning solvents listed in our cleaning instructions." I just have a gun built with one of their barrels and I did no break in procedure, guess what it shoots 1/2 moa. If I did a break in procedure would it still? Yes Then there is Kenny Jarrettt who is a firm beliver in breaking in a rifle barrel, his guns are very accuracte as well. This stuff is all theory. I have plenty of custom rifles built, they all shoot very tight groups and I never do this break in procedure. There is a lot more to an accurate rifle besides the way you break in a barrel and just because you use this procedure is going to make it shoot 1/2 moa, I don't think so. To each his own, but I disagree with your theory, due to personal experience. |
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Look at accuracy by isolating the most important factors. Its like a tolerance stack. The gun/barrel might be good for 1/2 MOA. The ammunition might be good for 1/2 MOA. The wind, even a gentle 5 MPH can give a .1 or .2 MOA drift. As the barrel gets hot it can vary .2 or .3 MOA vs. cold. Add it all together and you get 1 1/2 MOA easily. An inch and a half at 100M. Now add shooter error, even from sandbags, at .2 to .5 MOA and you have almost 2 MOA potential error and you are working with minimum differences. Put it all together and I'm not sure how the average guy would even test his rifle and come up with valid results. And the factories sure aren't swearing to much. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Any advice on breaking in a Chrome lined barrel? Thank you, Mk, I don't wanna be disrespectful to the other guys who gave you advice but don't do any of that. You can: 1) Get David Tubbs' fire lapping bullets (if you reload) and do what he says to do, or 2) Go to www.savage.com and use their proceedure, which is basically: 1) Fire one round and clean the bore (do that 10 times) 2) Fire 3 rounds and clean the bore (do that 5 times) 3) Fire 5 rounds and clean the bore (do that 5 times) Um...didn't he say it was a [size=6]chrome-lined milspec[/size=6] barrel? Sheesh...next up, Advanced Tactical Doily Folding, brought to you by a real, live, ex-sniper! cynic |
| TM15, I would like to point out, that while i have seen documentation on barrel break-in improving groups, the barrel being discussed is chrome lined...it has a RC hardness of 60+ and to be polished to the same degree as a normal barrel (RC 26-32 according to most manufacturers) it would have to be fired literally hundreds of times. The proper break-in for a chrome barrel, is indeed to polish it out via massive amounts of firing (no, do not bump fire, excessive heat is NEVER GOOD). But do not clean every other shot either, I would say clean at the end of each range session and dont worry about it : ) have fun. |
| I run about 50 patches of JB Bore Paste down the pipe to smooth out the irregularities present in all new barrels (which trap copper). That's the only time I use JB. Seems to work well, my rifles treated this way are quicker to clean and have less copper fouling. |
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Quoted: For any 5.56 bbl, chrome lined or not, I try to shoot "slow fire" target style as not to over heat the bbl for the first 200rds. Clean after a day at the range, and I'm good to go. True match target bbls are another matter. Yeah-what he said. And as a former military small arms instructor, and armorer, and last but not least, a graduate of the USMC Designated Marksman school (III MEF, SOTG) I'd like to extend a hearty [BS2] To TM15, for his insightful post about the break-in procedure for a STEEL, not CHROME-LINED barrel. Poser. |
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Quoted: Ar, Uh ... Thanks, you're right, but what else is an ex-sniper to think? LOL Actually all i wanna do now-a-days (until they call me back) is shoot head shots on multiple IDPA/IPSC targets at 0-300yds, with a pulse, from "cover", faster than the other guys. I gave the guy my best advise, it's on him now. Maybe we should ask him what he expects from his brand new rifle. He might just want extreme accuracy. [>:/][>:/][>:/] |
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